1919 Jackson, Michigan giant

-Well, I went Downtown and the Cit Pat office was closed (Its Sunday) but again, our Archives from Jackson Mi. make no mention of this...

I am intrigued by this whole story (we do have a North Street) and I am going to really do some digging. I will be actually going to the Police Dept and seeing if this "Officer" ever worked for the City AND to the Cit Pat Office to show them this thread and ask why nothing appears in our archives.

I also know some amateur Historians (Like the Owners of Brick Walker Tavern- THAT place has stories and still gives Tours if you know the right people-) and will see what they know.

I am calling Hoax though. Considering our Newspapers do not archive anything close to this (and I can guarantee there is no "coverup" on something like this) along with the fact that I am very versed in local Legends and this is the first I have heard- I figure this rumor was started and picked up by a paper somewhere (not even in Michigan) and another paper or two referenced it...

I will certainly return to this thread... I LOVE this stuff, and jackson, Lenewee, Hillsdale Co. Michigan are some of the most interesting places I have ever seen. I LOVE it here (and would live nowhere else if its up to me) and I also love our deep History. I am very much into "Haunted Houses" and crazy things like the "Stacy Chair" (look that one up, lol) although I am skeptical of it all.

Give me some time and if there are answers to have- I will have them... But again, I do not expect much. If it was even rumored that "Giants" were found here I would have heard the rumors. Also the Shawnee Indians had NO STORIES of "Red haired Giants" in the area, but many stories of Devils (that is where Devils Lake got its name) and other supernatural things in this area (Jackson/Lenewee/Hissdale)
EDIT: Someone mentioned mammoth Bones... This is a BIG YES. Even recently (the 1990s) one of the largest Dinosaur Fossil finds (in the area) was found in Saline Mi.and my Anthropology class was permitted to venture out there for a day- Cool stuff)

reply to post by DarKPenguiN


DarkPenguiN, your efforts to find some answers the hard way are appreciated. Even though I am not a resident of MIchigan, or the US for that matter, this is equally intriguing to me. Evidence that a true giant had been found and was hidden away from further access for some dark reason is exciting enough, but I am just as prepared to learn (with some form of proof) that it was some elaborate publicity hoax. Good luck with your attempt.

If at all possible, it would help to know what the purpose of this "excavation" was that this mummy/dummy turned up. People don't go digging up their rear yard for no reason at all. This might point more clearly to this being an accidental find as opposed to one that was intended to happen.

Originally posted by GoneGrey
reply to post by DarKPenguiN

 

DarkPenguiN, your efforts to find some answers the hard way are appreciated. Even though I am not a resident of MIchigan, or the US for that matter, this is equally intriguing to me. Evidence that a true giant had been found and was hidden away from further access for some dark reason is exciting enough, but I am just as prepared to learn (with some form of proof) that it was some elaborate publicity hoax. Good luck with your attempt.

If at all possible, it would help to know what the purpose of this "excavation" was that this mummy/dummy turned up. People don't go digging up their rear yard for no reason at all. This might point more clearly to this being an accidental find as opposed to one that was intended to happen.

Oh, don't get me wrong...I am not discounting the fact that there may have been Giants . Considering tales and legends alone from peoples isolated from one another (like the Flood) leads me to believe there may be some truth to these matters. The Fact is, I am clueless to the "Truth" and totally KNOW there has been scientific "cover-ups" regarding this nation (like the Roman Coins/Writings/shipwrecks) which "science" discounts or avoids all together.

-But, my issue with this particular story is that 1919 is not that long ago and there would be legends/rumors which persisted had this happened here. As someone who grew up in the Irish Hills and followed all the legends, tales and stories (there are a TON in this area) and has been involved in local History for 25+ years- I think I would have heard this rumor before... I have heard rumors far more Bizarre.

So I am not saying that there never were Giants when I have no idea (and frankly believe there may have been) I am just speaking of this one incident purported to have happened here- BUT, I promise, I am going to diligently look into this , starting with the Officers name and speaking to the Local newspaper...

-This stuff is honestly fascinating.

-But a coverup it would not be- From the same general era we had the "Black legion " here (based in napolean) which involved high level people, assassination and a "secret society" and this was (and is) widely reported and known about and led to arrests of Judges and Politicians. So at least during the time frame of the early 20th century, our Newspaper was pretty good- Its terrible NOW and would totally be complicit in a coverup- In fact, I trust them about as much as a Cobra in my Bed, lol.
EDIT: Hope you guys get my meaning here- Not discounting the fact there may have been Giants... Just talking about this incident.


