MI6 and CIA were told before invasion that Iraq had no active WMD

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

If you followed the war news back in the day this isn't new news. Iraq gave them all the information about how they had destroyed the weapons after the first gulf war, with a room full of back-up documents. Hussein never thought the U.S. would attack him, because he had provided all the information asked for. The American and British administrations were corrupt and unprincipled, and about a hundred other names, including war criminals. History will not treat them kindly.

I don't at all support the US' imperialist foreign policy, nor did I ever believe for a minute that we were there for reasons other than Oil, but the following statement from that article doesn't sit well with me:

Fresh evidence is revealed today about how MI6 and the CIA were told through secret channels by Saddam Hussein's foreign minister and his head of intelligence that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction.

To me, assuming I understand the grammar correctly, this is saying that people from within the nation about to be "liberated" were denying that they had weapons in the first place. Well, duh. Either they are lying out of their teeth (a la North Korea), or they truly didn't have them, and this was their attempt at diplomacy before invasion.

tl;dr, The Iraqi politicians are obviously biased in their own favor.

Had the intelligence that no WMDs exist in Iraq come from an "independent third-party", then I could take this article a little more seriously.

Originally posted by neo96

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by neo96

 

Why are you posting that video?

You realise Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11?

It seems you're just scraping around for other reasons to justify the Iraq invasion now.

Unless you're meaning something else?

Yeah "sponsors" of terrorists who "hate" Amerika and have the ability to manufacture wmds has nothing to do with "terrorism".

Iraq who was mentioned in that speech, as was Iran as with North Korea

North Korea seals the lie... because we know for fact that they have a lot of bad things. Simply because they can't seem to stop bragging about it haha.

Iran.... NEVER confirmed.... more lies repeated to seal the deal eventually. Remember the zionist lies about the 6 million jews that persisted for 40 years and culminated in 1945? Great examples of how the propaganda war machine works. In the next coming months you will be lead to believe by Warbama that Iran is a threat, his rethoric will be cool at first, then demanding, then decisive and then he will... publicly reluctant, but paid off by Israel, go to war with Iran.

Iraq.... come on.... the man was a cook, but dammit, America and generations of presidents created him.

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

If you followed the war news back in the day this isn't new news. Iraq gave them all the information about how they had destroyed the weapons after the first gulf war, with a room full of back-up documents. Hussein never thought the U.S. would attack him, because he had provided all the information asked for. The American and British administrations were corrupt and unprincipled, and about a hundred other names, including war criminals. History will not treat them kindly.

Quoted for the truth....

2nd

reply to post by Aleister


I agree with everything you said except for:

If you followed the war news back in the day this isn't new news.

I did follow the war news back in the day.

I already explained this earlier in the thread but I will one more time most of this will be a copy and paste from my earlier post.

This is new news due to the fact that the article discusses "fresh evidence" that will be revealed on a BBC programme this evening.

A special BBC Panorama programme tonight will reveal how British and US intelligence agencies were informed by top sources months before the invasion that Iraq had no active WMD programme, and that the information was not passed to subsequent inquiries.

SInce the article came out today and the evidence is alleged to be "fresh" it certainly falls within new news criteria.

As I said to the other member, in your defense, many of us have known this to be true for years regardless of any new evidence that may be presented.

Once again I will say I agreed with the rest of your post.

To be fair. The truth was out there and the vast majority of the world population knew about. Remember the demonstrations to prevent the US from invading Iraq - in all major European and Asian cities? No, the war was not based on lies, it was based on the bloodthirst of the US public. The lies just made it easier to justify the bloodthirst. I remember the time pretty well and how most Americans in the internet wanted to see Iraq carpetbombed because of 911. the polls back then did cast a clear picture. Iraq, Saudiarabia, who cares, some Arab had to pay the bill. Funny how Saudiarabia never got into the focus of US foreign politics. Its a shamefull part of american history. Despite all the trouble the US foreign politics are better now. Far from perfect, but less naive and destructive.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Interesting information to add to the stack..but I have a question. Why would they have believed these guys? They were in a position they were about to lose if we invaded (We sacked the WHOLE Government and authority structure and that was a predictable move for us). Aside from the fact, other "high level sources" who the public later learned were fabricating little trolls ...also said they did exist. Also Saddam's henchmen saying it. Who to believe?

