Survivalist faces charges for teaching in self-built school

Eustace Conway has lived in the wilderness of the Appalachian Mountains for 30 years, detached from modern society. Now, he wants to teach others his survival skills – but the state of North Carolina has slammed him with a series of violations.

The 51-year-old man has traveled from coast to coast on a horse, faced down a grizzly bear, defeated a thrashing buck with his bare hands, grown his own food, hunted game, made clothes out of animal skin, and survived harsh winters on snow-capped mountains.

The Watauga County planning department has slammed Conway with a 78-page report outlining the health and sanitary violations of Turtle Island. The county claims that Conway’s open-air kitchen and toilets made of sawdust are not permissible for a public facility. And unless the common area has a conventional restroom, fire sprinklers and smoke detectors, his entire camp must remain shut down.

rt.com...

Wow.. The really do not want anyone to know how to survive in the wild.. Maybe he should run the camp on donations, so people are not actually paying for it.. I do wonder whether he has a disclaimer or not.. There must be some way around this situation..

This guy must know a hell of a lot and could teach many important survival skills to the average person who knows nothing about survival..

What do ATS think...

peace
fluffx

An empty thread, no, wait, it is a 007 pussy cat!

Wait, have patience for all will be revealed as if by magic. I thought I saw a puddy cat!

P

reply to post by pheonix358


LOL

Sorry dude..! Accidentally pressed the enter button instead of tab when I had inserted my title.. Bit on the slow side this morn

Well, I think it's about survival alright. Survival from death by a thousand regulations. He may know how to live in the woods but it sounds like he just met City Hall and it landed on him. A guy can't even make a casual business anymore without all the regulations of a downtown office building.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well, I think it's about survival alright. Survival from death by a thousand regulations. He may know how to live in the woods but it sounds like he just met City Hall and it landed on him. A guy can't even make a casual business anymore without all the regulations of a downtown office building.

edit on 19-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Exactly, and all across the Western World people cry out "the economy is falling, the economy is falling", they wring their hands in desperation and wring each others necks and wonder why!

Well, the answer my friend, is in the hearts of men, get rid of local government. Then small business can flourish.

I ran a small business, spent a quarter of my time on unpaid Government business. Every time you farted some dick was there to record the event and tell me what little crap thing I wasn't doing.

Most of them come across as stupid irrelevant copies of a micro Hitler.

P

reply to post by fluff007


I kind of agree with the city on this one.
If a business wants to do business, then conform to the rules and laws of business.
Otherwise, we would have corporations breaking all sorts of environmental laws and getting away with god knows what!
Hmmm...wait a minute...

reply to post by g146541

Otherwise, we would have corporations breaking all sorts of environmental laws and getting away with god knows what!

Lol. They are already doing that regardless of rules and regulations. They are above the law..

If a business wants to do business, then conform to the rules and laws of business.

There are businesses similar to this. For example I have a friend on the mainland of Scotland that makes yurts. He has 2 set up on his land and a teepee too.. He hires them out and is always fully booked about 18months in advance. There is a compost toilet available to customers, fresh running water, a bathroom and a small outside kitchen. However there are no fire alarms or smoke detectors. Yet he has had people inspect and has never had a problem.. But this is in Scotland, not America.

There are many people out there who would and do pay a lot of money to come and stay in places like this. To have a break from the tireless chaos of modern day life..
I have had a look at the pictures of the Turtle Island Preserve and it looks like a campsite with teepees and some small cabin huts.. It does not look unsanitary or dangerous..

Does this mean they will make camping illegal..? When we go out and camp we set a fire, use the land as our toilet and have to fend for ourselves. We might eat a diseased animal, we might eat the wrong berry, we might set our tent on fire. How do the modern day trappings possibly fit in there.. We do everything at our own risk. We are responsible for our own actions.

All this man is doing is educating people. The people that go will be aware that this establishment is free from most modern day trappings.. And I would imagine many of them will understand that they go there at their own risk..

I have found this:

Important Liability Waiver - Read before entering: Please be aware that Turtle Island Preserve is NOT LIABLE for your safety, health or any impairment of it. Enter at your own risk. Your presence represents your acknowledgement that you accept full liability for any damage to your person or property. This applies to everyone on the property or associated with Turtle Island Preserve.

www.turtleislandpreserve.com...

I am not sure how a disclaimer works in the US. How does this work in correlation with county rules and regulations..

If people know of the risks and are willing to accept them and send thier kids there, they should be allowed to. Does he have a sign anywhere saying the building conforms to the AAPC or TTLKG's guidelines or anything like that? No, so he should be allowed to peddle his wares on the free market.

Just saw Fluff's post about the disclaimer, exactly what I mean. Where has the free economy gone? Down the sawdust lined # hole!

The big thing is whether or not you're getting paid and doing business. Even if he was non-profit, there are certain safety and health regulations he'd have to follow depending on the services offered. I'm a small business owner too, and I have to abide by all of the state and federal regulations, pay my taxes, etc. I even go above these, such as having lots of fire extinguishers, multiple first aid kits, etc.

In the US, the liability waiver is a start, but it will NOT prevent the person's ability to sue..all it will do is prove that the litigant was aware of the risks (which is a big deal when considering tort (blame)). Even so, if the litigant can prove negligence (which would be EASY if the facility wasn't on board with the regulations), they'd still get a payday....

