Can you Deny Reincarnation exists?

reply to post by Akragon


A better question is can you prove it... why am i going to go about it the other way.. I think proving it "exists" falls on you.

Maybe I should ask you to prove God does not exist.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So what's up with Jesus still having wounds in his hands after his resurrection? Was there a glitch in the restoration process or something?

reply to post by Akragon


If the universe oscillates between expansion and contraction, and does so an infinite number of times, It stands to reason it will reform the same stars and planets on occasion and even us. So in effect we have been here an infinite number of times and will be here an infinite number of times because in the infinity of the universe re-expanding we will be here again and again. Except next time you may be here as Elvis, or a circus clown, or a cow. Maybe that's how reincarnation works. And Karma IE the positive or negative energy you generate decides which way your consciousnesses travels, to higher or lower forms.

reply to post by Akragon


Reincarnation is possible or so I believe, the buddist religion talks of the wheel of dharma and Ezekiel saw the strange aspect of god as a being enthroned over four wheel's with eye's in them, I once read that emperor Constantine and his mother Helena who had the first bible as we know it compiled had all reference to reincarnation deleted or not included as the idea was it may make people think they had multiple lives to repent of the sin's of today,.

When Jacob lay at luz that he afterward called Bethel he saw a ladder between heaven and earth and the angel's descending and ascending.

Reincarnation may not be incompatable with Christianity as Christ said it is given for a man to be born die once then the resurrection, but how long before a soul is worthy of becoming a man.

I personally don't want to believe in reincarnation as this world is too sad but I do believe in life after death of the body and in a spirit world, I also believe there is a war between good and evil there, it may be that there are many world's beyond this and that reincarnation is real for some people.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


He said that the body would be restored and regenerated; this doesn't discount that some physical features are still present. After all, how would we be able to recognize that our body were truly ours without some physical markers.

You'd said earlier:

In my mind the biblical "resurrection" is none other than reincarnation.

This simply isn't the case. Jesus was resurrected. He wasn't a baby again when he resurrected; he was a 30 some odd year old man. He didn't reincarnate. His body was different, yes. But others could still recognize him.

Don't forget Lazarus' resurrection in John 11.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a great source that points toward reincarnation in the bible, along with many other things.

How does the story of the rich man and Lazarus (who is a different Lazarus) proof reincarnation? The rich man seems pretty concerned that his family would end up where he was. If reincarnation played a role at all he wouldn't have been because ultimately he, and his family members, would escape hell.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

He said that the body would be restored and regenerated; this doesn't discount that some physical features are still present. After all, how would we be able to recognize that our body were truly ours without some physical markers.

Still having wounds on his side, hands, and feet means his body was not restored or regenerated. Did his apostles only recognize him by his wounds before his resurrection? No, they recognized his face and personality, so the wounds needing to be there for his apostles to recognize him is a weak argument in my opinion.

This simply isn't the case. Jesus was resurrected. He wasn't a baby again when he resurrected; he was a 30 some odd year old man. He didn't reincarnate. His body was different, yes. But others could still recognize him.

How can you be so sure he really walked out of that cave? Are you so sure that someone couldn't have made that whole part up in order to push an agenda? Greeks and Romans invented whole stories around their false gods, so what makes you think they couldn't have done it again?

How was his body different if he still had the crucifixion wounds on him. How exactly was his body different?

How does the story of the rich man and Lazarus (who is a different Lazarus) proof reincarnation? The rich man seems pretty concerned that his family would end up where he was. If reincarnation played a role at all he wouldn't have been because ultimately he, and his family members, would escape hell.

edit on 17/3/2013 by octotom because: Added stuff.

It's talking about karma. Lazarus was poor and denied by the rich man, then once they both die their roles are switched where Lazarus is now rich and the rich man poor. It's easily interpreted as reincarnation.

Funny how Abraham is the main character while in Hades. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So what's up with Jesus still having wounds in his hands after his resurrection? Was there a glitch in the restoration process or something?

Personally I think He kept them as trophies of His greatest achievement and victory.

I certainly would have as well.

reply to post by Akragon


No I can't deny it. I believe it does exist. There is a thing called Karma though, so don't believe you can be the most evil person in the world and get a second chance at living. If you were an evil soul in this life, you will be denied to live again.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Not much of a victory if your children are still starving and suffering 2,000 years later, but to each his own I guess.

reply to post by Akragon



Funny you should bring this up. I read my study bible NKJ version nightly, and I believe it was in Mathew where I saw a scripture that at the time 'clicked' in my mind on that very subject. I was thinking to myself, 'That clinches it, there is no reincarnation' Mind you, that was what it read into it, and reading much before, and much after that particular scripture, I made no mistake in context as one can by picking and choosing a scripture here and there. I'll have to go now and look again and try to locate it. Then we can discuss it further..... later..

reply to post by Haxsaw


For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come. (Matt. 11:13-14)
And the disciples asked him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

But he answered them and said, "Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand."

Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13)

Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4:5)

The Hebrew scriptures prophesied that Elijah himself - not someone like him or someone in the same ministry as him but Elijah himself - would return before the advent of the Messiah. Jesus declared John to be Elijah when he stated that Elijah has come.
John was Elijah himself which means that Elijah reincarnated as John the Baptist. And if this is true then reincarnation must belong once again in Christian theology. It also means that the concept of corpses crawling out of graves on Judgment Day can be discarded. OR...John was not Elijah reincarnated which means that Elijah himself did not return. And if this is true then either what is below is true:
Malachi's prophecy concerning Elijah's return to life before the coming of the Messiah failed to happen. This would mean that God does not keep his promise and that the Bible is fallible. OR Jesus was not the Messiah!

There are many other scriptures that confirm reincarnation within His word. I believe we are judged at the end of each life, and if we do not learn, we will live that life we judge. That is just a thought within me, and does not contradict scripture. If so, what a patient God we have

Originally posted by Templeton
reply to post by Akragon

 

You say that reincarnation is possible because literally all things are possible by God. I challenge your commitment to that stance.

Can God create a mountain so large that he himself cannot move it?

making it so large?

theres nothing posibble about it?

so large that he himself cannot move it?

thats a different story.

Reincarnation would keep a stable population.... or are only some so privileged????

Originally posted by pacifier2012
Reincarnation would keep a stable population.... or are only some so privileged????

No it would not. You tend to reincarnate going up the food chain. With all the animals that are disappearing over time due to man's influence means many of those come back as humans.

Probably why the human race is what it is lately. I swear sometimes you can tell the people that were formerly Jackals and ex-poodles, you know, all bark and no bite, they come back as right wing twits.

If you do something really bad you come back as cattle. That is what happens to ex-politicians. Moooooo!

P

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not much of a victory if your children are still starving and suffering 2,000 years later, but to each his own I guess.

He didn't die on the cross to solve world hunger.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


No, in reality he didn't seem to solve anything at all. What really changed, some supernatural BS with no real impact. Seems to me the only person it satisfied is his Dad.

P

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

No, in reality he didn't seem to solve anything at all. What really changed, some supernatural BS with no real impact. Seems to me the only person it satisfied is his Dad.

P

Read Isaiah 53. You seem to be confused as to His purpose and achievement.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Wow, that's pretty cruel of the Father then. His Son was sweating blood and praying in the garden that there could be another way for the redemption of man to be accomplished apart from the cross and the Father forgot to mention reincarnation.

So you're blaming his death on God?

That's a little twisted don't ya think?

Do you also believe Jesus was afraid of death?

Or was he afraid of what was about to happen to him in order that he die?

Even that chapter in Hebrews gives you your answer and as I've said it has absolutely nothing to do with reincarnation... HE had to die once... not be reborn...

We are not on the same level as him... IF we were on his level spiritually speaking, we would not need to incarnate at all...

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by Akragon

 

Hebrews 9:27 is NOT in any way related to reincarnation... That chapter has NOTHING to do with reincarnation what so ever... It is not the subject being discussed...

No the chapter isn't about reincarnation; it's about Christ's atonement for us. That doesn't change what the writer to the Hebrews argues in verse 27, which is just as people die once and then comes judgement, so Christ only died once for our sins, and not continually. He draws and analogy.

The contents of the chapter doesn't change what the author implies. We live and die once. Then we're judged. Anyone that knows biblical theology as well will know that there is only one judgement.

The verses which you cite have nothing to do with the afterlife. They're about salvation. God can do all things which are in keeping with his being. Thus there are things that God can't do; he can't sin for example. He can't tempt anyone to sin either.

By denying salvation I don't deny the power of God, because God has said how things work. Unless you want to say that you are somehow denying God's power by saying that he can't sin.

Those verses aside, I will say that I deny reincarnation. Let's look at what Job has to say:

For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me! (19:25-27)

Job knew that he would be resurrected in his flesh. He knew that he himself would stand with his redeemer at the last day. With his own eyes he would see this. If there is reincarnation then he wouldn't experience this personally in his body. He was expecting this to happen to him, not some reincarnation of him sometime down the road.

From a biblical viewpoint, Job destroys the idea of reincarnation.

Im sorry but that is quite literally the Worst argument I've ever heard anyone give as far as "scriptural evidence" that reincarnation doesn't exist...

Though I will give you one thing.... Im glad you enjoy the book of Job...

Let me ask you my friend

How does one return to their mothers womb?



Job 1
20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,

21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

From a biblical stand point... Job destroys your non-argument against reincarnation

reply to post by DarksDeception


Here's a little tip for interpreting scripture. Whenever you see the words in verse 15 below, immediately following, it means that Jesus is speaking in parables and nothing is as it seems.

Matthew 11:14-15

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

When John was asked if he was indeed Elijah, John told them NO!

John 1:21

1 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Jesus was telling them that John would be paving the way for him, just like Elijah paved the way for Yahweh. John was Jesus' Elijah.