E-Cigs second hand "smoke"? Safe or not for the non smoker?

TokiTheDestroyer

Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by xmaddness

 

Most consumers will get in contact with propylene glycol during their normal everyday life, when consuming personal care articles like creams, sprays, lotions, when enjoying soft drinks, sweets and other foods, or when taking a medicine or being vaccinated against a severe disease.

Good, we use just about 0% of anything on this list other than "other foods".....Now I don't want to breathe in your stupid e-cig either!

No bubble, I just don't want the garbage you are putting in your system to have to be breathed in by me....Say what you will, but that is MY choice!

The other very intelligent replies (/sarcasm) are about to make me change my mind also!!

"Live in a bubble"
"wear a butt plug so I don't have to smell your farts"

Wow, these are very intelligent replies! I will voice whatever opinion I would like, if you don't like the topic then stay away from the thread!

I told myself I wasn't going to come back, I told myself I wouldn't get sucked in to this again, yet here I sit and with only one thing to say: You are quite possibly the only person who gets their own opinion confused with fact.

Feel free to explain to me anywhere in this reply at all where I claimed anything of my opinion was fact....Or stay away, no biggie to me!

Cuervo
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

As much as I think that E-Cig enthusiasts are being super sensitive about your thread, you gotta realize that many feel like they've finally made some success in quitting tobacco. Most of these people are people who've tried to quit several times and failed. This is a little victory and when that's frowned upon, they naturally get indignant.

I use these too. I appreciate this thread because the question you have is the same as the one I have. Will I use them in public places? Yep and even inside places. But I won't use them right next to somebody or in front of my family. Your OP was not aggressive and you even made a point to congratulate people who have made the switch. What you have found was that there was, indeed, something that comes off of these even if minuscule.

I guess my reaction to this would be "it's not as bad as I thought but it's still inconsiderate to do it within somebody's breathing space". I'm pretty sure that the most angry responses came from people who didn't read the entire post.


ps edit - it would be interesting to see how many of the people saying you are overreacting complain about chemtrails which have even less evidence backing up the harmful effects. And they call you a hypocrite, heh heh.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Cuervo because: (no reason given)

THANK YOU!! You are the ONLY person on this entire thread besides myself who understands what I am saying!!

You said it all buddy! Thanks again!!!

OpinionatedB
reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

 

I don't like the crap chemicals from your car either. But I haven't told you to quit driving....

Nor did I tell you to quit smoking your esigs.....I wish people read things every now and again...Seriously

Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by timetothink

 

Wow, you don't read either......It's okay I will spell it out again just for you!

We were eating less than 4 inches away from another table that was practically butted up against our table....

There was an entire table.....Read......Entire table of elderly gentlemen smoking these together sitting around talking to each other...

By entire table, there were at least 10....But the 4 at the end of the table were at least 10 feet away....

My wife was sitting with her left arm 2 inches away from the two closest to us......ANYWAYS

Change Tables

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


You're safe..relax.

The truth is, everything IS TOXIC. Yes, everything.

The air we breathe to the water we drink...we need them to survive, but they are toxic.

Oxygen is a very toxic gas. It's corrosive to our systems, but our cells need it to power themselves.

If you were to drink a couple of litres more than the recommended daily amount of plain water, it could actually kill you.

The other truth that nobody cares to mention about the dreaded nicotine...is that it is a perfectly natural substance found in many foods we and yes, our children eat.

Tomatoes contain relatively high levels of nicotine, as do many other fruits and vegetables. Higher amounts are found in a plate of salad, than you or you kids would ever inhale in second-hand vapour from a personal vapouriser.

Propylene Glycol is ubiquitous..it's found in pretty much every product we use every day, from foods to toiletries.

It is pumped into some hospital OR's as vapour as a means of cutting down on bacterial and viral infections.

The only thing in the juice and hence vapour i would worry about if i didn't use PV's or indeed smoke tobacco myself, would be the use of artificial sweeteners in the SOME of flavourings of nicotine juice. That stuff is pure filth in my opinion.