I supported the invasion at the time because I believed Bush and TPTB must have more information. There must be plenty in the "Classified" stack the public simply wasn't seeing to make it all logical and right. In discovering over the years since how unfounded that hope and faith had been, I'll be the first to nominate Cheney in particular, but Bush as well, for a seat in a Witness chair and their very own Defendants table. Not international (This is America...not the UN.. Global Courts can stick it) but U.S. accounting for what happened.

^^^ having said that, so someone doesn't claim I'm some shill for Bush or whatever... This just seems opportunistic of the BBC. We invaded Iraq, ostensibly, on the intelligence and data derived by insiders of the Saddam regime...but then we were supposed to call it off because OTHER insiders of the same regime said it wasn't so? Err...

There is fire beneath the smoke for people like the BBC to find..Indeed. I think this is fluff and poor journalism though. Just my opinion.

No WMD in Iraq. Lied and said there was.

Countless lives lost. Countless injured.

$800 billion wasted.

Bush was a member of Skull and Bones right? Not sure if Jr or Senior. Either way, the agenda of some people (Illuminati?), has yet to be seen.

I'm curious for more information on how the statue was staged? I recall the investigation run on that because Bush and others were horrified at the symbolism of the US flag in the face of such P.C. priorities that it seemed to matter more than securing the Baghdad Museums or other locations of true treasure being looted at that very moment.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Army report confirms psy-ops staged Saddam statue toppling

July 3, 2004 – An internal Army study of the war in Iraq has confirmed that the infamous toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein in Firdos Square in central Baghdad on April 9, 2003 was stage-managed by American troops and not a spontaneous reaction by Iraqis. According to the study, a Marine colonel first decided to topple the statue, and an Army psychological operations unit turned the event into a propaganda moment. At one point during the stunt Marines draped the statue of Saddam Hussein with an American flag. When the crowd reacted negatively to that gesture, the US flag was replaced with a pre-1990 Iraqi flag, missing the words "God is Great," by a sergeant from the psychological operations unit. The Marines brought in cheering Iraqi children in order to make the scene appear authentic, the study said. Allegations that the event was staged were made in April of last year, mostly by opponents of the war, but were ignored or ridiculed by the US government and most visible media outlets.

Here's another...

Saddam Statue Scene Staged

There's also videos on you tube that show how sparse the crowd really was.

reply to post by Gazrok


Where is the evidence for these claims that the WMD's were moved into Syria & Jordan? There were no WMD's the majority had been destroyed by weapon inspectors after the first Gulf war. There were remnants, but Iraq's WMD programme was effectively extinct.

I agree that he carried out alot of atrocities against his people, but does this vindicate an invasion? If so, maybe we should invade China?

I have just watced the Panorama programme and the informer 'Curve Ball' admitted he made everything up and actually grinned after saying it. This man is responsible for how many deaths? So many we will never know the true figure. However, I would wager far more that Saddam Hussein disposed of.

not money lost. how many western countries are now using the resources of Iraq.

i have just watched the program and come to the conclusion the problems were with Americas lapdog Blair and presedent bush.

the program asked for interviews with Blair and Bush but they were too busy to be interviewed.

mi6 and the cia were passing information back to the repective governments and even said some defector agents were of unreliable character. even germanys intelligence said that certain defectors were unreliable.

after watching this program the war was just about oil (which i had supected for a while).

this story is quite similar for Libya (France and Italy wanted oil).

same story different country

Being told by the potential enemy that they don't have what you are going to bomb them for means nothing at all.

They did have some wmds in the form of vx and other gas shells. Still nothing to get worked up about and the invasion was still wrong.I hardly call chem weapons wmds anyway. Big booms & bio agents, yes!

Half of us have a chem weapon in our tap water. Will someone invade and "liberate" us?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The US government is the worst in some people's eyes because they are supposed to be the standard of good and righteousness in the world, or so we are told. We are the richest and most successful nation to have ever graced this earth and therefore are held to higher standards. We have the ability to wage total war and as many great philosophers point out, just because you have the capacity to wage war it does not give you the right to do so.

