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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Druscilla
So lets assume Ufo isnt Alien Druscillia. I observed a spherical orange object with wing span of aprox airbus fly very fast under the low hanging blanket of cloud cover; and it came to an abrupt standstill in the air and hovered nearly right over where i was standing. What was it? Please dont say a hallicination or other garabage like that. What was it if it wasnt Alien?
Originally posted by Komodo
*is anxiously waiting ...
Druscillia's reply."
Originally posted by karl 12
That's always a nice excuse given by cynics to comfort themselves about not taking the UFO subject seriously
but what about EM effect / physical trace cases or incidents where unknown objects have been tracked and plotted on (sometimes multiple) radar screens in the same area of sky as to where they're being reported by eye-witnesses?
Originally posted by Brighter
Good points. But I think you could even argue on independent grounds that we're quite skilled observers the majority of the time - our perceptual skills coupled with our higher-order interpretive abilities are largely responsible for our very existence and the fact that we're the dominant species on earth.
Debunkers just focus on instances of mistaken observation, but if you're going to be honest and objective, you'd have to admit that, for every case of mistaken observation, a person experiences thousands upon thousands of accurate observation.
"Skeptics, who flatly deny the existence of any unexplained phenomenon in the name of 'rationalism,' are among the primary contributors to the rejection of science by the public. People are not stupid and they know very well when they have seen something out of the ordinary. When a so-called expert tells them the object must have been the moon or a mirage, he is really teaching the public that science is impotent or unwilling to pursue the study of the unknown."
Dr. Jacques Vallee, astrophysicist
"There are too many independent eyewitness reports to ignore. Too many of the reports describe coherent physical effects, and there is an agreement among the accounts concerning what was observed... But of course there are also physical effects. The Air Force report [of the F-16 jet scramble incident on the night of March 30-31, 1990] allows us to approach the problem in a rational and scientific way. The simplest hypothesis is that the reports are caused by extraterrestrial visitors, but that hypothesis carries with it other problems. We are not in a rush to form a conclusion, but continue to study the mystery."
Dr. Auguste Meessen, Professor of physics at the Catholic University in Louvain.
"The phenomenon seems to be real... The general coherence of sighting reports worldwide should not leave researchers indifferent. One does not conceive objective arguments to justify an attitude that would avoid at all cost these observations... The risk is, at worst, to confirm the existence of unknown vehicles appearing erratically into our atmosphere - a hypothesis that seems to explain nearly all reported aspects of the phenomenon and could be linked to the current (1970) exobiology branch of space research." (1971 Statistical Study prepared for the CNES and French officials.)
Dr. Claude Poher, expert on aeronautics, astronomy and astronautics, engineer at the French Space Agency (CNES) for thirty years
Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Great listening and the Muskegon incident in 1994 was definitely something "different"
"Here we had a number of object seen coming in across the North Sea on coastal radar. It looked like a Russian mistake. Jet aircraft were scrambled. The objects were travelling at quite impossible speeds like 4-5000 mph and then came to an abrupt halt near to one of these stations not very high up. Jet aircraft picked them up on aircraft radar. The objects then simply made rings round them."
Ralph Noyes,Senior Official with British Air Ministry - retired as Under Secretary of State in 1977
"During the 1955 Warsaw Pact exercises, a radar station in the area of Warsaw recognized two targets over the Gulf of Gdansk. The targets were moving at a speed of 2,300 km/h at an altitude of 20 thousand meters. In those days there was no aircraft with such performance. At one point it was noticed that the two objects did a 90 degrees turn, literally on the spot with no turning radius. This maneuver at such high speeds cannot be done. Most modern aircraft are unable to do so even today, and that was 50 years ago".
Colonel Ryszard Grundmanem - Former Head of Poland's 'Air Traffic, Air Force and Air Defense'
“What I saw defied all logic and was, quite frankly, extraordinary. It wasn’t just me, more than 30 pairs of eyes of RAF staff and radar operators at Heathrow Airport witnessed the same thing. I instantly knew this wasn’t a convoy of military planes -the only craft with that rate of climb were supersonic lightning aircraft but they wouldn’t have been able to hold such a perfect formation".
RAF Wing Commander Alan Turner (MBE).
"There is no other conclusion I can reach but that for six hours on the morning of the 20th of July, 1952 there were at least ten unidentifiable objects moving above Washington....I can safely deduce that they performed gyrations which no known aircraft could perform. By this I mean that our scope showed that they could make right angle turrns and complete reversals of flight".
