E-Cigs second hand "smoke"? Safe or not for the non smoker?

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
[quotem.cancer.gov...://m.cancer.gov/topics/factsheets/asbestosOriginally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

I have been a smoker, I have not been a smoker, so I have heen around both smokers and nonsmokers.

Your being ridiculous if your claiming your wife got dizzy from others smoking an electronic cigarette, it is about a hundred times more likely she stood too fast after eating, when the blood rushes to your digestive tract, and so got a moment of lightheadedness.

I believe your just one of the types to complain about anything someone else does that you dont like, and are attempting to make a mountain out of a mole hill over nothing.

You didnt seem to mind the asbestos you were putting in the air every time you hit the brakes in your car, which is hundreds of times more dangerous than smoking any amount of cigarettes.

So just remeber next time you wanna get all preachy about a non issue, your driving alone has caused more asbestosis related deaths than cigarettes, so stop driving your car, or stop complaining until you do, as your activities are way worse for more people than every e cig out there combined, though I am sure you already know tha. Like most humans though, your activities are just fine, it is everyone elses that are the problem.

I still gave you a star and flag, as it was worth knowing, I just find your position on the subject to be hypocritical at least.

You know that brakes are asbestos free now a days, right?

Non-asbestos brake pads were introduced in the 1990s. At first they were not suitable for use in heavy-duty vehicles. As a result, asbestos brake pads were not suddenly eliminated, but slowly phased out.

And no I don't complain about anyting other than things that are forced upon me and my family like this......I make the decision to not breathe this crap in....Period....

Smokers just need to stay outside, that's all I am saying....


Hey bud I have been working on cars for almost 25 years now, the industry standard for "asbestos free" doesnt mean there isnt any, it means they are less than the industry standard, which is not 0 btw, there is still a lot in brake pads, whichnis why it is illegal for a garage to grind your soes down like the used to do, because it will be released into the air.

Think about obama redefining enemy combatant to any 18 plus year old around a bomb strike, to oimit collateral damage, it is the same thing.

Everyone freaked about it when they discovered asbestosis, and demanded asbestos free brakes, there sadly is not anither material yet that can cost effectively resist heat and friction as well as it can, it is still an essential component of automobile brakes today, just as it always has been.

Here is a link to a .gov source, you shoukd trust that one.

Asbestos has been mined and used commercially in North America since the late 1800s. Its use increased greatly during World War II (3, 4). Since then, asbestos has been used in many industries. For example, the building and construction industries have used it for strengthening cement and plastics as well as for insulation, roofing, fireproofing, and sound absorption. The shipbuilding industry has used asbestos to insulate boilers, steam pipes, and hot water pipes. The automotive industry uses asbestos in vehicle brake shoes and clutch pads. Asbestos has also been used in ceiling and floor tiles; paints, coatings, and adhesives; and plastics. In addition, asbestos has been found in vermiculite-containing garden products and some talc-containing crayons.In the late 1970s, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) banned the use of asbestos in wallboard patching compounds and gas fireplaces because the asbestos fibers in these products could be released into the environment during use. In addition, manufacturers of electric hairdryers voluntarily stopped using asbestos in their products in 1979. In 1989, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) banned all new uses of asbestos; however, uses developed before 1989 are still allowed. The EPA also established regulations that require school systems to inspect buildings for the presence of damaged asbestos and to eliminate or reduce asbestos exposure to occupants by removing the asbestos or encasing it (2).

m.cancer.gov...

Now just as you wanted to pitch a complait tent, so am I, stop driving your car or stfu abiut electronic cigarettes.

Only new types of its use have been banned, car brakes existed before the 89 cut off date, so it is fair game for use.

They only changed the definition of contains asbestos to mean at the industry standard or lower is asbestos free.

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

All this talk....

Time to go outside and exhale my cig smoke into the "pristine

" air!


Mwaaaahhh!

GOOD....GO THE EFF OUTSIDE, like you should be when you smoke....Not indoors in an enclosed area for others to breathe in your garbage

reply to post by BaitingThePublic


Where does your statement about all I care about in this world is this come from? WTH are you talking about?

reply to post by inverslyproportional


It says clearly in your government document.....Used in brake shoes.....If you work on cars you know what brake shoes are, right?