A true patriot is continuously weary of his government and I have no qualms exposing and shining a light on our governments quest towards hegemony and their imperialistic tendencies. We are supposed to be held to a higher standard. That's what tickles me about the whole "military tribunal" thing.. Although somewhat off topic, what is it the Constitution says? That our rights are God given. Not given to us by our government. People want to use dangerously broad strokes and prosecute others for "terrorism" and deny them rights because they are not US citizens. In my eyes, the bad guys win when we change our ways and do not uphold the rule of law. We violate the sanctity of human rights when we should be the champion of such things. I could go on and on about the faults of our justice system but it's still the best we've ever had, there is no reason to subject these "enemy combatants" to different procedures except for when the government wants to hide things from its people and throw people in jail indefinitely based on faulty evidence.

As far as Saddam and Iraq, we do hold a responsibility. A big one. We helped install him as dictator. We backed him in his war with Iran. We looked the other way when he committed atrocities when it had nothing to do with us. We sold him the chemical and biological weapons he used on the Kurds and his own people. www.dailymail.co.uk...

Some like to believe Saddam moved his weapons to Syria but that has in fact been debunked, as well, and I'm not prone to believe the recent stories of Assad and chemicals weapons either.

No, Syria Doesn’t Have Saddam’s Chemical Weapons - Wired
www.wired.com...

THAT is the truth of politics in this day and age. The other poster (tinkerbell) is right when they say governments don't give a damn about right and wrong, they care about expediency. What is right for us at the time. Which is such a corrupt and backward way of thinking it has helped hasten our downfall in the eyes of the international community, and even many of us at home.

We are the bastion of freedom and the force of good and it's high time we actually start acting like it, instead of just employing the rhetoric yet as far as action goes we do the complete opposite.

There are words for this sort of thing... Corruption, hypocrisy, etc.

"The uniformity of opinion molded by the media is reinforced through the skillfully orchestrated mass emotions of nationalism and patriotism, which paint all dissidents as "soft" or "unpatriotic." The "patriotic" citizen, plagued by fear of job losses and possible terrorist attacks, unfailingly supports widespread surveillance and the militarized state. There is no questioning of the $1 trillion spent each year on defense. Military and intelligence agencies are held above government, as if somehow they are not part of the government. The most powerful instruments of state control effectively have no public oversight. We, as imperial citizens, are taught to be contemptuous of government bureaucracy, yet we stand like sheep before Homeland Security agents in airports and are mute when Congress permits our private correspondence and conversations to be monitored and archived. We endure more state control than at any time in U.S. history.

And yet the civic, patriotic, and political language we use to describe ourselves remains unchanged. We pay fealty to the same national symbols and iconography. We find our collective identity in the same national myths. We continue to deify the founding fathers. But the America we celebrate is an illusion. It does not exist."
- Chris Hedges

Originally posted by PatriotGames2
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The US government is the worst in some people's eyes because they are supposed to be the standard of good and righteousness in the world, or so we are told. We are the richest and most successful nation to have ever graced this earth and therefore are held to higher standards. We have the ability to wage total war and as many great philosophers point out, just because you have the capacity to wage war it does not give you the right to do so.

A true patriot is continuously weary of his government and I have no qualms exposing and shining a light on our governments quest towards hegemony and their imperialistic tendencies. We are supposed to be held to a higher standard. That's what tickles me about the whole "military tribunal" thing.. Although somewhat off topic, what is it the Constitution says? That our rights are God given. Not given to us by our government. People want to use dangerously broad strokes and prosecute others for "terrorism" and deny them rights because they are not US citizens. In my eyes, the bad guys win when we change our ways and do not uphold the rule of law. We violate the sanctity of human rights when we should be the champion of such things. I could go on and on about the faults of our justice system but it's still the best we've ever had, there is no reason to subject these "enemy combatants" to different procedures except for when the government wants to hide things from its people and throw people in jail indefinitely based on faulty evidence.

As far as Saddam and Iraq, we do hold a responsibility. A big one. We helped install him as dictator. We backed him in his war with Iran. We looked the other way when he committed atrocities when it had nothing to do with us. We sold him the chemical and biological weapons he used on the Kurds and his own people.

THAT is the truth of politics in this day and age. The other poster (tinkerbell) is right when they say governments don't give a damn about right and wrong, they care about expediency. What is right for us at the time. Which is such a corrupt and backward way of thinking it has helped hasten our downfall in the eyes of the international community, and even many of us at home.

We are the bastion of freedom and the force of good and it's high time we actually start acting like it, instead of just employing the rhetoric yet as far as action goes we do the complete opposite.

There are words for this sort of thing... Corruption, hypocrisy, etc.

