The Reincarnation Video That Changed My Mind

reply to post by adjensen


i believe the transfiguration was a vision. in other words, reincarnation had nothing to do with it. so i don't know why you would think i'm saying john was reincarnated again to elijah.........

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
reply to post by adjensen

 

i believe the transfiguration was a vision. in other words, reincarnation had nothing to do with it. so i don't know why you would think i'm saying john was reincarnated again to elijah.........

There is no reason to believe that it was a vision, and a number of reasons to believe otherwise, such as there being three witnesses, and Peter offering to make physical structures for Jesus, Moses and Elijah.

It would be more convenient for your perspective if it was a vision, but this would be an example of eisegesis -- reading a text non-critically, making it seem to say something that it does not, in order to support a pre-existing bias.

reply to post by adjensen


ok ok ok you win. i can see that you like to debate from the link you have. i hope you feel better now. didn't you state earlier that you wouldn't watch the videos? what gives? i know you explained but it didn't explain much.

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
reply to post by adjensen

 

ok ok ok you win. i can see that you like to debate from the link you have. i hope you feel better now.

Not really, lol.

didn't you state earlier that you wouldn't watch the videos? what gives? i know you explained but it didn't explain much.

I don't watch videos, as a rule. Most of the time I simply cannot, for technical reasons, but even when I can, I won't because, as I said, it is one of the worst methods of communication I can imagine. You can't ask questions, you can't find sources, motivation is suspect and the general sense I get is that they are aimed at the lowest common denominator. Given the choice between watching a YouTube video for an hour (or more -- there was a recent thread that had the OP recommending a series of 15 hours of documentary!) and reading a book, I'll take the book every time.

What's to understand? Pick some concept at random that you don't believe in, and consider why you do not believe it -- your reasons are probably the same as mine; lack of personal experience, lack of evidence, and lack of an existing bias that would cause you to overlook the other two.

reply to post by adjensen


No, my reasoning is not like yours. I don't HAVE to experience something to believe it is possible. Once I think something may be possible I research. Then, I determine what I believe or don't believe based on an accurate weighing out. Then a bias occurs because I feel like I have enough evidence to back up why I believe or don't believe something. I do understand there are people who would have to experience something to believe it. I do.

AS far as the Bible goes, there are many instances whereas not only myself, but many others believe certain scriptures speak on behalf of rebirth and reincarnation as does baptism but I don't have to prove it. I already know it as a fact. There is too much evidence to back it up. Google it and read and perhaps decipher at your own will and you will find the evidence speaks for itself.

Its there.... in and outside the bible. Many ancient mystics believed such and they, the mystics, were much more in tune with nature than the material. We see who runs the world today.... was it the right way to go? The right teachings for mankind? I believe not.

We, especially in the west, are so behind times, its funny!

Jesus was a mystic and this is the reason why he had a small group for the mysteries of life. They were his disciples. These students of his learned and passed the mysteries down first in oral and then in written form. Not all if it was kept for teaching. Man has his twisted ideals around the truth. One has to seek it.

Enoch tells us a great deal. The mysteries unfold with him as well.

Our consciousness also lies outside our brain. We do not need a brain to live in spirit. We come back through judgement.

No, it does not. If one approaches the text with an intent to find support for reincarnation, they will likely find some, but they could do the same thing with a copy of Tom Sawyer or Pride and Prejudice.

reply to post by adjensen


I don't see any comparison.

Mainstream Jews believed that one was either physically resurrected, or they believed that they were annihilated. Reincarnation was a minority view held by some mystics, not reflected by either Christ or the Bible.

reply to post by adjensen


Thats not true. Researching cannot be an honest quest with bias.

Mystics were not the minority.

Christ and the Bible do reflect it, but you do not see it.

We just gotta agree to disagree.

Originally posted by MamaJ
Mystics were not the minority.

Of course they were. They always are, right or wrong.

However, I'm open to contrary evidence. Please provide it.

Christ and the Bible do reflect it, but you do not see it.

No, they do not. The only way that one can come to that conclusion is if that is the conclusion they wish to find.

