Bill Clinton apologizes for MKULTRA on tv

reply to post by japhrimu


I was contemplating that idea a bit ago. The CIA has been known, historically, to have planted itself within the inner workings of new agencies (ie CNN) and they also have an entertainment liason office where they also share ideas. I've always considered some of the entertainment industry as a sort of propaganda or social conditioning tool. If you knew something was going to come out, then why wouldn't you get the first spin on it by placing it within a movie or tv show? I don't think it could ever be proven that they do that though as, sometimes,it could be the writer just poking around to see what they can find to inspire them for some movie or tv show. Kind of like Fringe--Dr. Walter Bishop might as well have been a MK-ULTRA doctor and that information was out there. Interest in human modification has been around for a while. Orson Welles talks about it in "Future Shock" and there's all those articles about DARPA (never did find the original source on that though) wanting to make tougher soldiers. Despite the idea having significant ethical questions, why wouldn't a country want an enhanced soldier?

www.nytimes.com...

www.cnn.com...

So yeah, maybe they are introducing ideas and getting that first spin on things to break the proverbial ice on a subject. Or maybe the writers are just poking around and finding ideas. Who knows.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

It's amazing what people will do if the government asks them, puffs them up with thoughts of patriotic duty and acting in defense of national security--plus a comfy government contract. It doesn't take mind control--it becomes human nature.

At risk of appearing to defend anyone who would participate, which isn't really what I'm doing here, but I would like to point out it isn't so amazing what people will do, scientists and doctors and whomever else, who have families and that innate instinct we all seem to possess to want to survive--and once you have children, wives, husbands, sisters, brothers, parents, etc. there is something to use to hold over your head.
Sure, MK Ultra and Monarch programming, and all the subprojects attached, reveal definitively that psychiatry can be used, ironically, in the sickest of ways. In fact, any kind of science or medical research can, because to understand curing a disease process also involves necessarily understanding how to create it, or a simulation of it with, let's say, certain available technologies, which is also part of what these "projects" were about. And sure, there were some very aberrant individuals involved, participating and directing what amounts to torture, justified by those other things you mentioned (that aren't based in much reality, in my opinion, of what really happened and still is), like patriotism, duty or defending the country. If you think about how long it's gone on, it's hardly a defense of anything, because the continuation proves it's only been a perpetuation, with all the same attendant justifications you mentioned.
But the "controllers," let's call them of such things, use everything in their scientific lexicon and knowledge of human nature (emotions, what people will protect, what threats they will respond to without hesitation) to keep this ongoing, just as they did when it began.......nothing whatsoever, obviously, is sacred to them in getting cooperation for whatever they desire. And I believe they also have a very simple mindset that if they are able to do such things, then it's as it should be, and they should carry on; that alone proves to them that they are somehow superior to their victims, and that their victims are there for them to do with what they will.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice

Originally posted by LastStarfighter
What difference does it make that these people admit this. Its well known it happened. Further they are known liars so whatever they say is twisted. What is fascinating is that this means nothing to the general public.

Maybe it isn't so much that they admit their activities but really if you look at what occurred after the Church Commission, nobody seemed to have been penalized in anyway for the activities. In fact, Sidney Gottlieb, head of MK-ULTRA, earned a medal for his "efforts" when he closed the project. Immensely questionable ethics and it gets excused. Bit of a lack of justice there...

Interesting to the discussion to understand the mindset:
www.nytimes.com...

I didn't click on your NYTimes source, but I will say there is a whole lot to why Dr. Gottlieb was "decorated." And the "closing of the program," is the biggest laugh, yet. Dr. Gottlieb was in charge of direct use of hypnotherapy, as it applied to entrainment of the mind, as well...... If you can make a victim the laughing stock or public enemy number one, either way, that's where the whole idea of they were "defending the country," came in. But I am not convinced, either, that Gottlieb fully understood what was going to be done with what he was asked to implement on people.

reply to post by tetra50


I don't think you sound like an apologist. You're actually saying what I was attempting to say in my "puffing up" remark. I think that, in the times, the perceived need and danger may have been such that the participants may have rationalized that the "ends justify the means". I find it amazing on a personal level because my own set of personal ethics does not allow for a justification of unethical means.