"The uniformity of opinion molded by the media is reinforced through the skillfully orchestrated mass emotions of nationalism and patriotism, which paint all dissidents as "soft" or "unpatriotic." The "patriotic" citizen, plagued by fear of job losses and possible terrorist attacks, unfailingly supports widespread surveillance and the militarized state. There is no questioning of the $1 trillion spent each year on defense. Military and intelligence agencies are held above government, as if somehow they are not part of the government. The most powerful instruments of state control effectively have no public oversight. We, as imperial citizens, are taught to be contemptuous of government bureaucracy, yet we stand like sheep before Homeland Security agents in airports and are mute when Congress permits our private correspondence and conversations to be monitored and archived. We endure more state control than at any time in U.S. history.

And yet the civic, patriotic, and political language we use to describe ourselves remains unchanged. We pay fealty to the same national symbols and iconography. We find our collective identity in the same national myths. We continue to deify the founding fathers. But the America we celebrate is an illusion. It does not exist."
- Chris Hedges

edit on 18-3-2013 by PatriotGames2 because: (no reason given)

Wrong thread?

The sad reality is that about 90% or more of the Western population simply do not care at all. They’re more interested in the latest bullsh!t pop song or what those clowns on Jersey Shore are doing... That’s the forlorn world we live in at the moment. Politics is considered to be “boring”, yet Justin Timberlake is considered to be “talented” and the Kardashians are “entertaining”... Politics are incredibly important and actually interesting. Timberlake is terrible, frankly, absolutely shocking. And the Kardashians are boring, money hungry losers of no value to society in any constructive manner. And the fat one looks like Miss Piggy from the Muppets.

Anyway, I’ve always been opposed to this war. Unjustified, unneeded. How many US, Australian and British soldiers have lost their lives and for what? A threat of mass destruction which was a lie all along? Money for the US? Control of the area’s oil reserves and huge military and rebuilding contracts? Looting the nation’s gold and whatever else? Based on this precedent, Russia and China would have every right to invade the US on the same grounds; despot leader, certain weapons of mass destruction, war crimes... What would be the difference?

And how many puppets around here are still parroting the anti french propaganda ?

They rather believe the lies of their govs and keep on spreading the lies. Where the french were indeed right in saying this invasion wasnt warranted.

I don't think for a minute naivety was the basis for all this mayhem, in fact I think this is just the beginning of perhaps revealing something far deeper, that was/is going on. What we do know, that there already was gross 'intelligence failure' before 9/11, yet Tenet knew immediately taking his breakfast on 9/11 who was 'responsible' he fecking well said so. Tony Blair is on record as saying post invasion, that Saddam had to be dealt with. Peter Taylor acknowledges that in his commentary, and all the while still constrained from speculating on how George Tenet knew (1) about those 'responsible' for 9/11 and (2) also knew that the 45 minute story was rubbish, in fact George Tenet's 9/11 breakfast comments are not mentioned, perhaps Taylor was not allowed to include that, or that it was deemed not relevant, or speculation.

You know, the most inhumane and sickening thing about this whole dirty affair with all the lies, done to prop up political positions and such, is the fact that they did this at the expense of peoples kids in the military.. Sending people to die in a false war just to make a profit of political power or money..

.. I knew deep down at the time that the whole thing was a power play, it wasn't hard to see it in the way it was all presented to the masses... Bush Sr. was riding in on the coat tails of Reagan and he felt he had to exploit all that power even further...

The only way these people will ever be made to pay for what they have done is not printable here.

If all the corrupt people in power right now were made to pay for what they have done, you would need an awful lot of body bags... So it just isn't going to happen...

reply to post by capone1


No.

Responding to conversation from the first few pages. I'm hardly the only one in these forums to get a little off topic when responding/debating/conversing.

Originally posted by Chrysalis
And how many puppets around here are still parroting the anti french propaganda ?

They rather believe the lies of their govs and keep on spreading the lies. Where the french were indeed right in saying this invasion wasnt warranted.

Agreed, and so did the Germans, all that is well known, although the Germans could have reiterated that when Colin Powell was making the UN speech. Lord Butler's comments are also a complete distancing of the whole affair, since his chair recommended more scrutiny of intelligence, while all the while, he says there was stuff he didn't know about. Chilcott, ahem, was also on that inquiry. I think what Peter Taylor has presented is a 'look for yourselves' docu' as the only way.