Just In: Blackout at Fukushima Daiichi — Cooling at fuel pools stopped, all power’s been down 3h

reply to post by Iwinder


The question was asked if there was a radiation release that caused the blackout. I answered, and you brought up the fact that it's my opinion and opinion only that it couldn't have. So yes, we are talking about the same thing as the OP.

Originally posted by Iwinder

Obviously my statement was not absurd as I agree with your last paragraph in your above quote.

Nobody saw this coming and nobody predicted/nor planned for this which they should have.

A nuclear power plant built on a major fault just 50 meters from the sea?

We are all doomed.
Regards, Iwinder

Seriously, are you trying to be intellectually dishonest here? I'm not understanding how you can be so blind to the inconsistencies of your statements.

You said nobody could predict an earthquake or tsunami. You then said that nobody could prepare for this earthquake. Both of those are 100% FALSE!!

Then you change the goalposts and said "Nobody saw this coming and nobody predicted/nor planned for this which they should have."

These are two entirely different things you're claiming now. Do you not see the difference

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

That's not the only threat though. Human stupidity and a lackadaisical attitude also contribute.
Just look at how the nuclear power plant in Louisa, VA had its earthquake sensors removed to "save money". The geniuses figured that since they hadn't had an earthquake in that area for several decades, they didn't need the sensors anymore and removed them. We all know how this area has gotten a lot of earthquake activity recently, but it's rarely reported on the damage and repairs that are going on with the power plant.

Jesus I have never heard of that one, right in our yard too!
That makes stupidity world wide and on a major scale.

Sweet dreams for all.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Afterthought


No it's not the only threat. But that had to do with someone asking if there could have been a radiation release from the plant that caused the blackout.

reply to post by CommanderCraCra

Go back one page and read my post about Louisa, VA's nuke plant.
These idiots thought they could predict that there wouldn't ever be an earthquake in that area again, so they removed the safety features within the plant.
Yes, people do believe they can predict earthquakes or no earthquakes and it sucks for those around them when they're wrong. Very wrong!

reply to post by Afterthought


That's not the only plant either. Nuclear power isn't safe, by any stretch of the imagination, but you know what? It's better than coal plants. Nuclear plants have been operating for decades, in large numbers (France operates something like over 10% of their power grid by nuclear power), and there have only been two level 7 events. That's two too many, but until we can come up with something as cheap as coal, and cleaner and as efficient as nuclear, then like coal, it's a necessary evil that we're going to have to live with.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Helium 3.

Mine the moon already.

Make it a moral imperative to have the project in operation within 1,000 days.

Originally posted by Iwinder

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

That's not the only threat though. Human stupidity and a lackadaisical attitude also contribute.
Just look at how the nuclear power plant in Louisa, VA had its earthquake sensors removed to "save money". The geniuses figured that since they hadn't had an earthquake in that area for several decades, they didn't need the sensors anymore and removed them. We all know how this area has gotten a lot of earthquake activity recently, but it's rarely reported on the damage and repairs that are going on with the power plant.

Jesus I have never heard of that one, right in our yard too!
That makes stupidity world wide and on a major scale.

Sweet dreams for all.
Regards, Iwinder

Yes, and not many people were even reporting on it on ATS either. I think there was one thread about it. It's caused a lot of problems in that area, but the full extent of the damage is not being reported, which is why I don't believe the reports on Fukushima either. Louisa has had reports and warning to the residents about groundwater contamination, but then state that it isn't from the nuke plant. Lots of disinfo going on with this one, so I don't see how anyone can trust the reports about these plants when they're experiencing problems. I think the ones in charge are more concerned with social damage control and making sure everyone is brainwashed into believing that everything's just fine. Very sad indeed.

Originally posted by CommanderCraCra

Originally posted by Iwinder

Obviously my statement was not absurd as I agree with your last paragraph in your above quote.

Nobody saw this coming and nobody predicted/nor planned for this which they should have.

A nuclear power plant built on a major fault just 50 meters from the sea?

We are all doomed.
Regards, Iwinder

Seriously, are you trying to be intellectually dishonest here? I'm not understanding how you can be so blind to the inconsistencies of your statements.

You said nobody could predict an earthquake or tsunami. You then said that nobody could prepare for this earthquake. Both of those are 100% FALSE!!

Then you change the goalposts and said "Nobody saw this coming and nobody predicted/nor planned for this which they should have."

These are two entirely different things you're claiming now. Do you not see the difference

I said nobody can predict and earthquake and nobody can predict a tsunami, what I meant by that statement was you cannot predict the severity of either....that is a fact.

You are correct that I stated "nobody saw this coming" because they set the bar low enough for the ok to build the plant but with not real thought about where they were building and what the ramifications might be during say a Hurricane/Earthquake/Tsunami/ etc pick your poison.

Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by MariaLida
[Analysis]
The sudden blackout revealed the weakness of Fukushima plant, “Reactor4 has 4 days to go”

13 hours after ..

What exactly happened ?

At 18:57, the plant lost power. Even the seismic isolation building, where is the managing office of the entire plant lost power temporarily. The reason of the blackout is not identified yet. Tepco is receives the power from Tohoku-epco, but they can’t send it to the spent fuel pools.