-

reply to post by GoneGrey


You should check out a show on the History Channel (H2) and watch America Unearthed. This article was researched fully and the main show researcher Scott Wolfer is an Anthropology Archaeologist. He is on a mission to prove that American History is much different that what we have been taught. This was an interesting episode. I am sure you will enjoy it and become hooked.

Originally posted by GoneGrey
reply to post by allstarninja

 

Not sure what you mean by that.

Look up The Border Cities Star in Google News Archive. You can see the date of publication from my posted image. The article is on pg. 16.

That is the interesting thing to me, should that not have been front page? Even the fact of the body being preserved like that should have made it front page news.

Originally posted by funnychick
reply to post by GoneGrey

 

You should check out a show on the History Channel (H2) and watch America Unearthed. This article was researched fully and the main show researcher Scott Wolfer is an Anthropology Archaeologist. He is on a mission to prove that American History is much different that what we have been taught. This was an interesting episode. I am sure you will enjoy it and become hooked.

-I hate to ask, but do you have an episode number or anything close? If he "fully researched" this, I am sure he came to jackson, talked to Historians and such (or our College Professors) and I have heard nothing of this. When "Dog the Bounty Hunter" came here, it was MAJOR NEWS, same as when "COPS" filmed here... Yet nothing at all about this.

Our Professors have held lectures (free to the Public) on issues such as strange finds in America (like the Roman Coins and Shipwrecks) at Albion College, and the mayans (along with other interesting things of a Local nature like "The Purple Gang") and Spring Arbor University (A MAJOR CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY) is here as well, and the students believe everything in the Bible and are probably (assumption on my part) taught about Giants... So if this was "Fully Researched" they didnt come here and talk to anyone that I am aware of.

-Would LOVE to see the episode but I would need more info to download the proper one (if you have it)

-Thanks.
EDIT: And again, there is NOTHING about anything (a dig, a find, a Policemen, etc.) ion our local paper which covers Jackson Mi.... Not a peep. So why would Windsor paper and an Ohio paper report on something here when HERE s not reporting on anything? If this happened today, I would agree with the "coverup" possibility - Yet things were very different back then as "Science" was not so cut and dry (as proof by the expiation into the Amazon and what they thought they would find)

Originally posted by rickymouse

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Great find!

I wonder if it was found near some Hopewell Indian mounds?

Sounds like another one of those red-haired giants from some of those 1800s "yellow journalism" articles.

edit on 16-3-2013 by MichiganSwampBuck because: finished last sentence

I've read quite a bit on those red haired giants. It seems that they may have been real. It seems that they were usually not a threat to the Indians but they could get cranky once in a while if the young Indians provoked them. Something happened between them and the Indians and the Giants disappeared, possibly a war of some kind.

The line of Dan had red hair. It actually fits into the Vikings being here. Maybe earlier than we know.

Seems like that area in lower Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana may have had a lot of Giants around. I was comparing the areas where remains were found from this site. gianthumanskeletons.blogspot.com...

edit on 17-3-2013 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

While reading historic materials from the locked cabinet section from the local library years ago, I read about a giant found here.
I don't remember the dates, but maybe around the same time. Soldiers marching toward San Francisco along the coast were in an area somewhere past Oregon and before San Francisco and they camped. The men dug a latrine
and as they dun they uncovered a giant skeleton.

The captain ordered a tent built over it because it was going to rain. During the night the skeleton supposedly disappeared, although there was guards posted for the camp not specifically for the skeleton, no one heard anything.

Since they was traveling through an area that the local Indians would not travel as it was supposedly land belonging to what we now call "big foot". It would make sense to believe the giant is related to that creature.

Interesting stuff here.
gianthumanskeletons.blogspot.com...

I love this topic! And big thanks to those that are going above and beyond in researching this old news article.

I found a bunch of old newspaper clipping in one spot, but I do not see the one in the original post.

giants in the newspaper

Originally posted by Mumbotron
reply to post by windword

 

Yeah but above 12 feet tall is a little out of the ordinary, wouldn't you say?
line2

Yah, I'd say. It was the age of fossils and everywhere people were discovering new and bigger specimens. It became such a worn issue that a tale was written I forget by whom,

We came upon a "Pete" - trified tree...
Way up in that tree was a Pete-trified branch...
Upon that branch was a Pete-trified nest...
And in that Pete-trified nest sat a Pete-trified bird...
Singing a Pete-trified song.