They are not brake pads....The go inside your disc for emergency brakes.....Do you ride around with your emergency brake on?

Was vaping in a mall the other day, someone walked though my cloud of vapor and said "hey, that smells really good'

Wow, you and your whole family should get inside some kind of bubble or maybe live in Mars.

reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer


Doesn't mean it's good for them......My poop smells like roses, want some?

Originally posted by marhaba
Wow, you and your whole family should get inside some kind of bubble or maybe live in Mars.

Live in Mars? You know a secret opening to the inside? Let's go......

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


What a childish analogy.

Seriously? Couldn't come up with anything better?

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein

Originally posted by marhaba
Wow, you and your whole family should get inside some kind of bubble or maybe live in Mars.

Live in Mars? You know a secret opening to the inside? Let's go......

www.cbc.ca...

There you go, boss.

Go nuts.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by jaynkeel

 

It isn't that I am not concerned about other things like that.....It is I shouldn't have to breathe this crap in when I am in a public mall....

Enclosed spaces shouldn't be allowed to have these things being smoked is all I am saying.....Smoke outside where I don't have to breathe this stuff in.....That's it

If your that concerned then buy a gas mask and breath all the clean air you want. Just to mention that a lot of these "malls" have worse contaminates in them than e cig smoke, like the materials they use in constructing them that release fumes etc etc . Seems to me you don't like anything to do with smokers and just wanna have something to bitch about. Question for you, do you ever go to a night club or Halloween event where they use smoke machines? And by the way the food court at a mall is far from a confined space, Sorry if I am being a little short in my responses but I am just sick and tired of people whining all the time about smokers.

There is no proof whatsoever of passive smoking.
The closest stats they have is two in every eighty thousand die of passive smoking.

People have been manipulated into believing this second hand smoke rubbish.
It`s all in the head !

One thing the OP needs to understand here, before more bad information becomes worse: E-cigs produce vapor, not smoke. (Yes, I realize you realize this.) But Vapor=steam, so there's a giant difference.

In tobacco cigarettes, more chemicals are produced upon burning the cigarette due to combustion, so when you start off with a couple hundred, you'll end up with thousands of different chemicals in the smoke because the chemical composition of the ingredients in the tobacco changes when burned.

There is no combustion with e-cigarettes, so the only chemicals that will ever be found in the vapor would be exactly the same as what is in the liquid to start. The chemicals don't change. My liquid contains propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, (very little) nicotine and flavors, so therefore, my vapor contains the same.
The same thing that happens to the liquid in an e-cigarette happens when you cook food. The liquid vaporizes into steam. There are more chemicals contained in the vapor from boiling a pot of chicken noodle soup than in my e-cigarette vapor. Better stop cooking.

Better warn these folks that they're poisoning your air, too:

New Diet Trend: Vaporizing Food and Inhaling it

Unless you are allergic to PG or VG, they are pretty benign ingredients and used as carriers in ALL kinds of things, including fog machines, air fresheners, lotions, soaps as well as many foods and medicines.

A quote from the EPA: Source (Page 15)

Propylene glycol is used on the following use sites: air treatment (eating establishments, hospital, commercial, institutional, household, bathroom, transportational facilities); medical premises and equipment, commercial, institutional and industrial premises and equipment; laundry equipment; hard non-porous surface treatments (bathroom facilities); automobiles; air conditioning filters; pet treatment, including cats, dogs, and caged birds; environmental inanimate hard surfaces; garbage containers/storage

(emphasis mine)

If you step back from your own preconceptions and actually learn a little about the thing you claim is so darn horrible, you'll realize how silly you sound. The air quality inside your own home is probably much worse than the vapor from any e-cig.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer

 

I can't watch the video at work, but from the rest of your post I think you are missing the point...

Congrats on quitting regular cigarettes......Don't smoke them around people is all I am saying...

They aren't safe for others....Better for you? Yep.....Better for others? Nope

Did you read the study that you provided in your OP?

