Toxic Masculinity

Being masculine causes men to commit rape and being female cause women to be a raving bitch every month. Is that the way we're gonna go with this? Just throw out generalities and opinions and call it fact?

reply to post by DAVID64

Originally posted by DAVID64
Being masculine causes men to commit rape and being female cause women to be a raving bitch every month. Is that the way we're gonna go with this? Just throw out generalities and opinions and call it fact?

Like I said before. Not raping people is not a sign of masculinity; and not yelling angrily at others is not a feminine quality. It is a HUMAN quality called COMPASSION to not want to bring the suffering of rape and verbal abuse to others.

The answer is quite simple - it's money.

Men are trained to be tough and hard working - so our Corporate Overlords can gain from their labor.

Women are trained to be motherly so as to produce more consumers for our Corporate Overlords.

Money. It all comes down to making money off the Proletarians' backs.

TPTB handle their Serf humans just like animal breeding. Pretty simple to me. And 90% of the humans go along with it. They fall for all the Propaganda which is based on emotional manipulation.

I would recommend that men stop falling for flattery and lies that they too are like their Gods. Because you aren't, they are appealing to your vanity. Women should toughen themselves up and stop being overly 'girly'. I see an awful lot of rhetoric here about "Feminazis" and "Metrosexuals" - I hope you all (any gender) realize that this is nothing but an attempt to get people breeding for the Overlords.

Don't fall for it. As more men reject the Macho stereotype, and more women reject the Nurturing stereotype - watch them panic.

The are already. Not enough births! Falling birth rates! Why do you think they want to outlaw abortion and birth control? Not because they CARE. Oh PLEASE - these people care for nothing but MONEY.

You need to breed and work for them - 70% of the US economy is dependent upon consumer spending. THIS right here is what it's all about.

Reject their stereotypes and refuse to breed. This is the best way to hit them where it hurts - in their bank accounts which are filled by exploiting the Serfs.

Any poster here who would attribute rape to "Toxic Masculinity" receives a 0/10 on an intellectual scale from yours truly.



What do we call it when females are the perpetrators of rape? "Estrogen Vitriol"?

Oh wait, we just call it "sexual assault" and give them lesser sentences than a male perp would get.



And if a man is being physically abused by his significant other?

Big joke, nobody cares. Shelters reject them, society mocks them, and the legal system ignores them.



...But it's "masculinity" that oppresses and shames the opposite gender...? Right. .



This idea of "toxic masculinity" is a tragically rather expected theater of self-appreciating, misanthropic adolescence from the tables of the same deluded, confused rape victims who don't know how to deal with their emotions through any avenue other than direct backlash and generalization of a group of people who just-so-happen to be half of the damn planet's population. Also, saying such an obvious fact to them will force them to turn off their brains, get offended, and start tossing around the vagina monologue mantras -- perpetual adolescence in it's brightest face -- blinding the public eye.

Also, shame on those who automatically accuse those who are raped of being sluts or asking for it, but even more shame on those attention-seeking liars who made it more than just a reasonable doubt in the first place.

reply to post by LightOrange


Not sure Compassion Is your strongest quality...

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
reply to post by LightOrange

 

Not sure Compassion Is your strongest quality...

Not sure if empty 1-liners are tolerated on ATS.

Either way, I'd invite you to tell that to my husband if you want to get a good laugh.

I have compassion for people who have been wronged, make no mistake. Rape is a deplorable human consistency. Like I said, though, men also get raped, and nobody seems to care. There aren't outreach centers or safe houses for the victims.

See, I address the actual problem that caused those people to be wronged instead of making up some aggressive, sexist nonsense and adhering to it no matter how idiotic it's proven to be.

Originally posted by 123143
One thing I've noticed about rape cases that really disgusts me. It's always the woman's fault.

This society is sick.

This may come as a shock to you, but sometimes, it actually is the woman’s fault! If a woman gets so drunk that she passes out and gets raped, she does deserve some of the blame. Obviously the rapists get the majority, but the victim shouldn’t get away free. We live in an individualistic predatory society. There is no one to watch your back. If you are dumb enough to let your guard down in a chaotic situation, you sure as hell deserve some of the blame. It is unfortunate this happened. But she did place herself in a valunriable position and she paid for it. Its one thing to have someone slip you a date rape drug (as far as i know this girl was not) or break into your house. Its another to go beyond your limits and purposely get yourself into a bad situation. People need to take personal responsibility.