Its still a going concern today amongst fossil hunters who has the biggest (ahem), fossil.

-It also should be noted that the "scientific" method was not exactly "set in stone" during this time and there was a ton of hoaxing going on.

I had this "Time Life" book series about the "Old West" and in it was a small section about Lewis and Clark and other explorers. The Journals they had made, illustrations, etc... They drew beavers which looked like Demons and thought they were dangerous- In fact, these old Journals had representations of animals which are common today but described wildly different than we understand them (even drawn to make them look very scary)- One story I remember is some explorers claiming they found a village of tiny people and a village of devils.

-I am sure you can easily see these journals and descriptions if you look hard enough online (somewhere) but if even the great "explorers" were so incorrect when describing living creatures- Suffice it to say that they understood what "the pubic" wanted and entertainment (like today) assured extra funding.

-In the age of Carnivals and Sideshows, science was often blended with fantasy as well- And the newspapers of the day were probably worse than today (often "bought") as can be seen by newspaper Articles about the likes of Billy the Kid and others (in certain areas, the James gang were heroes who could do no wrong- In others they were villains accused of any and everything even if they were not in the State)

DarkPenguin, if I could applaud your efforts on this thread I would! Good job! I have never seen a thread where someone actually did "legwork" before. My fingers are tired just thinking about it.

Originally posted by superman2012
DarkPenguin, if I could applaud your efforts on this thread I would! Good job! I have never seen a thread where someone actually did "legwork" before. My fingers are tired just thinking about it.

NP- This is very interesting to me and I am right here anyhow.
I LIVE for this stuff. Have stayed the night in "Haunted Houses" and graveyards and nearly went to jail over one such incident (charges dropped and a stern warning given)... I am dying to find proof, evidence or something regarding the paranormal, cryptozoology or pretty much anything "weird", lololol.

Sadly, I have not yet been able to. I have heard first hand accounts from people I know and trust (and I believe them that they believe what they are saying) but in 25+ years of chasing this stuff I have really seen nothing but an Orb...Once.. And I honestly am not sure what I saw.

I have scared the hell out of myself as well... But I really, really enjoy all of this.

I would be THRILLED if this turned into something.
-Thanks.

Originally posted by Char-Lee

Originally posted by rickymouse

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Great find!

I wonder if it was found near some Hopewell Indian mounds?

Sounds like another one of those red-haired giants from some of those 1800s "yellow journalism" articles.

edit on 16-3-2013 by MichiganSwampBuck because: finished last sentence

I've read quite a bit on those red haired giants. It seems that they may have been real. It seems that they were usually not a threat to the Indians but they could get cranky once in a while if the young Indians provoked them. Something happened between them and the Indians and the Giants disappeared, possibly a war of some kind.

The line of Dan had red hair. It actually fits into the Vikings being here. Maybe earlier than we know.

Seems like that area in lower Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana may have had a lot of Giants around. I was comparing the areas where remains were found from this site. gianthumanskeletons.blogspot.com...

edit on 17-3-2013 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

While reading historic materials from the locked cabinet section from the local library years ago, I read about a giant found here.
I don't remember the dates, but maybe around the same time. Soldiers marching toward San Francisco along the coast were in an area somewhere past Oregon and before San Francisco and they camped. The men dug a latrine
and as they dun they uncovered a giant skeleton.

The captain ordered a tent built over it because it was going to rain. During the night the skeleton supposedly disappeared, although there was guards posted for the camp not specifically for the skeleton, no one heard anything.

Since they was traveling through an area that the local Indians would not travel as it was supposedly land belonging to what we now call "big foot". It would make sense to believe the giant is related to that creature.

Interesting stuff here.
gianthumanskeletons.blogspot.com...

edit on 17-3-2013 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

Hi ,
Your reply to rickymouses post, and his post hit on a couple of interesting points, relating to " red haired giants" in north America.
Your post is interesting as I can likely pin down the area with a little research, because there were a couple of tribes on the north west coast that had taboos on passing through areas were sasquatch or skookum lived.
In local native californian lore " red haired giants"" occupy two distinct facets of the stories.
In one context, from the west slope of the sierra Nevada, there is the cannibal giant, who is described as have red hair that captures people to eat and carries them around in his large burden basket.
From the east side of the sierras people have stories of the people here before them, that were red haired and cannibals at times.