But again, when were talking about second-hand vapour, the amounts are so tiny, you'd get a months worth of the stuff, simply having a half glass of soda containing the sweetener crap.

There's infinitely more danger from just opening your window and breathing in the car and lorry exhaust fumes for five minutes, than you would get from years of the tiny amounts of 'second hand vapour' you would breathe.

So people really need to get some perspective on this, and know that, without doubt there are very powerful, very wealthy lobby groups, very threatened by the rise and extremely successful use of people switching from deadly tobacco smoking to using personal vapourisers as a nicotine delivery method.

I ought to know...i smoked tobacco heavily for about 30 years, couldn't walk up the stairs without huffing and puffing in the end...switched to Personal vapourisers (e-cigs..hate that term, they're nothing like filthy cigs) about 4 years ago, and haven't felt as healthy as i do now for decades.

Big pharma, Big tobacco all stand to lose hundreds of millions in their sales as more and more people make the switch...it's not surprising they are using their muscle to clobber PV's every chance they get.

You started your thread deceivingly seeming to ASK whether E-Cig smoke is safer than real smoke but then you quickly start ranting about your "research" and tell e-cig smokers to go outside because it's so harmful (in your opinion). Basically, you already formed an opinion and your post is more like a rant than actually asking for facts.

FACTS are indeed that the majority (pretty much all!) of toxins and pollutants from SMOKE come from that tobacco is BURNT, a chemical reaction which (as should be known) produces all kinds of harmful and cancerous substances.

Since a e-cigarette is not lit and doesn't BURN it doesn't produce any of those substances.

The liquids contain ingredients which are common place in cosmetics and are considered harmless and non hazardous, like glycol etc. UNLESS someone would be allergic against, say, propylene glyvol.

The remaining nicotine (and even your "study" showed that) does not get released as "second hand smoke", it seems to be entirely absorbed.

THERE IS NO STUDY OR EVIDENCE suggesting that the vapor contains ANY harmful substances, whatsoever.
(Feel free to prove me wrong!)

Your story is nothing but based on the fact that your wife for some reason felt "light headed", and the rest is you making up some theory about harmful substances and second hand vapor (bare any supporting data and evidence!) and worse even, crying about the bad e-cig smokers who should go outside due to the health hazard etc..etc.. BASED ON NOTHING.

Likelihood is that you probably inhaled more REAL toxic substances at the food court coming from a grill from a fast food restaurant, or cleaners used in a store or parfums used by people in the mall around you etc...which would far outweigh any substances from the ecigs in terms of causing a hazard for health.

Whether the chemicals are bad for you or not, it's pretty irrelevant. The things you're overlooking IMO, OP, is the process by which the nicotine and chemicals are delivered to the smoker first off. Rather then burning a smoke which lets off a ton of carcinogens, an e-cig vaporizes the chemicals. This means when it leaves the e-cig it enters the "smoker's" lungs in the form of a water vapor concentrated with the nicotine and other chemicals. Now I'm sure you can find an exact figure, but roughly over 90% (more like 95-99% really, but just to give benefit of the doubt, we'll use 90%) of the chemicals are absorbed on contact of the mucus membrane during the inhale process. Now, combine this with this FACT:

To our knowledge, this is one of the first studies to measure the air concentrations of nicotine and volatile organic compounds and compare the emissions from electronic and conventional tobacco cigarettes,” said Dr. Goniewicz, a researcher and Assistant Professor of Oncology in RPCI’s Department of Health Behavior. “Our data suggest that secondhand exposure to nicotine from e-cigarettes is on average 10 times less than from tobacco smoke. However, more research is needed to evaluate the health consequences of secondhand exposure to nicotine from e-cigarettes, especially among vulnerable populations including children, pregnant women and people with cardiovascular conditions.