A challenge for you: find a local Rabbi, and ask him if the Torah supports reincarnation.

reply to post by adjensen


In ancient literature such as the Bible, Q'ran, Torah, Kaballah, etc... one finds mysticism filled within the pages and because of this it suggests mysticism was quite the norm.

Because of the lack of control, it was taken out and replaced with a language that hides parts, but not all. The mystical ideas and visions had by such characters in the ancient books are seen if one has his eyes open.

Baptism symbolizes rebirth.

The great Italian Kabbalist Moshe Chaim Luzzato (Ramchal) explained in his classic work The Way of God that "a single soul can be reincarnated a number of times in different bodies, and in this manner, it can rectify damage done in previous incarnations.

Rabbi Isaac Luria's Book of Incarnations is a fascinating exploration of the soul roots of many of the key figures of the Torah. It demonstrates how seemingly unrelated events and people in classic Biblical accounts are actually the same (albeit) reincarnated souls back to take a second crack at achieving their potential or to rectify their poor choices and the negative consequences from previous incarnations. For example, though Noah was considered a righteous man, he is faulted for failing to take responsibility for his generation and allowing them to be destroyed by the flood. The Hebrew word for the boat he built (and that saved humanity) is "teyva." This word is only used one more time in the Torah and it also involves being saved from the water. It's the name given to the little raft that Moses' mother made to hide him from the Egyptians. According to Rabbi Luria, Moses is the soul of Noah who's been offered a second chance to take responsibility for his people and the unusual word is the hint that links the accounts. (This particular soul succeeds with flying colors in round two).

The concept of reincarnation also motivates various aspects of Jewish law, prayer and ethics. Ultimately we believe that good deeds should be performed with no ulterior motive. Nonetheless, it's understood, for instance, that if we transgress the Torah's prohibition against bearing a grudge, (Leviticus 19:18) we might be dragged into someone else's next incarnation to give them the chance to do right by us. To prevent that need there is a wonderful nightly meditation that guides us towards forgiveness of all who may have wronged us that day. It reads (in part) "Master of the Universe, I hereby forgive anyone who angered or antagonized or sinned against me -- whether against my body, my property, my honor or against anything of mine...whether through speech, deed, thought or notion; whether in this transmigration or another transmigration."http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-adam-jacobs/reincarnation-in-judaism_b_811379.html

John speaks of a man sinning... or his parents and this is why the man was born blind. He states a man must be born again to enter heaven... this is why baptism is crucial but not in the way the Christian is taught. It symbolizes the rebirth process and the nature of life. To be cleansed and have another chance to rectify the last incarnation through the mothers womb via Jesus.

The bible speaks of us being born with sin and reaping what we sow. We reap what we sow in each life on earth until we ascend. Its the "wheel of nature" found in James. If you "draw the sword, you will also die by the sword".

In Exodus it speaks of an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, an arm for an arm. Its karma from life to the next and this is the Divine Law.

"The soul has neither beginning nor end … They come into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of their previous lives." (Origen, De Principiis)

When Origen used the parable of the talents to infer reincarnation and pre-existence he was not introducing some foreign religious or philosophical concept into the Christian religion. He was expressing what is described throughout the Bible and believed by early Christians to be one of the secret teachings of Jesus. Not everyone understands the teachings that Jesus is the first and last. He comes again to teach us the way through his blood we each possess. Through him we are evolving and ascending to a perfected state and he is the last Adam (man). The judgement will be had in the final days because we have had time and times and half to repent through baptism.

This is a very old teaching.

When Jesus explains to Nicodemus the difference between bodily rebirth, "born of water," he is referring to reincarnation and spiritual rebirth, "born of the Spirit," is the true resurrection.

reply to post by adjensen


Reincarnation is a very old teaching and dates back to the Iron Age which is around 1200 BCE.
It also appears in the philosophical discussions and traditions of India and Greece from about the 6th century BCE.

Also during the Iron Age, the Greek Pre-Socratics discussed reincarnation, and the Celtic Druids are also reported to have taught a doctrine of reincarnation.

There are also those who believe reincarnation was present in Proto-Indo-European religion.

In ancient European, Iranian and Indian agricultural cultures, the life cycles of birth, death, and rebirth were recognized as a cycle. Here again is the "wheel of life" or the "tree of life".