Here's a couple things about the local lore, these people have a very long depth of time here in central cal.
There have been sites excavated, that contain items that show a cultural relationship going back 7000 years. And this relationship extends to the sites in Nevada, such as spirit cave, lovelock cave and a couple of other older sites in Nevada. It's at spirit where one line of modern red haired giant lore starts.
The spirit cave find was originally reported as giants. These mummies have red hair, and decidedly caucasoid morphologies, but there have been other remains excavated nearby, that show the same distinct morphology in the earlier layer, but remains transition in what is considered a contemporary western native American morphology over time, but the cultural package remains consistent. These people made baskets from specific plants, they made woven hemp cloth cloaks and they made woven fiber sandals. These cultural trade marks can be found throughout the western us.
The earliest remains found in the western us all have a decidedly non modern western native American morphology, kennewick man being the most widely known.
Now red hair has been traced back to homo heidlbergensis, as has been mentioned, and certain populations of Hh were very large, on the order of 7" tall, also Hh was a known cannibal.
So, I have recently fallen into the camp of an early entrance into north America by some version of archaic homonin. Certain aspects of DNA studies and obscure epidemiological evidence back this idea up.
I back up the idea that, at the minimum, an isloated population of archaic homonins, evolved into modern humans in north America, or modern humans evolved from an Hh-Hn regional homonin and some migrated into the new world, very early, on the order of 100k years ago, founded a population, and subsequently remigrated back to Asia.
Sorry ran out of character space and battery, sol continue this line of thought

reply to post by skepticconwatcher


Fair enough, even though the picture was posted as an edit after my post. But really that isn't a picture of a 12 ft 7 person, and there is no anthropological record of such a person.

Good news! With a bit more digging through archival newspapers, I found an Ohio paper, the Middletown News-Signal that had a more substantial story to go with this find. It provided some more useful names, a better physical description (sorry, black hair on this one), and the circumstances for the digging.

This article was covered on the first page and bore a large-lettered title -- more in line with what one would expect for this kind of an event. I had to shrink the size of the article for posting purposes, but will provide a link so that you can view it yourself in the context of the full page.



Middletown News-Signal article

I haven't taken the time yet to look for any follow-up articles in this same publication. Feel free to beat me to it.

reply to post by Mumbotron


Is there a member with a medical background who could tell us if a human skeleton could support a body height in the 12ft range?

Are the bones of even our tallest people proportionally greater in circumference or just abnormally elongated?

Seems like most of our exceptionally tall humans are subject to associated health issues or are as tall as they are due to a genetic anomaly. I would think that any race, capable of a reasonably healthful and successful survival, would have to be structurally suited to attain those great heights.

That is why finds such as this one, if an actual corpse of some kind, is so compelling -- it could point toward the existence of another species of human.

reply to post by GoneGrey


So, Gigantism is normally caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland which prevents the normal uptake of hormones from the thyroid. Side effects of this disorder include endocrine system problems due to improper hormone levels, heart problems are common due to the extra work required to pump that blood around, also joint problems tend to come up more for people with this disorder. There's lots of other health issues people who have this condition need to deal with.
In my opinion, there isn't much of an evolutionary advantage, since there are so many detrimental aspects to Gigantism. It would be interesting to see the remains to help determine if this found individual in the article has this disorder or not.

reply to post by Mumbotron

Gigantism is usually caused by a tumor on the pituitary gland of the brain. It causes growth of the hands, face, and feet.

In some cases the condition can be passed on genetically through a mutated gene.

The condition can also be passed down genetically, which would account for "tribes" of giants being reported.

It would be interesting to find out if those who inherit this condition through the gene suffer from the same problems, or if through the generational passage of the gene, these people have a better chances of survival than those with the tumor in the pituitary gland.

reply to post by windword


Good point, I didn't mention that since a genetic factor only accounts for about 0.1% of known cases of Gigantism. Since we don't know much about the genetics of the people who lived in North America before the people who crossed into Alaska from Siberia possibly 10,000 years ago, it is a definite possibility.

"...yet another giants body secreted away " ha ha ha ha ha ha

Oh, I love ATS!