Roswell Park - Cancer Research Institute

So think about this: 90% of the chemicals, which are proven to be 10 TIMES less harmful then a regular smoke, are already absorbed on contact before second hand e-cig "smoke" even enters into the atmosphere around the person smoking them. This already proves to be a much healthier/safer way to go about smoking in public. Now finally, combine this with the concept of vapor diffusion during an exhale. For example,99.9% of people who are smoking are generally standing at least a foot away from the nearest person, rather then exhaling directly into someone else's mouth... even with this tiny bit of space between people, the remaining vapors would have fairly ample room to dissipate, and that's only using 1 ft. as an example!

Bottom line: e-cigs DON'T cause measurable "second hand smoke" damage to "innocent" bystanders.

Now, I'm going to have a real cigarette, thanks.

I know people are sensitive about having their rights tampered with but I think people have been a bit unfair in regards to how they've responded to the op, he had a concern based upon his naturally protective feelings towards his family and I feel he's been attacked unfairly, I agree his claims are unfounded and hypocritical (anyone who drives a vehicle and complains about ecigs is at the far end of hypocrisy) but I just think a lot of the tone of the responses were kind of hostile and uncalled for. I'm actually glad he created this thread because as an e-cig smoker myself I've gained a nice bit of knowledge from what's come out of the topic itself.

In public I'm conscious about how I vape, if I'm in a lift for example (an elevator) I wouldn't use one even though I believe there would be no harm done by it, I just take other people's feelings (and ignorance) into account and I just hope people get aducated about ecigs so I don't have to feel conscious about using them in public.

Right now I'm sitting in an office at my desk with my ecig hidden down my sleeve stealing the occasional pull, it's not allowed where I work so I just do it in stealth mode. I asked human resources for their rational on why ecogs were banned in the workplace and they couldn't really justify it and asked me to prove they were non-harmful, thanks to this thread I now have some ammo to back me up.

I wonder if the OP's wife ask the people she sits next to in Movie Theaters, or the DMV or a cafeteria what perfume or deodorant is ok for her to wear that day.

I wonder if the OP asked his neighbors what flowers could be planted around his home in case any neighbors could be allergic.

I wonder if the OP has ever used spray paint or insecticide.

Has the OP ever stood in a locker room and asked the other guys if it was okay to spray himself with axe body-spray.

Has it ever occurred to the OP to think that maybe it was the mall cafeteria food. It can be considered harmful and is not filled with nutrients. Maybe just maybe chewing on cinn-a-bon or pretzel-dogs is the real reason for the light headiness.

Maybe she is light headed from all the chemicals she was caking on herself and inhaling at the Dillard's make-up counter. Maybe she became light headed from all the craft stores and the glues they use, or the shoe stores and the chemicals they spray on leather to protect it from water damage. You see where I am going.

There is a million different reasons why the OPs wife could have gotten light headed yet he chooses to attack E-cigs and their users.

Why? Propaganda!

Cigarette companies are fighting tooth and nail to get ecigs considered bad just like their own product. They also want the price to increase. Big tobacco is losing so much money they are actually asking lawmakers to once again lie to increase their profits. Except this time they aren't lying about what real cigarettes do, they are lying about ecigs in hopes of influencing the public back to real corporatized tobacco. See Big tobacco knows if they can get ecig people back outside next to real smokers they have a better chance at falling back into the addiction.

reply to post by MysterX


Just to make a point, not every e-liquid has any sweetener. The place I buy from, use no sugars or anything and the flavor is great. They use PG, VG, nicotine in a variety of dosages, and in some flavors, alcohol.

I know several people who I've gotten to take up vaping and their nasty smoker cough has cleared up, too.

I wouldn't worry about second hand vape at all, however I am considerate with it around other people, but I don't guppy toe around either. I vape in stores and other places, and not one person has complained a bit. I usually get alot of questions though, asking me what my set up is. I don't use a cigarette looking e-cig, I use several different vaporizers...

I'm thankful for the e-cig, because its made me a much healthier person, and all in all, I can tell a huge difference.