'Paedophilia not criminal condition' says Durban cardinal

reply to post by metalholic


dude, the hell is wrong with you?

No.

that is NOT a normal persons thought pattern.

reply to post by tadaman


I had a friend who joked around about putting it in his moms mouth. She walked around the house with her pants to tight up front you could see it pretty good. He talked about sittin on the stairs listening to his mom and dad in the bed room and how his mom turned his dad down.

Him and his dad got into it. His dad got drunk and asked me if I could be my friend up. She coddled him a lot. When we were young 4-5 yrs old he tried doing something to me.

I'm pretty sure he was sleeping with his mom. He didn't like his brother too much. I wonder looking back if maybe he didn't like his brother because of 2 reasons he was a incest baby or it was because it was his dads.

reply to post by tadaman


Normal brain patterns didn't get us here and it won't take us further. As long as logic is diluted with emotions how can anything ever be figured out or understood?

Don't ask questions you don't wanna hear actual thoroughly thought out answers to.

reply to post by metalholic


Im not sure , do u ?

reply to post by STARTRUTH49


Considering that before it all went down she offered one of them (full blooded brother) a bj if he didn't start a fight with me. Although she denied it.

And being that I've seen and been around weird crap like that all my life. Including at 6 yrs old having a 4 yr old teach me how to make out while her mom babysat us.

I just kinda judge situations by the situation. To actually sit down and believe that anyone labled a paedophile is a bad person and needs to die.

How can I make that judgment? When you have professional porn sites like Brazzers showing you situations of babysitters and teachers and nurses and step daughters even step mothers getting with people.

I mean I've fantasized about a friends mom before even a teacher.

Could I really label them a child molester and hate them had I took advantage of situations and had sex with them?

Knowing full well what I was doing!

I'll leave on that note.

reply to post by metalholic


You know,

after the "matter a fact" comment on the time it takes to reincarnate from you, I am convinced you know everything about everything and we should just shut up as you defend criminals like they were some sort of poor victims...



Your mind is not founded in reality. Your emotional diatribe about these criminals while saying WE are the emotional ones is just strange.

you really should work on that. It is a little of off...

Originally posted by Nevertheless
It seems like almost all, if not everyone responding to this thread seem to have a very strange and scary look on law.

Why should Pedophilia be a crime?
I don't think people have much control of what will turn them on, be it homophilia, pedophilia, zoophilia or anything else weird that may or may not be seen as an illness. A crime it is not, unless you live in a country that has serious issues with the set laws.

In a normal country, rape and molesting are crimes, not feelings, fantasies nor the "will" to do something.

You and all the sickos that gave you a star haven't even checked the interview of said archbishop. He said live on BBC that pedo priests who commit those acts shouldn't be held criminally responsible.

Originally posted by TheWrightWing
reply to post by Freeborn

 

I know many homosexuals, I work in the creative field. I have seen homosexual predation and recruitment, and many are close friends who I know much about. They are nice people who deserve the respect anybody does, but they do not deserve the reverence and special treatment that some activist types insist on.

Homosexuality, like hetero and paedo are only a description of Sexual Preference. Thats it. Thats all that makes one gay, straight, bestial or paedo. There is nothing mysterious or magical about that.

There is very much a pro-gay agenda, to mainstream homosexuality in our society, driven by culture.

You may have noticed the beginning of the same sort of mainstreaming for paedo. Or not, it's just ramping up.

Convincing someone to engage in sex with you is a form of manipulation that ultimately becomes consent. This has nothing to do with age. Anyone can say anyone can be "deemed" unable to consent. Who does this "deeming"?

If we are to embrace one form of sexual deviancy as 'normal' are we to ignore all the arguments to justify it that equally applies to any form of sexual deviancy? If you recall, the big argument is They Are Born That Way and rejecting them for it is Hatred and Bigotry.

What prevents that defense from being applied to any sexual deviancy? Nothing. Nothing at all. Thats the problem.

Homosexuality= likes sex with the same gender = ok
Pedophilia= likes sex with a minor = crime

It don't get any simpler. Comprende?

