Greek Soccer Player Banned for Nazi Salute

I'm sure that this is a topic that will be a little controversial, but I think it's worth discussing.

A young man was banned for LIFE for giving a "Nazi Salute" when celebrating a winning goal for his team. My question is if this is an appropiate punishment for his action. He claims that he was unaware of it's meaning.

I would like to point out that the origin of the salute is not to be found with the Nazis, and is generally called the "Roman Salute", but has been associated with the Nazis.

Is it fair to ban the young man from his sport for life, regardless if he knew of it's potential association or not?...or a little too much for the action?

What do you think?


thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...

Giorgos Katidis, a 20-year-old Greek soccer player who celebrated a game-winning goal on Saturday by giving a Nazi salute to fans in Athens, has been banned for life from representing his country in international tournaments.

The Hellenic Football Federation met Sunday in response to the incident and decided to ban the player, who has previously captained the national team in youth competitions. “The player’s action to salute to spectators in a Nazi manner is a severe provocation, insults all the victims of Nazi barbarity and injures the deeply pacifist and human character of the game,” the federation said as Greece marked the 70th anniversary of the deportation of thousands of Greek Jews to Nazi death camps.

Katidis, who initially claimed that he was not saluting but pointing at a friend in the stands, said later that he had no idea what the gesture meant. In an apology issued after the ban, he called his salute “totally unacceptable,” adding, “I feel terrible for those I upset with the stupidity of my act.”

en.wikipedia.org...

The Roman salute (Saluto Romano) is a gesture in which the arm is held out forward straight, with palm down, and fingers touching. In some versions, the arm is raised upward at an angle; in others, it is held out parallel to the ground. The former is a well known symbol of fascism that is commonly perceived to be based on a custom in ancient Rome.[1] However, no Roman text gives this description and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern Roman salute.[1]

Jacques-Louis David's painting The Oath of the Horatii (1784) provided the starting point for the gesture that became later known as the Roman salute. The gesture and its identification with Roman culture was further developed in other French neoclassic artworks. This was further elaborated upon in popular culture during the late 19th and early 20th centuries in plays and films that portrayed the salute as an ancient Roman custom. These included a 1914 film called Cabiria based upon a screenplay by the Italian nationalist Gabriele d'Annunzio. In 1919, d'Annunzio adopted the cinematographically depicted salute as a neo-imperial ritual when he led the occupation of Fiume.

Through d'Annunzio's influence, the gesture soon became part of the Italian Fascist movement's symbolic repertoire. In 1923 the salute was gradually adopted by the Italian Fascist regime. It was made compulsory within the Nazi party in 1926, and adopted by the German state when the Nazis took power in 1933. It was also adopted by other fascist movements.

reply to post by isyeye


Yep...saw that.

He deserves what's coming to him.

It's time we start charging for stupidity.

edit:

he was unaware of it's meaning.

If that is true (doubt it, he has been probably coached to say that...to save his career)...than as additional punishment, his parents and schoolteachers should get a public whipping.

Meanwhile you wont get any punishment for faking a stroke because opposing player looked funny at you. Ridicilous sport. They should have instant red card for any faking and I might take it seriously.

I have no problem with taking him out of a few games, but banned for life is way to harsh for the action.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Meanwhile you wont get any punishment for faking a stroke because opposing player looked funny at you. Ridicilous sport. They should have instant red card for any faking and I might take it seriously.

Most of the time...it is very difficult for a referee to see if something was faked or not. Players try to cheat. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don't. It's like life.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
I have no problem with taking him out of a few games, but banned for life is way to harsh for the action.

Yes...he will probably reform after that...he only did accidentally you see...

You can imagine his surprise when they informed him he saluted as a fascist.

As far as I know it was not intentional, so at least for now, I believe he should not be punished. He got his lesson and the publicity served its point to show what consequences it might bring.

I have personally met with the guy and had a chat with him, last year, and at least what I can conclude, the guy did not seem political at all. I contacted one of my friends who used to play in the same league where he played and was friends with him and he agreed with me.

I think he had just seen it somewhere and did not know what it meant before now.

