reply to post by WhiteAlice
ooooh, wait....and, first thanks for the links--but that's why I added such a strong caveat at the beginning of what I said: I would never call
Gottlieb "innocent." IMHO, that's stretching it quite a bit. But, I do think, it may have started more along the lines of "officials," saying
to research granted doc, say, let's see if this is even possible, just, you know, in case of war time of certain espionage situations we might need
to do such and such because of Russians, or Chinese or whatever and whomever, without really fully informing certain doctors of their entire and exact
plan for what they were about--when, clearly, they had a definitive goal(s) and plan(s), and it was long term and involved controlling everyone. And
I really mean that. It wasn't just about abusing women and children, or protecting this country, there are many layers and facets to what really
just adds up to control of world domination, pure and simple.
But, certainly, with many of the doctors and scientists involved, lives were threatened to acquire their cooperation, and not just their own,
but their families. I think most of us are aware of the scientists involved with the '___' tests, in particular, for instance, given to them without
their knowledge. More than one of them ended up dead, and some later, from "suicide" after trying to out certain information.
You're dead on point about everything you say,, I just wanted to add that these guys weren't ever screwing around once they "tapped" someone
they wanted something, anything from, whether professionals to carry it out or victims for their "research." Sure, that doesn't disallow the fact
that much of what happened, obviously, takes a sickness all its own to carry out under any supposed "justification," whether that be sold as
patriotism, nationalism, or research--whatever.
I'm afraid I don't have the best results with the new search engine. but there was a thread, quite an old one from something like 2004 on
here, of the most comprehensive collection of "straight from the horse's mouth," as you put it, source material on MK ULtra, Project Monarch,
Bluebird, Artichoke, Paperclip, etc..... The OP's membername was Bob something, I know this is very vague, but if you could find that thread, it has
some incredibly well indexed and difficult to find, complete and official information. When I found the thread a few years ago I saw the member had
been banned not long after he compiled the thread, so he isn't active here any longer, at least under that name. But that thread is worth looking
for, just for the source links it contained. I'll give it a try.