Senior Air Route Traffic Controller Harry Barnes
"When you have the view of the airspace and the radar screen and you see the UFOs go around twenty or thirty miles a second – that is very real. They can turn suddenly almost 90 degrees in a second or half a second. The UFOs can go vertically straight up very quickly."
Mexico City Senior Air Traffic Controller, Enrique Kolbeck
"We had objects with four-way confirmation – ground visual, ground radar, airborne visual, airborne radar. It doesn’t get any better than that. In my following of unusual aerial phenomena for the past 50 years, there seems to be some reason to discredit very viable and very reputable witnesses when they say something is unidentified."
US Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown
“On several occasions the instruments gave reading of material objects moving at incredible speed. Calculations showed speeds of about 230 knots, of 400 kph. Speeding so fast is a challenge even on the surface. But water resistance is much higher. It was like the objects defied the laws of physics. There’s only one explanation: the creatures who built them far surpass us in development".
Russian Naval Rear Admiral Yury Beketov
"Of these UFO reports,the radar/visual reports are the most convincing. When a ground radar picks up a UFO target and a ground observer sees a light where the radar target is located,then a jet interceptor is scrambled to intercept the UFO and the pilot also sees the lights and gets a radar lock only to have the UFO almost impudently outdistance him,there is no simple answer."
Edward J Ruppelt USAF Capt 1956
According to worthy information of faith, in our atmosphere objects arrive at high speed. No aircraft, neither in the United States, either in the Soviet Union is currently able to achieve the speed attributed to these objects from the radars and from the observatories.
Admiral S. Fahrney,head missile testing of the American Navy
link
Originally posted by DAVID64
I think they've seen things for years and have been muzzled. Government is scared spitless of ET. If they came here, they have tech we can't imagine. And we are no match for it. If people knew ET was up there buzzing around, many would be terrified, thinking we are being invaded. There could be world wide panic, causing untold damage. They're going to cover it up as long as possible.
............................Just waiting for the ones who will come, claiming to know ET's plan. You know they'll be along shortly.edit on 16-3-2013 by DAVID64 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Thunda
reply to post by cripmeister
You can take it into account, certainly, but using it as a 'one size fits all' explanation for all UFO sightings is disingenuous and untruthful.
If we were such bad observers, we wouldnt be able to drive cars, fly aircraft, cross roads or observe scientific test results. Our ancestors would have perished from not being able to tell the difference between food and predators. Humans have good eyes, two of them, on the front of their head giving us stereoscopic, colour vision. Yes, we do fall prey to optical illusions occasionally, but you cannot explain the entire UFO phenomenon with that.
An effect important to the UFO problem is demonstrated by the records: the excited observers who thought they had witnessed a very strange phenomenon produced the most detailed, longest, and most misconceived reports, but those who by virtue of experience most nearly recognized the nature of the phenomenon became the least excited and produced the briefest reports. The "excitedness effect" has an important bearing on the UFO problem. It is a selection effect by which the least accurate reports are made more prominent (since the observer becomes highly motivated to make a report), while the most accurate reports may not be recorded. Source
Sure, a tiny light in the dark of the night can be misconstrued, but structured craft witnessed close up cannot be written off with 'yeah, well, humans are terrible observers'.
Originally posted by cripmeister
It is not that our eyesight is at fault, especially when dealing with familiar things in everyday life. It is when we are confronted with unfamiliar stimulus in stressful situations that our limitations start to show themselves. There is also something that can be called the exitedness effect which I think plays a role in UFO reporting.
An effect important to the UFO problem is demonstrated by the records: the excited observers who thought they had witnessed a very strange phenomenon produced the most detailed, longest, and most misconceived reports, but those who by virtue of experience most nearly recognized the nature of the phenomenon became the least excited and produced the briefest reports. The "excitedness effect" has an important bearing on the UFO problem. It is a selection effect by which the least accurate reports are made more prominent (since the observer becomes highly motivated to make a report), while the most accurate reports may not be recorded. Source
"Our study would be conducted exclusively by "Non Believers". The trick would be, I think, to describe the project so that to the public it would appear a totally objective study. Conclusion...There is no secrecy and no evidence that such objects even exist."
Memorandum from Robert Low (before the report was started) - Project Administrator CONDON Report to Colorado University V.P. Thurston Marshall
Originally posted by cripmeister
It is not that our eyesight is at fault, especially when dealing with familiar things in everyday life. It is when we are confronted with unfamiliar stimulus in stressful situations that our limitations start to show themselves.
Originally posted by Komodo
wanted to post this awesome thread up ..
wrap your heads around this for 20mins worth of reading and .. read it again ....
UFO Giant Scaling Project
intresting is the size of 'unknowns' out there eh?