Originally posted by david99118

This may come as a shock to you, but sometimes, it actually is the woman’s fault! If a woman gets so drunk that she passes out and gets raped, she does deserve some of the blame. Obviously the rapists get the majority
, but the victim shouldn’t get away free.

We live in an individualistic predatory society. There is no one to watch your back. If you are dumb enough to let your guard down in a chaotic situation, you sure as hell deserve some of the blame.

What???

So your saying a person who is the victim of theft,is also at fault for having things to steal.

Or a person who is assaulted is at fault for being alive and breathing.

Etc etc

A victum of such a crime as rape or the above is at no fault,even if they are passed out drunk.

People need to take personal responsibility.

Please take some for what you just wrote.

Originally posted by gps777

Originally posted by david99118

This may come as a shock to you, but sometimes, it actually is the woman’s fault! If a woman gets so drunk that she passes out and gets raped, she does deserve some of the blame. Obviously the rapists get the majority
, but the victim shouldn’t get away free.

We live in an individualistic predatory society. There is no one to watch your back. If you are dumb enough to let your guard down in a chaotic situation, you sure as hell deserve some of the blame.

What???

So your saying a person who is the victim of theft,is also at fault for having things to steal.

Or a person who is assaulted is at fault for being alive and breathing.

Etc etc

A victum of such a crime as rape or the above is at no fault,even if they are passed out drunk.

It's more like saying a person who closes their shop for the night, but first puts the till outside and props the door open is obviously more than a little at fault for being a complete moron.

It's more like saying a person who was assaulted because they made fun of someone's dead mother and spat on their 6 month old child was at least a little at fault for being a complete social reject.

So why isn't a woman who gets plastered in a situation with nothing but a bunch of men and getting "raped" (I mean, who really knows if she consented?) allowed to be considered a bimbo?

Do you not see the double standard in relation to the other crimes that you brought up yourself?

I also would like to take this time to point out that your sub-2nd-grade spelling and grammar comprehension is going to give me an aneurysm.

Originally posted by LightOrange
Any poster here who would attribute rape to "Toxic Masculinity" receives a 0/10 on an intellectual scale from yours truly.

What do we call it when females are the perpetrators of rape? "Estrogen Vitriol"?

Oh wait, we just call it "sexual assault" and give them lesser sentences than a male perp would get.

And if a man is being physically abused by his significant other?

Big joke, nobody cares. Shelters reject them, society mocks them, and the legal system ignores them.

...But it's "masculinity" that oppresses and shames the opposite gender...? Right.

.

Here I was thinking you were a level headed women,to know the above and what happens to men.

Originally posted by LightOrange
It's more like saying a person who closes their shop for the night, but first puts the till outside and props the door open is obviously more than a little at fault for being a complete moron.

I see,so to you its ok to steal from morons,got it.

It's more like saying a person who was assaulted because they made fun of someone's dead mother and spat on their 6 month old child was at least a little at fault for being a complete social reject.

Spitting and verbally hurting peoples feelings is also alright in your eye`s to assault someone.

So why isn't a woman who gets plastered in a situation with nothing but a bunch of men and getting "raped" (I mean, who really knows if she consented?) allowed to be considered a bimbo?

She could have been a bimbo,that doesn`t give anyone the right to rape her that you seem to be doing.

Do you not see the double standard in relation to the other crimes that you brought up yourself?

I see you justifying the perpetrators of serious crime.

I also would like to take this time to point out that your sub-2nd-grade spelling and grammar comprehension is going to give me an aneurysm.

Not a lot I can do about that,other than hope you get over being a gramma nazi as well.


Just to recap,in your opinion...

If a person is considered a bimbo its her fault for being raped.

If a person is a moron,its ok to steal from them.

If a persons feeling are hurt verbally,they have the right to assault the person.

If a persons level of education isn`t as high as yours,that makes you more intelligent and therefore your morals are superior.

I have my doubts you are a women,for all I know you could be a male rapist who blames the women.


You want to defend these acts and low lifes,thats up to you,you`ve lost the respect I had for you from the first post that I read from you on this page.

Originally posted by gps777

So your saying a person who is the victim of theft,is also at fault for having things to steal.

i said blame not fault. i did that for a very precise reason. blame is commonly used to disperse ownership over a number of variables. fault on the other hand implies 100% ownership. in reference to theft, i would only use fault if the owner of the stolen item reasonably did everything they could to prevent the theft. yet, as the other poster stated, if the owner provided free access to their property i would have no problem placing some of the blame on them.