Jainism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Pythagorus, Plato, Pherecydes of Syros, and sooo many more believed in this teaching.

Its a real wonder the main stream Christians are left in the dark.

Even first century BC Alexander Cornelius Polyhistor wrote:
"The Pythagorean doctrine prevails among the Gauls' teaching that the souls of men are immortal, and that after a fixed number of years they will enter into another body."

The second century Bardaisan of Mesopotamia believed and followed the teachings of rebirth.

Its the core of Christianity that changed in order to control people in this lifetime to believe they get no more chances... this is it, do good or be damned for eternity. Would a good father really do that to his creation?

You create the best art, you breathe life into this art, only to trash it and lose it forever or do you make it the best masterpiece you can?

As a great artist, you are inspired. You take pride in it, cherish it, and hold it up in amazement. This is what our "god" does. He cherishes us so much he wishes for none of us to perish.

Jesus may not teach you about rebirth, but he does me. This is all I know.

I also want to add this piece on behalf of the seekers.

Carl Jung, near the end of his life, wrote "I could well imagine that I might have lived in former centuries and there encountered questions I was not yet able to answer; that I had been born again because I had not fulfilled the task given to me."



Here .... below are some great videos as well for the seeker of truth.

reply to post by MamaJ

John speaks of a man sinning... or his parents and this is why the man was born blind.

Once again, your conclusion is a result of not understanding the cultural and religious context of the Bible. Here's the passage in question:

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” (John 9:1-2 NIV)

Your belief is that this speaks to reincarnation, but what the disciples are referring to is the Jewish belief that deformities were a curse from God, and they wondered whether the curse was due to him or his parents. But how could a person be cursed at birth for their sins if they weren't reincarnated?

Refer to Psalm 139:

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.

Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be. (Psalm 139:13-16 NIV)

This is another Jewish belief -- God knows everything about your life before you were even created, and does the actual construction in the womb, so the disciples knew that one possibility was that God knew that the man would be a sinner, and cursed him with blindness while he was putting him together in the womb.

When Jesus explains to Nicodemus the difference between bodily rebirth, "born of water," he is referring to reincarnation and spiritual rebirth, "born of the Spirit," is the true resurrection.

Once again, we need to look at what Jesus said to Nicodemus in context to see the real message.

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. (John 3:1-6 NIV)

In context, we can see that Christ is not talking about multiple instances of birth, but two types of births. He essentially waves off the birth of the flesh and says that salvation comes from the birth of the spirit.

This passage is clearly not about reincarnation.

This passage is clearly not about reincarnation.

reply to post by adjensen


It is to me.... but it isn't to you. So be it.

There are many and if you understood the ancient mythologies you would know it, not just believe in it.

They (myths) are all connected.

God does not create imperfection. We are already made perfect so there is no deformity created, it is earned through reaping what you sow.

Your eyes do not see it, while mine do. Its a disagreement between the two of us.

No offense taken and hopefully you feel no offense to any of my words.

Originally posted by MamaJ
Your eyes do not see it, while mine do. Its a disagreement between the two of us.

It is, perhaps, the result of my faith being a reasoned, not a revealed, one. I can only see what is there or can be reasoned out, and for the Bible, and my own personal experience, that doesn't include reincarnation.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by MamaJ
Your eyes do not see it, while mine do. Its a disagreement between the two of us.

It is, perhaps, the result of my faith being a reasoned, not a revealed, one. I can only see what is there or can be reasoned out, and for the Bible, and my own personal experience, that doesn't include reincarnation.

I think it is rather the fact you were probably indoctrinated at an early age where I was not thus my reasoning is not with bias.

If you are saying you cannot reason out the ancient writings having to do with reincarnation we are in agreement there.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by MamaJ
Your eyes do not see it, while mine do. Its a disagreement between the two of us.

It is, perhaps, the result of my faith being a reasoned, not a revealed, one. I can only see what is there or can be reasoned out, and for the Bible, and my own personal experience, that doesn't include reincarnation.

I think it is rather the fact you were probably indoctrinated at an early age where I was not thus my reasoning is not with bias.

I wasn't raised in the church, so I don't think that's the case.