A couple good old docs really highlight the mentality of the times in regards to the former Soviet Union's own research/possible research. I like actually looking for those source documents straight from the horse's mouth because I find those to be the most interesting and telling of all. This is the stuff that really ended up being the basis for some of the more curious research that went on at the time. Couple "fun" (read with a hint of sarcasm) ones from around the early 70's:

Paranormal Phenomena--Briefing on a Net Assessment Study: www.dod.mil...

Controlled Offensive Behavior--USSR: www.dia.mil...


As far as Gottlieb's innocence goes, that's really controversial. There were tort claims against Gottlieb in regards to him potentially being the individual drugging civilians at times: bulk.resource.org...

reply to post by WhiteAlice


ooooh, wait....and, first thanks for the links--but that's why I added such a strong caveat at the beginning of what I said: I would never call Gottlieb "innocent." IMHO, that's stretching it quite a bit. But, I do think, it may have started more along the lines of "officials," saying to research granted doc, say, let's see if this is even possible, just, you know, in case of war time of certain espionage situations we might need to do such and such because of Russians, or Chinese or whatever and whomever, without really fully informing certain doctors of their entire and exact plan for what they were about--when, clearly, they had a definitive goal(s) and plan(s), and it was long term and involved controlling everyone. And I really mean that. It wasn't just about abusing women and children, or protecting this country, there are many layers and facets to what really just adds up to control of world domination, pure and simple.
But, certainly, with many of the doctors and scientists involved, lives were threatened to acquire their cooperation, and not just their own, but their families. I think most of us are aware of the scientists involved with the '___' tests, in particular, for instance, given to them without their knowledge. More than one of them ended up dead, and some later, from "suicide" after trying to out certain information.
You're dead on point about everything you say,, I just wanted to add that these guys weren't ever screwing around once they "tapped" someone they wanted something, anything from, whether professionals to carry it out or victims for their "research." Sure, that doesn't disallow the fact that much of what happened, obviously, takes a sickness all its own to carry out under any supposed "justification," whether that be sold as patriotism, nationalism, or research--whatever.

I'm afraid I don't have the best results with the new search engine. but there was a thread, quite an old one from something like 2004 on here, of the most comprehensive collection of "straight from the horse's mouth," as you put it, source material on MK ULtra, Project Monarch, Bluebird, Artichoke, Paperclip, etc..... The OP's membername was Bob something, I know this is very vague, but if you could find that thread, it has some incredibly well indexed and difficult to find, complete and official information. When I found the thread a few years ago I saw the member had been banned not long after he compiled the thread, so he isn't active here any longer, at least under that name. But that thread is worth looking for, just for the source links it contained. I'll give it a try.

I'm not sure, yet, if this is the thread I found I spoke about a few years ago;nevertheless, especially with you in mind, WhiteAlice, as this has an incredible array of source links, though I have not checked them out myself, seemed incredibly comprehensive, so here's the link:www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by tetra50


I guess nobody realises every time you put a cell phone next to your head you are allowing possible influence of your conscience according to the air force that wrote the above info.

Originally posted by supergravity
reply to post by tetra50

 

I guess nobody realises every time you put a cell phone next to your head you are allowing possible influence of your conscience according to the air force that wrote the above info.

Yup. I''m the nobody that realized this quite some time ago.... The problem with these sorts of realizations, though, is once you begin comprehending just how much of what you allude to completely surrounds you in this environment, unless you are in the deepest jungle in the middle of nowhere, the sense of helplessness becomes so profound as to be overwhelming.

On another note, in discussing all this with Miss White Alice, I've had my head buried in the rabbit hole of ask ATS (old search engine) for the last hour searching for a particular thread with comprehensive links I found a while back. The result is, though, I don't found that specific thread, yet, I found a few others which people involved in the conversation here might find interesting:
stargate.collection.free.fr...
This is not, obviously, from ATS, but has quite a bit of interesting info regarding some MK Ultra sub project info, and other research projects, some Russian.....

and then this:

www.usdoj.gov... this is the most relevant info.

