Just In: Blackout at Fukushima Daiichi — Cooling at fuel pools stopped, all power’s been down 3h

Originally posted by Neopan100
so what does that mean? how long before problems occur? replying to keep up with op.

How long before problems occur? Is this a joke?? There have been problems since the day it happened. The media has downplayed just how catastrophic this event is. You don't see a story about Fukishima ANYWHERE, do you? Radioactive material has been swept into the ocean and brought by currents to the shores of Canada and America. The rain and snow falling on your heads, is highly radioactive. Seafood is and should be inedible.

reply to post by thorfourwinds


I was wondering when you'd get here. Things look very grim.

According to NHK a few minutes ago, the problem was caused by the failure of some high voltage switches. The problem was "solved" by by-passing the switches to return flow of power to the affected areas. I think one storage pool is still not being properly cooled but Tepco has announced that the situation should return to the status quo ante outage by Wednesday.

Thats wonderful news!
The only downside is the "situation "is still so far from "normal" we cant even see normal from there......
This is one huge poison pill, and the world will regret going nuclear for a long long half life someday.....
if not already.

reply to post by thorfourwinds


Why do you keep saying people can't back up statements? Maybe if you actually cared to study the science instead of just fear mongering you would know these things.

The rate at which one's body eliminates radioactive particles depends on a variety of factors, the type of particle in question, it's half-life, biological life, inhalation or ingestion, etc, etc... In general, my statement is true. Specifically, there can be wide fluctuations.

Oh boy, thank you Goodness and Love! And we need to really start seeing this whole thing handled. I've read there is bacteria that eats up radiation. Why don't they start trying it and cooling that sucker down?

reply to post by Unity_99

I've read there is bacteria that eats up radiation.

The only thing that diminishes radioactivity is decay over time. In some cases this is tens even hundreds of thousands of years. Longer lifespan than any life form.

There is no magic bullet. Thats the insidious nature of the beast. Its all good as long as it is contained. Once the genie is out of the bottle however, there is no putting it back.

The cost per kilowatt hour in Japan is rising.

reply to post by ipsedixit

NHK reports what Tepco wants them to report. Tepco only admitted to another power failure three hours after that information was leaked. Any further reports are suspect from them. Have been suspect all along.

The cores at the bottom of the reactor wells have been fissioning in the open air and water table since March of 2011. The release is ongoing from those "sources".

The boondoggle is trying to keep the other fuel that hasn't melted down yet cool long enough to get it the hell away from there before further quakes and increasing radiation levels generally on the site get any worse than they are (which they are).

This is an ongoing emergency. The potential for further release of more amounts of radiation from the site is greater than what has been released already. Every time there is a glitch there with the Root Goldberg cooling apparatus, the world holds its breath. This is just one more in a long line of these glitches. The Japanese are going to be chasing the tail of the dragon there (as quietly as possible) for decades to come.

I have thought of an anology to this situation. Imagine tiptoeing your way through a mine field, at night... blindfolded.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

Thank you so much for your contributions to this thread. You have been mining good data throughout and I just wanted to let you know how much that is appreciated.

Mmmm.. I still wonder how this affects the warming in the arctic and the positive ice albedo feedback loop. Look into global dimming as well.

I think this 'nuclear' event will have a direct/indirect effect to the arctic warming going on. Perhaps we are in an icemelt season 50+ days ahead of normal.

And really who knows about Fukushima what is really going on. I don't think any "informed" person has a clue, and if they did, there is no way they would sacrifice the loss of future income (money) to whistle blow on the subject. There is too much at stake... for whomever.

This is just another potential tipping point =( The "waiting" will end soon I think, and it's better to be truly prepared and enjoying life instead of waiting

Edit: Video!!@!

Also I welcome Aircooled to join soon.

For those unaware, most all of the Fuku fallout is directed at Alaska and South below it, perpetuating its way from the West coast to the East as it moves its way around the globe. I'm no studied expert on it, many on this forum are much more informed and aware than me on this subject. I hope the chime in.

I am very concerned with the arctic warming going on and the possibility of this Fuku event to contribute to an exponential increase in warming feedback loops

Heck why not?! Let's bump this thread up a notch and relate it to the Radiation Watch party!! We know our species (in particular, individuals) have ruined it for us all, so let's enjoy what we've got left to enjoy.

Reality: Radiation Watch 2013

Where I live, the reality is this.. Those who live with a minimal carbon footprint are expected to sacrifice their livelihood, their land, and their lifestyle, so that those who live with the largest carbon footprint possible do not have to sacrifice a thing in their lifestyle.

reply to post by thorfourwinds


Because the initial release was by far worse than the ongoing release has been. That's how it usually works. You have a massive initial release, and then as the rods are cooled again, the release drops, usually significantly. Fukushima has dropped from a reported high of 770 PBq for the initial release from all the reactors, down to 70 Sieverts an hour in reactor 2, which was actually the highest release of all the reactors. It's still fatal within an hour, but nowhere near what it was. Chernobyl had an initial release of 704 PBq, which by the next day was down to 204, and kept dropping. The initial release caused the largest part of the damage to the area around it, and the continuing release finished it.