Or a person who is assaulted is at fault for being alive and breathing.

under the right circumstances, yes. if i go to parts of Seattle, find some big burly black dude minding his own business. walk up to him and at the top of my lungs call him a filthy 'n-word'. i fully expect to get my ass kicked and to receive most of the blame. i purposely put myself in a bad position when it was not needed and likely would not have developed had i not taken such stupid courses of action.

A victum of such a crime as rape or the above is at no fault,even if they are passed out drunk.

its this kind of black/white thinking that leads to the creation of a nanny state. if people are so unwilling to take care of themselves, then clearly the state has to protect them.

People need to take personal responsibility.

Please take some for what you just wrote.

This makes absolutely no sense. please elaborate.

Originally posted by david99118

i said blame not fault. i did that for a very precise reason. blame is commonly used to disperse ownership over a number of variables. fault on the other hand implies 100% ownership. in reference to theft, i would only use fault if the owner of the stolen item reasonably did everything they could to prevent the theft. yet, as the other poster stated, if the owner provided free access to their property i would have no problem placing some of the blame on them.

So you are admitting it was their fault someone stole from them,but only if an owner provided enough security that the pair of you are happy with,then it was all the criminals fault.

oh and Blame/fault
Semantics

tr.v. blamed, blam·ing, blames
1. To hold responsible.
2. To find fault with; censure.
3. To place responsibility for (something): blamed the crisis on poor planning.
n.
1. The state of being responsible for a fault or error; culpability.
2. Censure; condemnation.
Idiom:
to blame
1. Deserving censure; at fault.
2. Being the cause or source of something: A freak storm was to blame for the power outage.
www.thefreedictionary.com...

under the right circumstances, yes. if i go to parts of Seattle, find some big burly black dude minding his own business. walk up to him and at the top of my lungs call him a filthy 'n-word'. i fully expect to get my ass kicked and to receive most of the blame. i purposely put myself in a bad position when it was not needed and likely would not have developed had i not taken such stupid courses of action.

Why because he was never taught sticks and stones,that he then in your opinion has the right to assault you to any degree for being verbally abussive,now if you laid a hand on him,he has the right to defend himself.

This is your example of justifying gang rape on a passed out girl.

its this kind of black/white thinking that leads to the creation of a nanny state. if people are so unwilling to take care of themselves, then clearly the state has to protect them.

This topic is about a girl being raped while passed out by a football team and them thinking its such a joke.

(ETA and not one male there stopped them.)

Then people such as yourself are seeing the girl who is at fault for being there and being passed out.

Its this line of thinking why the worlds in such a mess,which brings in a nanny state,that you don`t want.

This makes absolutely no sense. please elaborate.

See above.

My only grievence really was the title of the thread "Toxic Masculinity" which then made way for many women to jump on it and males in general.

This is a Feminazi bull# post. What is the purpose of it?

Rape does exist, along with a whole lot of false accusations, which is really sad for the real rape victims out there.

Stop demonizing "masculinity". Being male is increasingly being frowned upon, turning men into emasculated pussies who are decreasingly able to manage their expectations and maintain order in their lives. That's obviously not attractive. Stop encouraging emasculation, as rape is NOT a "masculine" trait. There are enough cases of women raping or molesting, although the women involved are usually given a slap on the wrist.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions. Women couldn't live without "masculinity" in their lives.

your use of the dictionary definition is irrelevant. as i said, "blame is commonly used to disperse ownership over a number of variables. fault on the other hand implies 100% ownership." i am explaining how the words are commonly used, not their definitions and thus not semantics. it is no different than "bitch". a bitch is a female dog in heat, but has become used for an insult to women, men and inanimate objects. semantics become pointless when dealing with how the word is being used. another word is "state" which can be used to explain an objects current existence, a nation, or to express something via language. those are the way in which the word is used.

as for the nanny state, i never said i dident want it. i personally dont care.

basically everything i have typed boils down to CONTEXT over CONTENT. if you can not grasp this i understand. i presume you are American and, as such, you were trained to be content focused rather than context focused. i assume this is because of our younger culture as compared to the Europeans and Asians who tend to be more context focused.

no one here is saying she deserved to be raped. only that her actions needlessly put her in a bad situation that could have been avoided fairly easily. a lot of the problems in life can be mitigated if people would simply take responsibility for them selves. it would be nice if we could go about our lives carefree and ignorant, but we cant. we are predators, not angels.

reply to post by SinkingSun


I agree with all of your thoughts there SinkingSun.

