The Reincarnation Video That Changed My Mind

Originally posted by Wookiep

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Shark_Feeder

 

You do realize if you reincarnate it means you failed in your previous life in some way...

It means you have more learning to do before you can progess.... reincarnation is going backwards my friend

Can you deny reincarnation exists?

S&F for the thread

edit on 18-3-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I would have to respectfully disagree with this. Unless a human being can achieve absolute perfection, there is ALWAYS more to learn. It's in my opinion that 1 life is just a blink of an eye and no-where near long enough to learn and achieve all which needs to be...specially when it comes to the overall lesson being, "love".. Trying to say that one "failed" so they need to "learn more" is hardly a step backwards in my humble opinion.

edit on 18-3-2013 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Perhaps you are right...

You'll have to pardon me with that if you will... I've been debating reincarnation for the past few days...

Maybe i'm getting a bit defensive...

A star for you

Originally posted by Akragon
Originally posted by Wookiep
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Shark_Feeder

 

Perhaps you are right...

You'll have to pardon me with that if you will... I've been debating reincarnation for the past few days...

Maybe i'm getting a bit defensive...

A star for you

Hey, no worries. Discussing things like this (for days especially) can often be as bad as discussing politics.

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
reply to post by adjensen

 

at least watch the first two videos

It's nothing personal against you, the thread or the subject matter -- I do not, as a rule, watch videos posted on ATS.

Youtube videos are the world's worst method of communication of non-superficial ideas (well, maybe standing on a street corner shouting would be worse, lol,) sources are rarely, if ever, cited, and the person who made it is not available to answer questions or address issues.

Even so, as I said earlier, I do not find an adult's testimony to be credible, in any way. By the time a person is an adolescent, they've been exposed to enough cultural and multi-cultural information that it is impossible to say whether they are remembering a past life, or remembering something they learned in this life.

Interestingly, in instances where a person was reporting a "past life" memory, and they were not exposed to multi-cultural information, their memories were exclusively consistent with their own culture, whereas those who were exposed to other cultures were not restricted to past life memories consistent with their own cultures. The inevitable conclusion would be that those memories are not of past lives. I would have to hunt up the source to that study, but if you'd like me to, just ask.

reply to post by adjensen


Here is a post from a fellow Catholic FlyersFan on my thread...

Ever since I was very young, I've had recurring dreams of being a child (5 or 6 years old) in England during WWII. In my dreams I'm on a playground and the airraid sirens go off. I look to my mother who is standing with her friends (my mother THEN .. not now). She and the women are all wearing 1940's style clothing. She says to ignore th sirens because they always go off and nothing happens. Then the next thing I know .. BOOM .. I'm blown up and dead.

Would you say that a 5-6 year old is already "exposed" to a pre-existing culture in this case?

Try to look at this scientifically instead of philosophically... makes the whole thing a lot more plausible.

We know for a fact that what makes up the entire universe... the sun, the Earth, us as individuals is atoms. Or more precisely, atoms bundled together in certain amounts or a certain order. This cannot be denied.

We also by now know that atoms consists of even smaller things which I boldly will just refer to as energy.

Fact of energy is that it cannot be created, it cannot be destroyed, it just is. In any given space and time, there is a specific amount of energy present, it might change locally but it does not change if you look at the whole picture.

Your brain is nothing but an interpreter of energy. Your senses are the tools the brain uses to interpret the energy that surrounds and interacts with you. But in the end the brain itself is nothing but a combination of atoms and energy.... they are just shaped in a specific way to be utilised by the vessel that is your body.

Since no energy is ever created or destroyed that has to go somewhere when we die. Some of the energy turns into the concept of dirt through the combination of energy we call worm of maggots.
Some of the energy remains as bone.... (funny how that energy combination seems to be so persistent eh?)

But what about the rest? If you touch a very scented flower or rub it against your clothes, you'd be able to smell it for quite a while after. The energy from that flower somehow is lodged into the energy combinations that make up your coat, shirt scarf... what ever.

What if memories are the same thing?

I mean, we know memories exist, we all have them. And if something exists it must be made of a combination of energy that is interpretable by the human brain.
So when the disruption of energy that is the human body and all it encompasses occur, who's to say that some of the energy combinations that make up a childhood memory couldn't persist to be lodged onto a new entity or be picked up by a new receiver?

As such, it might not even be a question of reincarnation, but rather a random chance of picking up someones previous life because the energy of those memories flows freely yet intact for a while.

Originally posted by Akragon
Would you say that a 5-6 year old is already "exposed" to a pre-existing culture in this case?

1. She doesn't say that she was 5-6 years old when she had those dreams, rather that she was dreaming of being a 5-6 year old
2. They are dreams, not memories
3. Yes, there is no reason that a young child (even one who was five or six) could not have been exposed to something related to the Blitz on television

reply to post by adjensen


Do you know exactly what the nature of dreams are?