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~


Well, without reading the whole article, the way I read it is as

pedo aren't criminally taught its born with them like an illness,, where as theft can be taught to become a career criminal, as in a burglar does it because he wants the easy money tax free and will do anything to accomplish that where as the pedos can't stop like alcoholism.

So unless he went on to say I don't think anyone should go to jail for crimes of pedophilia I really can't read it the other way


After reading the article,,,,,, I don't know kinda double edge sword........ I think what he meant to say was you don't punish a psycho because a psycho doesn't know he/she is in the wrong and they need to be fixed first so that they can understand their punishment...

I don't belong to a church and never will but that's what I get out of the article and statement, and in most cases is true, when people are found unstable they are sent to a psycho ward before sent to jail, if they get "fixed" they get released into....jail.

No, that's not what he said. You should bother to actually LISTEN to the interview. There is an audio snippet on the OP's link. He said that pedo priests who engage is such activities shouldn't be held criminally responsible.

Don't make excuses for sickos

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Read it how you want to you have that freedom!

Until emotion is removed from topics you can never know all there is to know.

It's like being in love with someone. Only until you remove your love goggles can you see truth!

I'm simply offering sides of the coin that aren't rehased a million times over all over the world.

If you want to take it as I'm saying the child is to blame then that's your perspective.

But I kinda agree with Dio.

You think the devil is killing the preacher. But how do you know the preacher isn't killing the devil?

How old are these toddlers?

edit on 18-3-2013 by metalholic because: (no reason given)

What's like 'being in love with someone???' What kind of "love goggles" are you wearing?! The disturbing tendencies you seem to have, given your rationale displayed within this thread, lead me to believe your "love goggles" inhibit your willingness to see the moral turpitude in preying on children, and continuing the cycle of sexual child abuse. That is just sick. How can you even attempt to reason away why an adult would commit any sexual acts with a child?? How???

It has been proven without doubt through much reputable research that sexual abuse affects a child's entire life: their socialization, self-esteem, intelligence - their overall ability to grow into a successful, healthy, and happy adult. It is also well known that a person is not emotionally mature, whether male or female, until they've reached their 20's. Having been abused yourself by that 4yr old little girl you mentioned, when you were 6, you know yourself how traumatic the experience was. Why would you want to perpetuate the cycle of abuse? ... Or maybe that incident helped to build this apparent animosity you possess towards the female population in general. How DARE you attempt to pass off accountability of such treachery on the victims?! You are a SICK individual. You need help.

According to your logic, my mother and her 2 sisters were at fault when their father molested them on a nightly basis. They shouldn't have been so provocative and flirtatious huh?? Especially given their ages of 4-5 onward. That was just too much temptation for anyone to deny huh?? ... That would explain why as soon as they got up enough courage to tell my grandmother and confront him, he sold his businesses at a 1/10 of their values and fled the state, staying gone for 20+yrs. Because he KNEW there was nothing wrong in what he did, huh???

You ask how old were these toddlers, exactly??? How about my 4 year old SON, who has been staying with his father every weekend since he was 6 months old (when I left his father), shared with me in January explicitly male sexual acts that he stated Daddy did to him? His 'Daddy' had been one of the best supportive model fathers I've witnessed, compared to most others I know whose parent's separation resulted in negligent and uncaring fathers.. UNTIL this. Just as my grandfather was a model, upstanding citizen, owning many of the businesses in a big coastal city, an active member in the local country club - so was my son's father a perfect facade of how a father should be perceived. Even now I find this entire upheaval in our lives to be an unbelievable nightmare. Nevertheless , it DID happen. Because someone, who apparently thinks along the same lines as you, believes there is nothing wrong in traumatizing an individual for the rest of their life. Maybe my son shouldn't have tempted his own father?? Tell me, what did my son do wrong, so he can avoid this type of treatment in the future?????

His father will go to prison for a very long time, hopefully. Even then that won't be good enough. I agree with many on here - he deserves to die. After being raped on a nightly basis in general population for many many years. He is a short little guy - they'll love him.