What happened to the girl is being used to paint all men with a broad brush in that article imo.

Onward march of the feminazi.

Originally posted by david99118
*SNIPPED*

no one here is saying she deserved to be raped. only that her actions needlessly put her in a bad situation that could have been avoided fairly easily. a lot of the problems in life can be mitigated if people would simply take responsibility for them selves. it would be nice if we could go about our lives carefree and ignorant, but we cant. we are predators, not angels.

"only that her actions" "put her in a bad situation" "that could have been avoided"

You point fault toward her that she should hold 100% accountability and none to all the males that raped or watched.

Where are the males actions? that used the situation? that anyone of them could have stopped so it would have been avoided?

She holds 0% responsability for being raped by them.

By being drunk and stupid (though she may have been drugged?) she is 100% responsable.

There would be many places people feel safe to be in the world,but when crap happens you can`t blame them for the unknown or actions of others.Its fantastic when other people step in or up to the situation to help.

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
reply to post by LightOrange

 

Not sure Compassion Is your strongest quality...

Not sure if empty 1-liners are tolerated on ATS.

Either way, I'd invite you to tell that to my husband if you want to get a good laugh.

I have compassion for people who have been wronged, make no mistake. Rape is a deplorable human consistency. Like I said, though, men also get raped, and nobody seems to care. There aren't outreach centers or safe houses for the victims.

See, I address the actual problem that caused those people to be wronged instead of making up some aggressive, sexist nonsense and adhering to it no matter how idiotic it's proven to be.

edit on 19-3-2013 by LightOrange because: (no reason given)

The reason why no body's seems to care about male rape is because the example given in the original post is of a teenage girl who was drugged and raped by her high school peers. Seems a little off topic to me for people to be flatly stating that "Men get raped to" without actually discussing this girls ordeal.

Furthermore, you dont seem to have explored the idea of "Toxic masculinity" and instead just dismissed it straight off the bat, would love to know your reasoning for that.

This idea of "toxic masculinity" is a tragically rather expected theater of self-appreciating, misanthropic adolescence from the tables of the same deluded, confused rape victims who don't know how to deal with their emotions through any avenue other than direct backlash and generalization of a group of people who just-so-happen to be half of the damn planet's population.

Speaking of generalizations, not all rape victims are like that. Just thought you should know. Secondly, expecting a rape victim to just "get on with life and not having feelings of anger over what happened" is where i feel you lack compassion.

Also, saying such an obvious fact to them will force them to turn off their brains, get offended, and start tossing around the vagina monologue mantras -- perpetual adolescence in it's brightest face -- blinding the public eye.

Because you don't think what your saying is insensitive? And what's all this about vagina monologue mantra's? Perpetual adolescence? The way you talk LightOrange, its almost as if you expect a rape victim to suck it up... like a man. Even scarier the idea that female rape victims are not allowed to express their anger because "men get raped to"

What exactly are you suggesting? That rape just be accepted among the populous and just go unreported because it has a chance of happening to everyone?

And it wasn't an empty one liner, i genuinely thought you were unaware of what compassion was so i linked you to the definition. You're Welcome

If people want to talk and raise awareness about male rape on ATS then they should make a thread instead of trying to hijack a thread talking about a specific case of male on female rape.

Originally posted by LightOrange
Any poster here who would attribute rape to "Toxic Masculinity" receives a 0/10 on an intellectual scale from yours truly.

Okay let us break this sucker down (we're dealing with an intellectual here):

First the ""quotes make a huge difference "Toxic" masculinity is a whole different then "Toxic Masculinity". The first recognizes that there is a toxic form of masculinity; the second, implies that all masculinity is toxic.

The definition of 'Toxic" From Dictionary.com

tox·ic [tok-sik] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, affected with, or caused by a toxin or poison: a toxic condition.
2.
acting as or having the effect of a poison; poisonous: a toxic drug.
3.
pertaining to or noting debt that will probably not be repaid: toxic mortgages.
4.
pertaining to or noting a financial instrument or other asset that has no value or an unknown value because there is no market for it: toxic mortgage-backed securities.
noun
5.
a toxic chemical or other substance.