Originally posted by Gazrok
The big thing is whether or not you're getting paid and doing business. Even if he was non-profit, there are certain safety and health regulations he'd have to follow depending on the services offered. I'm a small business owner too, and I have to abide by all of the state and federal regulations, pay my taxes, etc. I even go above these, such as having lots of fire extinguishers, multiple first aid kits, etc.

And that is wrong in my opinion. 100 years ago if your product caused sickness or injury, you got a bad name and went out of business. Theiry should be a voluntary standard and it is up to you to have the sticker on your door or your product and for your customers to decide if they want to risk using your service/product. This over protective "safety culture" is killing small business and making impossible to start one. I would go further and make it illegal to employ a full time safety officer. If you have a full time safety officer he/she has to find things to fill their time with and make up hazards that are so bloody unlikely to occur that you spend all your money trying to stop phantom problems from ever occuring. Business and government should be forced to hire contractors rather than full time safety officers/inspectors.


And isnt suing enough of a deterent to bad or unsafe practices? It has gone too far, once again, where is the freedom anymore?

reply to post by Gazrok


I think for starters he is a different kind of business. It is about education of survival. How are people meant to be able to survive if they never have a chance to experience being in 'the wild' when they will have to rely on their own knowledge and skill to survive. Especially if we constantly have all these modern trappings surrounding us..

And seeing as we are having more major disasters, now more than ever the people of the world should be taught how to survive if the SHTF...

There are other survival courses that train people in the wild - what do they do?

Seems to me his classroom is the wilderness and so when in Rome, do as the Romans do - Does a bear crap in the woods? Will you have to dig a hole and crap in the woods? Of course you will. He could have his main office complete with these items then simply lead his class outside.

The Army teaches these things in the woods - How do they get around this problem?? I'm sure there are some Army survival training going on in this state.

reply to post by fluff007


This kind of stuff pisses me off so much.

I understand certain rules and regulations, but to shut down everything of his? Over those minor things?

Leave the guy alone. Its his property, his choices.

Oh wait, not its not... the government is God.

Yes masah... take my land... take my freedom... yes masah, I'll sign up for welfare and suck your teet, masah...

The military is (legally) a whole other ball of wax, so can't compare apples and oranges.

Likely, (not sure of the law where he is), there are some exemptions/exclusions, and certain other considerations he could get to ignore or change some of those regulations based on his business model...chances are, he never bothered to do so, or was even aware of them. The government involved should give him some reasonable time to comply or obtain such exemptions before doing any kind of prosecution, etc., but that is all dependent on the laws of his area.

Here's the rub...

to show kids how he lived in the wilderness

Kids.

There are TONS of regulations to "protect" kids, that any business involved with them has some SERIOUS liabilities to consider. This is why he's getting targeted and raked over the coals. Some self-righteous idiot who just graduated college with some kind of kid care degree and has never even babysat, got a hair up their butt to "save the kids"...

reply to post by Gazrok


It is not just kids that he educates.. It is adults also. All people from all different walks of life.. Check out the website.

www.turtleislandpreserve.com...

This is exactly what I meant when I said "Let us make man in our image".....

IN OUR IMAGE

IN OUR IMAGE

IN OUR IMAGE

Let it sink in!

No! you cannot teach survivalist methodology because it is NOT IN OUR IMAGE

reply to post by Gazrok


Legally, yes. Common sense, no.
The army (the government) can pay people to learn these things to do it's will.
The people (the former government) cannot pay a person to teach them to do their own will.

What bunk.

I can understand the part about toilets, if he has more than a hundred visitors a year.

Yes, you can build a home-made latrine; but they are hothouses of disease, especially when larger groups beyond family unit share them. This is why armies often lose more soldiers to disease than to combat.

If he has a small army out on his island, they will be bringing in bugs from all over with them, and exchanging diseases. He owes it to them to provide facilities that can be sterilized each day. The army is doing this in Afghan--they don't just dig a trench and have you cover your mess with dirt any more. Too many soldiers don't wash their hands, for them to be sharing the shovel by the latrine.

You need seats that can be bleached or lysol-ed, walkways that can be hosed down, etc.

Not to mention the nitrogen content of human poop; It's nearly as high as for pigs. And burying doesn't let it compost; it just allows the nitrogen to leach down into the water table.

Teach them how to dig a latrine. Teach them latrine discipline. Then have them poop where you can sterilize it before the next troop of greenhorns show up, 3 of whom will be just recovering from "the flu" before trampling all over the property and taking a leak in all the bushes until everyone is dripping from yellow rain.

To live in nature, you have to tread lightly.

a hundred neophytes every weekend is not treading lightly.

The only thing all of this proves, is that this guy is a REALLY GOOD TEACHER....

reply to post by tovenar


I think if he did what you suggested it would kind of defeat the purpose. The idea is to educate people on survival.. In a survival situation where are you going to get your hands on bleach or sterilising cleaners..?

This is what he means by not having any of the modern day trappings... It is possible to have a sanitary and hygienic outside toilet that is not your conventional loo..

This man is not stupid.. He has lived in snow capped mountains for 30 years. He is still alive and very healthy after those 30 years, despite him not having a conventional toilet and bleach for all that time..