Originally posted by isyeye
I'm sure that this is a topic that will be a little controversial, but I think it's worth discussing.

A young man was banned for LIFE for giving a "Nazi Salute" when celebrating a winning goal for his team. My question is if this is an appropiate punishment for his action. He claims that he was unaware of it's meaning.

I would like to point out that this origin of the salute is not to be found with the Nazis, and is generally called the "Roman Salute", but has been associated with the Nazis.

Is it fair to ban the young man from his sport for life, regardless if he knew of it's potential association or not?...or a little too much for the action?

What do you think?


thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...

Giorgos Katidis, a 20-year-old Greek soccer player who celebrated a game-winning goal on Saturday by giving a Nazi salute to fans in Athens, has been banned for life from representing his country in international tournaments.

The Hellenic Football Federation met Sunday in response to the incident and decided to ban the player, who has previously captained the national team in youth competitions. “The player’s action to salute to spectators in a Nazi manner is a severe provocation, insults all the victims of Nazi barbarity and injures the deeply pacifist and human character of the game,” the federation said as Greece marked the 70th anniversary of the deportation of thousands of Greek Jews to Nazi death camps.

Katidis, who initially claimed that he was not saluting but pointing at a friend in the stands, said later that he had no idea what the gesture meant. In an apology issued after the ban, he called his salute “totally unacceptable,” adding, “I feel terrible for those I upset with the stupidity of my act.”

en.wikipedia.org...

The Roman salute (Saluto Romano) is a gesture in which the arm is held out forward straight, with palm down, and fingers touching. In some versions, the arm is raised upward at an angle; in others, it is held out parallel to the ground. The former is a well known symbol of fascism that is commonly perceived to be based on a custom in ancient Rome.[1] However, no Roman text gives this description and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern Roman salute.[1]

Jacques-Louis David's painting The Oath of the Horatii (1784) provided the starting point for the gesture that became later known as the Roman salute. The gesture and its identification with Roman culture was further developed in other French neoclassic artworks. This was further elaborated upon in popular culture during the late 19th and early 20th centuries in plays and films that portrayed the salute as an ancient Roman custom. These included a 1914 film called Cabiria based upon a screenplay by the Italian nationalist Gabriele d'Annunzio. In 1919, d'Annunzio adopted the cinematographically depicted salute as a neo-imperial ritual when he led the occupation of Fiume.

Through d'Annunzio's influence, the gesture soon became part of the Italian Fascist movement's symbolic repertoire. In 1923 the salute was gradually adopted by the Italian Fascist regime. It was made compulsory within the Nazi party in 1926, and adopted by the German state when the Nazis took power in 1933. It was also adopted by other fascist movements.

Its the context in which it was used, it obviously was supposed to be a roman salute, there making an example of him. They should do this in Italy and other places and stamp it out for good.

Bans to the crowd too. You would only need to make an example of a few.

Originally posted by tdk84

The awesome photo deserves (i.e., is not in need of) any further comment - it speaks for itself. NOW if he grovels enough and in a properly slave-like manner to the right number of authoritative politically correct figures then he might play soccer once again.


An aside - There has been a resurgence of Nazism in Greece since their trouble(s) with the EU began several years back.

Apparently people will get punished in different areas of life just by saying Hitler or the word nazi. It's becoming ridiculous. The control on us is getting tighter and tighter. Watch out how you great each other on the streets guys. You might end up being labeled as a nazi. And especially be careful when you buy staff with antique decoration. Sanskrit and native american contains a lot of swastikas. Damn nazis, they've been tormenting us for thousands of years.

I find it ridiculous this guy didn't know about the Nazi Salute. I'm sure everyone in the world who had a class in high school saw pictures or videos of Nazi's saluting in parades. Not to mention, there have been numerous documentaries that have been televised about the "Third Reich." Maybe he was one of those students who never paid attention in class, had poor attendance and got poor grades. There's no excuse for ignorance.

Wow, sort of messes with ones mind.

Even if he ment it in the nazi way what did it really hurt any one? Did they get offended? If so big deal people get offended on a daily basis. So what if he is stupid, idiots will always be around.

Why is everyone so afraid of being offended?