And we move on to:

What do we call it when females are the perpetrators of rape? "Estrogen Vitriol"?

Now this is poorly formed. Femininity would be the anagolous word and Toxic would work as a bridge. The analogy to Estrogen would be Testosterone, which could be what you mean.

Vitriol from the dictionary.com

vit·ri·ol [vi-tree-uhl] Show IPA noun, verb, vit·ri·oled, vit·ri·ol·ing or ( especially British ) vit·ri·olled, vit·ri·ol·ling.
noun
1.
Chemistry . any of certain metallic sulfates of glassy appearance, as copper sulfate or blue vitriol, iron sulfate or green vitriol, zinc sulfate or white vitriol, etc.
2.
oil of vitriol; sulfuric acid.
3.
something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism.
verb (used with object)
4.
to treat with or as with vitriol, especially sulfuric acid.

I assume you are using the third definition.

Oh wait, we just call it "sexual assault" and give them lesser sentences than a male perp would get.

A criminal and I would want to see statistics and sources for your suposition that females receive lesser sentences then males in similar circumstances.

And if a man is being physically abused by his significant other?

Again a criminal.

Big joke, nobody cares. Shelters reject them, society mocks them, and the legal system ignores them.

No - and people do care. There isn't as much help available (and their is d**n little for women too). You are right that domestic violence is not a national priority.

...But it's "masculinity" that oppresses and shames the opposite gender...? Right.

.

I said, nor did the author of the article say, anything of the sort. If you had read the material calmly you would have seen this. I suspect this hit a nerve - and would ask, that instead of lashing out at people (verbally, physically, spiritually) and yourself, you seek healing for this wound. This type of 'lashing out' is a symptom of the very 'Toxic' masculinity that we are speaking of and it affects, not only men (think Boy Code, Winning at any Cost, Never Admitting Wrongdoing, etc), but women, children, our society at large. In fact read "Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons from..." by William S. Pollack or just google "the Boy Code".

This idea of "toxic masculinity" is a tragically rather expected theater of self-appreciating, misanthropic adolescence from the tables of the same deluded, confused rape victims who don't know how to deal with their emotions through any avenue other than direct backlash and generalization of a group of people who just-so-happen to be half of the damn planet's population. Also, saying such an obvious fact to them will force them to turn off their brains, get offended, and start tossing around the vagina monologue mantras -- perpetual adolescence in it's brightest face -- blinding the public eye.

Also, shame on those who automatically accuse those who are raped of being sluts or asking for it, but even more shame on those attention-seeking liars who made it more than just a reasonable doubt in the first place.

Not too coherent - fancy words with little substance - nice spelling, BTW - Your pain is palpable.

And for all of you that have brought up the rapes of males - not just assault - but a sexual assault.

From (even shows sources) thehathorlegacy.com...

* Little research has been done on male rape, so statistics are fuzzy. But here is what is known:

- 1 in 10 rape victims are men. (Rathus, Nevid and Fichner-Rathus, 568)

- In a survey answered by hundreds of rape and sexual assault support agencies, they estimated that 93.7 percent of male rape perpetrators are male and 6.3 percent were female. (Greenberg, Bruess and Haffner, 575)

- Many people do not believe that male rape by a female exists. However, penile erection can be achieved under emotional duress such as anger, fear, and pain even if the male does not wish it. (Greenberg, Bruess and Haffner, 576; Lips, 234)

And from the same article - maybe a better way to phase "Toxic" Masculinity - Let's call it "Toxic" Patriarchy:

* Quotes finding patriarchal societies being the main reason for rape and sexual assault:

- “Rape-free societies were characterized by sexual equality in which both genders shared power and were deemed to make important contributions, albeit in different ways, to the welfare of the society” (Rathus, Nevid, and Fichner-Rathus, 573).

- “The more egalitarian and integrated the society, the less rape” (Schwartz and Rutter, 69).


Rathus, Spencer A., Jeffrey S. Nevid, and Lois Fichner-Rathus. Human Sexuality in a
World of Diversity. Third Ed. Needham Heights, MA. Viacom Company, 1997.

Schwartz, Pepper and Virginia Rutter. The Gender of Sexuality: The Gender Lens.
Thousand Oaks, CA. Pine Forge Press, 1998.