Read more here.... www.utahvapers.com...
This above was an actual peer reviewed study..

Not peer reviewed as far as I can tell. Although it was presented at a conference. Ironically, you pulled the study from a vaporizer manufacturer's website.

Nicotine Among all, the most interesting aspects
we observed was that nicotine was not detected in air
during the e-smoking session

CO (Carbon Monoxide) [12] The levels of carbon
monoxide did not show any variation during ecigarette
smoking, remaining below the detection limits
of the tool.

Propylene Glycol Results on propylene glycol
were also unexpected. During e-smoking tests, propylene
glycol was not detected, although 50% of liquid3
consisted of propylene glycol.

In fact, it is well known that glycerine is often
added to moisten tobacco. During combustion glycerine
is transformed into acrolein [3]. The fact that
no combustion is involved when using e-cigarettes
probably plays a fundamental role in the absence of
acrolein from indoor air during their use.

In fact, it is well known that glycerine is often
added to moisten tobacco. During combustion glycerine
is transformed into acrolein [3]. The fact that
no combustion is involved when using e-cigarettes
probably plays a fundamental role in the absence of
acrolein from indoor air during their use.

Most importantly, conclusion:

The above experiment, within the limits of the observed
parameters, has underlined that e-smoking
does not produce detectable amounts of toxic and carcinogenic
substances in the air of an enclosed space.

Although I did see some elevated levels of certain chemicals, it seems probably less than what you might inhale at the gas station pumping gas, or sitting in the car with the window open when someone else does it.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

The only response I have to that is, it's stage fog. freaking stage fog. Ever been to a night club or something? Same thing only with some flavoring and nicotine.

NOCOTINE??

Oh you just proved me right......It is not freaking stage fog...

Read the freaking studies or go troll somewhere else!

Yet, the study you posted showed no active levels of nicotine in the air. Who's trolling?

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


"Less toxic" as in, "the human body was not designed for this stuff", or, "you can actually overdose on nicotine"..

If it has nicotine, it has a toxicity level.. Nicotine can be toxic in the right concentration. Kids have died from overdosing on nicotine when they eat cigarette butts.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


I do not smoke anywhere but at my home, my wife smokes at home as well. We do not own an automobile, nor anything that has a combustion engine in it, we walk or ride bikes.

the reason we do not use combustion engines is because we do not SUPPORT TERRORISM (from "our" government or any other's.)

I will be very happy to smoke outside for you, if you give up combustion engines for me sir.

that's fair and equal.


(personally I do not care if you drive cars or not but if you want to infringe on MY rights, I will do the same for yours, read the second to last line in my sig line, it pertains to you)

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

All this talk....

Time to go outside and exhale my cig smoke into the "pristine

" air!


Mwaaaahhh!

GOOD....GO THE EFF OUTSIDE, like you should be when you smoke....Not indoors in an enclosed area for others to breathe in your garbage

Smoke and Vapour are two fundamentally different things.

Something it seems you failed to grasp throughout this thread.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

Is it really safe for me (the non smoker)?

Depends if you live in the city of a pulp mill, smelter, steel mill, refinery, etc.

In which case I'd say nothing is safe for you by the baseline you've set out for yourself. You might not want to breath from the time you open your door to the time you are safely back in your bat cave.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

And no I don't complain about anyting other than things that are forced upon me and my family like this......I make the decision to not breathe this crap in....Period....

Smokers just need to stay outside, that's all I am saying....

There is not one item you can purchase, or one type of transportation you can take, that will pollute less than what an esmoker will put in the air. Be it CO, CO2, Benzene, NOx's, SOx's, Methane... etc, etc.

If you want to rid the world of your filthy polluting ways, you can go live on another planet. Of course getting their would use a larger chemical footprint than you would probably leave in your whole life.

On the other hand, you could just stop complaining on invisible threats from the dirty vapour puffing crowd that you believe are trying to kill you, your wife and kids.

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


I didn't say it's all you cared about, I said if it is the biggest concern/problem you have in life -- having to deal with others holding a miniscule mechanical device -- then you should be glad life is that easy. You shouldn't be so rabidly lashing at people who are debating information.