Raist

reply to post by Raist


He gets banned from representing his country for life for a salute, while people who actively steal, murder, destroy for profit, all get bonuses and respect from their peers. Yeah, this is the real world. Completely ridiculous.

Why can they ban Nazi's but not ban war mongering corporations operating under the illusion of democracy? They have done far worse than Hitler ever did, and they have succeeded where he failed.

Ban them all! Ban them all to HELL!!

Wait, it was just the Bellamy salute ... our bad!

A group of schoolchildren performing the Bellamy salute, May 1942



The Nazi's didn't invent that, good lord who do we think they are, Apple? Maybe if we stopped bringing the "Nazis" up every time something reminds us of a "Nazi", which they adopted from earlier cultures, the symbolisms would return to their rightful place in history ... the older cultures.

Kind of makes one wonder in 50 or 100 years how this could be vilified ...



Did Giorgos Katidis know that he would be compared to the Nazi's? Most likely not, I mean he has a "Get Rich or Die Tryin'" tattoo below his navel. One can say he thinks it is stylish or he is a 50 cent fan.

My guess is he just thought it looked cool ...



Obviously, the guy behind him to his right knew what it meant and tried to pull his arm down.

My Call: Foolish Mistake.

Originally posted by Raist
Wow, sort of messes with ones mind.

Even if he ment it in the nazi way what did it really hurt any one? Did they get offended? If so big deal people get offended on a daily basis. So what if he is stupid, idiots will always be around.

Why is everyone so afraid of being offended?

Raist

Because there is a lot of discussion going on in Greece - there are, maybe as a result to rising unemployment numbers, major riots about immigrants and them "taking away the jobs" and all the other old "arguments" well-known from the Third Reich.
Greece itself had a hard time during WWII, as they were conquered during Operation Marita by the German Wehrmacht. A lot of hard feelings against Hitler since then. But a rising number of far-right activists and parties.

Greece is it on its tiptoes to check on everything far-right.

reply to post by Raist

Even if he ment it in the nazi way what did it really hurt any one? Did they get offended? If so big deal people get offended on a daily basis. So what if he is stupid, idiots will always be around.

Yes it is a big deal. It's a huge deal!
He later admitted he knew it was a nazi salute.

He didn't do this on some street corner somewhere. He did this on NATIONAL TV!

In effect he was saluting mass murder of innocent civilians.
He was saluting racism.

There may be some nostaliga for the the perception of the efficent German economy in todays scary times. But what is not being remembered is the undercurrent of fear of all citizens in Nazi Germany. No one would have dared to post on a site like this (if it existed) back in the day. That would assure a knock at the door be men with a skull and cross bones on their hat.
The busy German economy was supported by the stripping of neighboring countries.

Soccer in gerneral is a sport long over due for clean up. I don't understand how the rioting fans are tolerated. If it were up to me I would end the season for any team where the fans started or participated in and riots. On or off the field.

Ban him for life. Let him try to get a real job and see how the world works.

reply to post by isyeye

so the romans, after their long war with the jews, tried to erase the evidence of it from history.
and now the nazi's, after their war, are working at covering up their history.

i wonder what they've got in store for us next?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Meanwhile you wont get any punishment for faking a stroke because opposing player looked funny at you. Ridicilous sport. They should have instant red card for any faking and I might take it seriously.

Same thing happens in the NBA. Guys fly twenty feet across the floor when they get bumped a little.

I agree this was a fascist salute and the player should have known better. He should be punished, but a lifetime ban is more than is necessary.

reply to post by Firefly_


That is what I really do not understand. He made a gesture. If he is racist so what. Unless he is hurting people I do not see the issue. There are always going to be stupid racist people.

I would worry more about the people doing real harm.

Raist

reply to post by samkent


I am not trying to tell another country how to run (not that you said I did I just want to make it clear).

I mean we have racists here (the kkk and the black panthers and such). I ignore them they are fools.

This guy did not hurt anyone he made a gesture. So what if people saw it call him out on it make sure people know he is racist but a minority and leave it at that. Screw fools who worry anout race. If he is hurting people then do something. Other than that it is nothing more than feelings being hurt.


Raist