■ Systems out of power Kurion -a cesium adsorption system Coolant system of the spent fuel pool in reactor1, 3, 4 Coolant system of the common spent fuel pool

■ Systems not out of power Reactor coolant system for reactor1, 2 and 3 Monitoring posts Gas monitoring systems for reactor1, 2 and 3 Coolant system of the spent fuel pool in reactor2

At 5AM in JST, the power is not back on yet.

fukushima-diary.com...

edit on 18-3-2013 by MariaLida because: (no reason given)

Kyodo at 6:41p ET: Fukushima Daiichi power failure still underway — Residents anxious — Tepco remains unable to fix problem
March 18th, 2013 at 7:39 pm ET

Kyodo News, 6:41p ET: [TEPCO] still remained unable as of Tuesday morning to resume the spent fuel cooling system at its Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant after the system’s suspension on Monday due to a power failure. TEPCO is continuing its probe into the cause of the outage affecting the cooling system for the spent fuel pools of the No. 1, 3 and 4 reactors. According to the Nuclear Regulation Authority, the outage may have stemmed from the power distribution board or cables attached to it. [...]

Kyodo News, 4:20p ET: Residents of Fukushima Prefecture expressed anxiety about an outage hit the disaster-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant on Monday. Masahide Matsumoto, mayor of Katsurao village where all of its residents have been forced to evacuate after the March 2011 nuclear disaster, said that the incident came at a sensitive time as evacuation zones are scheduled to be reclassified Friday and some residents are allowed to make day trips to their homes. [...]

enenews.com...

reply to post by MariaLida


Thank you MariaLida, for the ACTUAL updates! Appreciated!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Afterthought

 

Nuclear plants have been operating for decades, in large numbers (France operates something like over 10% of their power grid by nuclear power), and there have only been two level 7 events.

Around 77% actually, only slightly off.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Zaphod58


That's your rebuttal? Coal Plants are worse, so we have to stick with nuclear plants?
I'm in support of hydrogen plants. Sure, they can explode and kill those working in and around the plant, but they won't contaminate the environment near and far while contaminating generations of people. Not only can they produce electricity, but they can produce clean water, too.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Afterthought

 

That's not the only plant either. Nuclear power isn't safe, by any stretch of the imagination, but you know what? It's better than coal plants. Nuclear plants have been operating for decades, in large numbers (France operates something like over 10% of their power grid by nuclear power), and there have only been two level 7 events. That's two too many, but until we can come up with something as cheap as coal, and cleaner and as efficient as nuclear, then like coal, it's a necessary evil that we're going to have to live with.

Coal plants have been operating for hundreds of years not just decades.
How many coal plants have had a Level 7 event?
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Afterthought


No, my rebuttal is that like coal plants, they're a necessary evil. Coal plants keep costs down, but pump out hundreds of tons of radiation into an area around them. Nuclear plants have the potential for a Chernobyl type accident, but are more efficient, don't require large amounts of fuel to be pumped into them, don't spew the waste that a coal plant does, but leave tons of radioactive waste behind that has to be stored safely. They're both horrible choices, but living downwind of a nuclear plant that operates normally during its lifetime doesn't have the higher risk of cancer and other illnesses that coal does.

I'd love to see them both go away for something better, but right now, there's not a better choice than either of them. Solar and wind require huge areas to produce small amounts of power. Hydro is better, but not everywhere can have a hydropower plant. Our choices are limited in what we have, and both are necessary evils right now.

reply to post by Iwinder


You do realize coal plants have killled many, many, many more people than either of these level 7 events, correct?

Industry kills off millions each year due to pollution, and a good chunk of that is coal being burned.

reply to post by ThinkYouSpeak


I completely agree although there are very few places in the world which never see a natural disaster. Personally I think a more responsible idea would be simply to not use nuclear power except perhaps in space where it is less likely to have a global impact unless it's in orbit.

reply to post by Zaphod58


You didn't address helium 3 mining.

It's both technologically, and economically feasible. All that is lacking is the political will.

I think it's obvious this is because of our fourth branch of government, ie special interest groups.

reply to post by MariaLida

As stated above in another post thanks so much for keeping us up to date.

Much much appreciated.

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by MariaLida

reply to post by MariaLida


14 hours after ..

TOKYO, Japan
March 18, 2013 (ENS)

TOKYO, Japan, March 18, 2013 (ENS) – A power blackout occurred today at Japan’s damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, knocking out the system that cools four pools of water holding spent fuel rods.

Operator Tokyo Electric Power Company, TEPCO, said the blackout took place just before 7 pm Monday.

The affected system is used to cool three pools containing about 2,100 spent fuel rods from the plant’s number 1, 3, and 4 reactors, which suffered core meltdowns in the week following the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami that knocked out power to Fukushima Daiichi.
Fukushima Daiichi

Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. View from the top of Unit 4 looks toward Units 3, 2 and 1. The twisted metal in the middle distance is the top of Unit 3, where high radiation is slowing work. The cranes are operated remotely from the Emergency Response Center. December 18, 2012 (Photo by Gill Tudor / IAEA)

TEPCO said the blackout also has interrupted the cooling system for another pool containing about 6,300 rods, and it has also affected part of a system that disposes of contaminated water.

TEPCO officials said a total of about 8,500 spent fuel rods are stored in the four pools.

Company officials say the power outage has not halted the injection of coolant into the damaged reactors. They reported that at four pm temperatures in the pools were measured at 25 degrees Celsius. Temperatures are said to be rising at 0.1 to 0.3 degrees Celsius per hour.

The officials said it will take about four days for temperatures in the pools to exceed 65 degrees – the legal limit. “There is no problem with the spent fuel pool water temperature control considering that there is a sufficient margin to the maximum allowed temperature (65°C),” TEPCO said in a statement.

However, today a new all-time high radiation level was reported in a fish near the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. The fish was caught at the port adjacent to the nuclear site, TEPCO said March 15.

A fat greenling, Hexagrammos otakii, a luxury delicacy in Japanese cuisine, was found to contain radioactive cesium at 7,400 times the government’s food safety standard.

Government officials said the reading of 740,000 becquerels per kilogram is the highest ever recorded in sampling surveys of marine life done since the March 2011 disaster.

ens-newswire.com...