I think i'll have to invite her to participate here, and you can discuss that with her...

I have my ideas of what dreams are, but I admit that I don't know for certain...

The overwhelming preponderance of direct, indirect and anecdotal evidence underpins the truth and existence of the reincarnation model. The Leslie Flint recordings, Ian Stevenson-Jim Tucker scientific studies (especially their "Twins" work), the teachings of Silver Birch, Schwartz pre-birth planning books, the efficacy of modern past and between lives regressions (and the cessation of pain and other ailments)... the list goes on and on and on....and on.

Only an ostrich, head in sands, could deny reincarnation.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Do you know exactly what the nature of dreams are?

I'm not a psychologist, but there is an obvious problem with believing that they are sourced from "past lives" -- the population is ever increasing, indicating millions who cannot be reincarnated, because there aren't enough dead people to account for them, and yet we don't simultaneously have millions of people who never dream.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Do you know exactly what the nature of dreams are?

I'm not a psychologist, but there is an obvious problem with believing that they are sourced from "past lives" -- the population is ever increasing, indicating millions who cannot be reincarnated, because there aren't enough dead people to account for them, and yet we don't simultaneously have millions of people who never dream.

I don't understand why people use that argument...

As far as we've found there is no intelligent life other then us in the universe... but is that a rational position anymore considering we do know how big our universe is... and theres possibilities of other ones as well according to string theory

Perhaps a lot of people are incarnated here for a reason to come in our future...

Who knows....

Originally posted by Akragon
I don't understand why people use that argument...

Why? Because it's rational. And I didn't say that it was an argument against reincarnation, I said it was an argument against dreams being the result of prior life memories.

As far as we've found there is no intelligent life other then us in the universe... but is that a rational position anymore considering we do know how big our universe is... and theres possibilities of other ones as well according to string theory

So far as I can remember, I've never heard of anyone claiming past lives as an alien. I suppose that there is probably a kook or two that one can track down, but if the universe is full of life (which I think is likely the case) and they all potentially reincarnate into other species, then the chance that a human being would have a past life as a human being would approach zero.

In other words, rationally, either people don't reincarnate from alien species or there are no alien species.

reply to post by adjensen


Fair enough...

Now if sometime in the future we do encounter some alien species... and one of them recalls living a past life here...

Would he be just some alien kook too?

Originally posted by Akragon
Now if sometime in the future we do encounter some alien species... and one of them recalls living a past life here...

Would he be just some alien kook too?

I'd have to assess the cultural contamination possibility before coming to a conclusion

reply to post by solongandgoodnight


Adjensen is right, you lost me at hypnotic regression.

These are personal accounts, nothing more and convincing only to those willing to indulge in circular reasoning. In order to show that reincarnation happens we need some kind of evidence that human beings can both survive death in a non-physical form and that this non-physical "substance" or soul can be passed on to a new person.

The human imagination is an incredible thing, when prompted it is easy to summon up names, dates, places and events that never actually happened to the person. Hunting down these details to find that they were true would be like cold reading, you are astounded by the hits and ignore all the misses. The details are lost or smudged by the malleability of memory.

This is my belief and if you think about it makes sense but you make your own decision. I believe when people think they have been reincarnated and have memories of a past life or lives, they were actually someones guardian angel. That's why they have the memories because a guardian angel is with you most of the time, some people have more than one. Now this takes a belief in God and angels and all that and most of all it takes Faith. You really can't look at this from a scientific perspective because it just won't make much sense.

reply to post by solongandgoodnight


You obviously believe in reincarnation, and that's fine.

But you do realise those videos you put up are probably faked?

Think about it: some folk decide to make a programme about reincarnation.

Clearly they wish to convey the message that reincarnation is real, so, even if no fakery is employed, they are bound to only show details that support their belief and ignore stuff that doesn't support it.

But I think it highly likely that they will fake at least some of it, because at the end of the day they are promoting an idea and a product (the programme).

Suppose they flew those women all the way from Australia to Europe and their past-life memories suddenly deserted them? Do you suppose they would show this on the documentary?

No one should form their beliefs on the strength of a TV programme/documentary.

Regardless of the subject matter, they are all biased in favour of the product they are promoting.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
Would you say that a 5-6 year old is already "exposed" to a pre-existing culture in this case?

1. She doesn't say that she was 5-6 years old when she had those dreams, rather that she was dreaming of being a 5-6 year old
2. They are dreams, not memories
3. Yes, there is no reason that a young child (even one who was five or six) could not have been exposed to something related to the Blitz on television

Okay ... lemme' comment.

Ever since I was a child I have been having these dreams. So yes .. I was 5 or 6 when I had them, and I've had them all my life. In the dream, I was also something like 5 or 6. I was a child on a playground who died in a Blitz in London during WWII.