1. Respondents, invoking the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5
U.S.C. 552, filed a request with the Central Intelligence Agency
seeking certain information about a CIA project known as MKULTRA.
MKULTRA was initiated in the 1950's in "response to possible use by
the Soviets and the Chinese of chemical and biological agents as
instruments of interrogation and brainwashing" (Pet. App. 37a
(footnote omitted); see id. at 73a). The project involved "research
into 'chemical, biological and radiological materials capable of
employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior'" (id.
at 21a (footnote and citation omitted)). See also Pet. App. 89a
(affidavit of Director of Central Intelligence Turner).

MKULTRA research was conducted by a large number of private
scientists, in the United States and abroad, affiliated with
universities, research foundations, and similar institutions (Pet.
App. 66a, 89a). At least 80 institutions and 185 private researchers
participated (id. at 36a). A total of 149 subprojects were funded by
the CIA (I C.A. App. 14-61). /1/

Most of these subprojects involved legitimate research into a
variety of chemical, biological, psychological, and sociological
subjects. In a few of the subprojects, researchers surreptitiously
administered drugs to unwitting subjects. This wholly improper
conduct is now expressly forbidden by executive order. Exec. Order
No. 12,333, Section 2.10, 46 Fed. Reg. 59941, 59952 (1981). See also
Project MKULTRA, the CIA's Program of Research in Behavioral
Modification: Joint Hearing Before the Select Comm. on Intelligence
and the Subcomm. on Health and Scientific Research of the Senate Comm.
on Human Resources, 95th Cong., 1st Sess. 16, 17, 35 (1977) (Testimony
of Director of Central Intelligence Turner) (hereinafter cited as
Project MKULTRA Hearing). The CIA has attempted to notify the persons
who were unwittingly subjected to tests. See id. at 36.

and more links can be found herewww.abovetopsecret.com...

and now I'll stop, I promise. LOL
Once White Alice commented she mostly enjoyed finding information that seemed most official and credible, I was sucked into that in an instant. Not her fault. Probably a result of some kind of programming....little attempt at humor, there.

Yea it's topics like this that really make me sick, five years ago i came to this website to expose gangstalking (the many forms of it) which in some instances is a extension of the MKULTRA program if i had to guess i would say there's anywhere between 10 to 50 evolved extensions of this god awful program.....


It's travisty after travisty from the United States government from poisoning it's own citizens with tanied alcohol during the prohibition era then the syphilis experiment that went on and on in a research center in the south years after there was a cure because of the excues they wanted to see the long term effect of the illness to the topic at hand MKULTRA and now it's many extenion programs like gangstalking and electronic harassment, it's enough to make one puke....


I guess the only way we are going to stop all of this once and for all is by word of mouth people seeing threads on such topics then the trickle down effect of people who have read them telling friends and family about it and hope for a chain reaction and something to be done.....one can hope right???

reply to post by King Seesar

I guess the only way we are going to stop all of this once and for all is by word of mouth people seeing threads on such topics then the trickle down effect of people who have read them telling friends and family about it and hope for a chain reaction and something to be done.....one can hope right???

It's a good and valiant thought, but the programmers are one step ahead with the self-destruct mechanism they've coded into the puppets.
The human race really has become just that, but some people really can't be exposed to the truth of this project because it will cause them to commit suicide or being "murdered" by an alter persona.
So sad how they've destroyed some people.
You'll notice on some of Fritz Springmeier's work as well as other researchers, they post a warning to the viewer before hand saying that some images and information may contain triggers and not to proceed if you believe you might be susceptible to this. Even cult deprogrammers haven't been schooled enough to counter the depths of MK Ultra and its sister programs. Sick psychopaths of destruction who sit in the shadows and need to be outed and destroyed.

reply to post by Afterthought


I agree with everything you said however one way to defeat any type of programming like this or even simple programming from TV and that is to over perceive what the program in any form is trying to control you with, if you make it your own and own your own perception i would think would be step one in any type of deprogramming technique but i agree it is no easy ride........