Fukushima will in the long run be higher for releases, because it's proving to be so difficult to contain, due to the spent fuel pool. But a lot of the damage is caused by the initial release, and the lingering damage is caused by the later releases. We can't currently show numbers for the continuing release, as monitoring from a site across the Pacific won't give you good solid numbers as to what's being released. That will only come later, when we can put all the numbers from various groups like Greenpeace, and other groups monitoring release all their numbers.

What's kraazaay is instead of keeping the radioactive waste in one place like Fukushima they tried to spread that hot that love around,thus we had the battle of the Mayors,the Mayor of Kitakyushu got a lot of money for his town if he would accept the radioactive waste from Fukushima,but the Fukuoka mayor said no the problem is he can't do anything because KitaKyushu is north of our city and the lines or roads from up north from stops in KitaKyushu but it's still close enough to affect us.

so basically it has been 1 day, we will see how this plays out, no reason to panic yet, but keep an eye on this for sure.

* * * * * * Just a Reminder * * * * * * *

Debate or discuss the material please, not each other. There have been far too many ad hominem posts and off-topic posts.

It's a charged topic, yes. Let's be civil with each other and make it a productive discussions, please.

Thanks

Originally posted by thorfourwinds

Chernobyl was 10 days - Fukushima is at 739 days - 24/7/365 uncontrolled releases.

Please don't kid yourself. Chernobyl is far from over. They did a much better job of containment; however there are still groundwater and watershed releases. The original sarcoughogus is crumbling - and the new stainless steal one is taking longer then expected. How they intend to complete the containment underground, I've never found any information about it other then the initial tunneling and chemical seal (I believe they used nitrogen to freeze the ground or somesuch) - which has leaked.

No Chernobyl is an ongoing disaster.

Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas
what i don't get about this whole nuclear screw up is that in a totalitarian regime like the USSR people lined up in the TENS of thousands to try to save their country and by extensions the world but the democratic and supposedly honorable people of japan do nothing but send 50 people(the fukishima fifty should be praised) in and if memory from the japan thread is correct rounding up homeless to try to stop it,in the land of the rising sun land of samurais and honor why have they not stopped the problem? why are they not lining up to die for the betterment of their nation

tepco and their ilk will bring a thousand generations of shame upon their families for not acting for the good of their nation and the world

shameful truly shameful

Watashi wa sen no sedai no tame ni anata no ie ni habikoru haji o negatte imasu
私は千の世代のためにあなたの家にはびこる恥を願っています

I applaud you mentioning this fact; however, I must in good conscience add, they were not all volunteers. The Soviets brought in military units and miners and other workers. They were afraid but did their Duty - to the Motherland and the world. At the very least - they looked at situation square on - and dealt with it as best as they could.

The cost to the USSR of this operation helped lead to it's downfall - BUT - they put the planet ahead of political considerations, admited they didn't know what to do and kept on working. It wasn't a perfect response, some of the initial tactics made things worse but they didn't hide from it.

There is a wonderful documentary on YouTube about the Liquidators, I believe it's called "The Battle of Chernobyl" or somesuch. It's truly heroic.

Do you know, to this day, the French will not admit that any fallout fell on their country. Nothing wrong with French wines.... NO.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Xarian6

 

So, doing like everyone else, and grabbing sources (which btw, were sourced to show people claiming that this would end life as we know it, so yeah, I grabbed BIN), is a bad thing now. Man I wish I could keep up with the rules here.

Not all the sources, or places I'm getting my information from are PR sources. Some of them are other message boards, which linking to is frowned upon, so I'm having to paraphrase them, and cherrypick information from them, without directly linking to them.

Hum - but that's not research nor does it lend credance to your arguments. Try finding sources that: 1) specialize in the area and 2) play down sensationalism and 3) are data driven. I know that all sources will have an inherent bias, and may word things sensationally to drive traffic and data can be massased most any way you want; however it's pretty easy to tell is a site is doing their best to present facts or just spouting crap (their own or gotten from somewhere else.

When I go to aggregating sites (which I love) I always back track to the original source if possible or I say something about the source not being to solid.

I commend your honesty about your process and others will learn from you. That's why I'm here, mostly, to learn and practise research and presentation.

Originally posted by FyreByrd

There is a wonderful documentary on YouTube about the Liquidators, I believe it's called "The Battle of Chernobyl" or somesuch. It's truly heroic.

That documentary is heroic, saddening and beautiful. Those people were in large part forced to do their job, but I'm sure that despite the scare they knew that nobody else would have done it.
I'm really grateful to those heroes, they saved many lives at the cost of theirs, many kids are still paying the consequences of the Chernobyl accident, but they could be many many more and the whole Europe couldn't sustain life.

I wish the same could be done in Fukushima, but the world is likely much worse than it was in 1986 where even the Soviets could fix a lethal mistake despite their lies. Now money is leading the world, and lying while keeping a nice grin comes first.