I believe that these are both dreams and memories. They are dreams OF memories.

I didn't watch the Blitz on TV. Not at 5 or 6 years old. I was into Captain Kangaroo and The Electric Company and later on Zoom .. kids programming. And TV back then (mid 1960's) was very different. We had one TV that got in 3 stations .. and none of it was violent or blood filled. Not like today ...

The reason I think they are memories is because they were so detailed. A 5 year old child (in the 1960's) wouldn't know about fashions of the depression WWII era in England. The adult women in my dream/memory had on clothing that was of that time period .. dresses down between the knee and the ankle ... whereas in the late 1960's when these dreams happened, all the girls I knew and saw were wearing VERY SHORT dresses. The mothers standing on the side of the playground in my dream/memory had on dull browns and off whites and had blouses .... but in the 1960's my little friends and I (and our mothers) wore shirt very colorful dresses.

When I was young (5 or 6 ) I remember asking my mother where New York City was. She told me that it was about a hundred miles South West of us. I remember telling her we were too close to the big city and we needed to move away to be safe. And I was afraid that being North East of the city would mean that when New York was bombed then we'd all die from all the poison in the air coming our way. I don't know any 5 or 6 year old from that time period who thought like that. Not even the adults.

When ever the town fire whistle would blow, I'd get a quick cold sweat and want to hide. To this day, if I see a movie on TV and the air raid siren goes off ... I get nervous. I know it's silly .. but the sound gets to me ...

******************************************
Since this is a religious type discussion I'll add my thoughts. I was raised Catholic but I"m not blind to the truth that can be found in some other faiths ... like the Buddhists and the Native American beliefs. It is my believe that God can do whatever He wants .. He is God and completely in charge. Even though the Christian beliefs all say that there is only one life time on earth, I am of the belief that since God can do what He wants with His creation, then He may decide to allow people to come back for another lifetime if they wish to come back .. or He may decide to send them back on His own ... or whatever. God is God. He can do what He wishes and isn't obligated to follow what men have written in 'holy books'.

There may not be reincarnation .. but my experience tells me that there easily could be. And that goes just fine with my belief that there is a God and that He is in charge and He can do whatever He wishes ....

Okay??

Originally posted by adjensen
I'm not a psychologist, but there is an obvious problem with believing that they are sourced from "past lives" --

My degree is in psychology. (I don't have a masters so I'm not a psychologist)

Sure .. lots of what are in dreams are taken from life and experience. But when a 5 year old child has very vivid dreams of life in WWII London .. and that child has had no contact with any information from that time period or any time period like it ... then that information had to come from somewhere, right?

So I believe it is POSSIBLE that the information was held over from a past life experience. I'm open to it. Like Carl Jung was open to different dimensions and aspects of life that we aren't fully aware of.

(read up on Carl Jung ... awesome psychotherapist and psychiatrist!! )

Originally posted by CJCrawley
reply to post by solongandgoodnight

 

You obviously believe in reincarnation, and that's fine.

But you do realise those videos you put up are probably faked?

Think about it: some folk decide to make a programme about reincarnation.

Clearly they wish to convey the message that reincarnation is real, so, even if no fakery is employed, they are bound to only show details that support their belief and ignore stuff that doesn't support it.

But I think it highly likely that they will fake at least some of it, because at the end of the day they are promoting an idea and a product (the programme).

Suppose they flew those women all the way from Australia to Europe and their past-life memories suddenly deserted them? Do you suppose they would show this on the documentary?

No one should form their beliefs on the strength of a TV programme/documentary.

Regardless of the subject matter, they are all biased in favour of the product they are promoting.

yes that has for sure crossed my mind many times. but i will say this video got me thinking, and with my own personal experiences i believe reincarnation to be as real as you and me in the here and now. i will say i'm glad that you posted this because it is very possible this was faked, but it is also very possible that it was not. i guess that in itself makes it interesting.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by solongandgoodnight

 

Adjensen is right, you lost me at hypnotic regression.

These are personal accounts, nothing more and convincing only to those willing to indulge in circular reasoning. In order to show that reincarnation happens we need some kind of evidence that human beings can both survive death in a non-physical form and that this non-physical "substance" or soul can be passed on to a new person.

The human imagination is an incredible thing, when prompted it is easy to summon up names, dates, places and events that never actually happened to the person. Hunting down these details to find that they were true would be like cold reading, you are astounded by the hits and ignore all the misses. The details are lost or smudged by the malleability of memory.

pretty good points i suppose, but in the videos i don't recall many misses at all if there were any. having said that, if you are not willing to look at the possibility of past lives, you will not see them. right now your mind is closed to it so you will never see it. which is fine. believing in something you don't quite understand can sometimes feel like a loss of control and that can be terrifying. thanks for your comments.