With regards to the whole homosexuality and pedophilia thing, pedophilia is not wrong because it is sick, perverted, unnatural, a choice, not a choice, an orientation, an illness, or who knows what other buzzword. If thats the whole reason, then lets legalize it, its not really wrong at all!

But it is wrong because, and only because, it harms children. Thats where the crucial difference lies between homosexuality and pedophilia.

reply to post by metalholic


So if there's grass on the field, play ball? Is that it?

There's also reasons why people are generally attracted to their own age group.

Not so long ago (19th century) a young woman was an old spinster if she hadn't married and produced offspring by the time she was old enough to drive by today's standards. You don't even have to attain enlightenment through meditative focus to realize this. It's on the books as a matter of record. So where are you going with this?

Teen pregnancy is not some misunderstood or unexplained phenomenon. Child rape begs many answers.

We are not discussing people of the same age group having consensual sex or a couple of prepubescents discovery of heavy petting. We are talking about mature, knowledgeable, experienced adults taking advantage of young, pliable, naive children in a very inappropriate way.

This is, in today's society considered different than and abhorrent to responding to the biological imperative of finding a mate for the purpose of procreation.

Talk about emotion. How about having so much carnal desire as to be unable to maintain enough self control to not rape a kid? Children don't know how to deal with such emotion other than to suffer it at the hands of an adult.
Grownups know better, kids do not.

If you found some 30 year old man bearing down on a 10 year old, it wouldn't strike within you a reverberating and disharmonious chord?

Emotion? What you detect is a lack of empathy for the offender and abundance of sympathy for the victim, two very well placed "feelings" that would not get in the way of knowing what needs to be done. I "feel" that the gas chamber is ice cold and emotionally detached as it needs to be. Clinical even.

Distinction is made in age difference. Whereas adolescents and prepubescents are concerned there must be a 5 year age gap. For example, a 16 year old would have to get it on with a 11 year old for it to be considered pedophilia.

4 year old kids and 6 year old kids 'playing doctor' in the romper room isn't child rape. Quite natural. Are you saying it is natural to want to overpower and defile children? If it is then it must be an evolutionary throwback, and we all know what happens to those. Which is as well quite natural.

Here we have priests. Sworn to celibacy. That means they aren't supposed to do it with anybody. So not only are they committing a real crime here on the temporal plane they are also breaking a solemn vow.

I read the article but can't watch videos so maybe I missed something.

Is this cardinal basing an opinion on the claims of two pedo priests or has he done extensive research, interviews etc? What are his medical qualifications?

Pedos are self-serving liars. If they claim past sexual abuse after the fact, I'm sorry but they lost all credibility when they chose rape over getting help. I wouldn't believe anything a rapist says.

The two priests could be lying about being sexually abused as children to garner sympathy. Did they acknowledge the abuse before or after they offended?

Survivors have a lot to overcome. As adults they make a variety of good/bad choices. Many survivors are advocates, caring loving parents and good community members. Sadly some fall into a vicious cycle of self-abuse.

Check the stats. Some prostitutes are survivors of sexual abuse as children. Survivors often self medicate becoming drug addicts, others can end up as criminals of all sorts. These troubled people are routinely arrested/ criminally charged, yet pedo priests are somehow more damaged/worthy of consideration and should be exempt from criminal charges???

If we let rapist priests off the hook because they're "damaged" then we have to give all criminals the same consideration if past sexual abuse can be directly linked to their criminal activity.

So this morning on twitter i was alerted to the fact that this twatwaffle has a twitter account. He clarified is thoughts and position on the matter, and a lot of posters here seem to share his views on the matter. South africans in general don't. His twitter handle is twitter.com... i'm copy pasting because it's easier than a screenshot, but remember that it should be read in segments from the bottom up, due to the timeline.

Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier
I apologise to Victims of Child Abuse offended by misstatement of what was & still is my concern about all abused including abused abuser.
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13h

Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier
Therefore Paedophilia must be treated. What must be punished is the Crime of Sexual Abuse of Children.
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13h
Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier

I believe as every dictionary consulted confirms Paedophilia is a medical condition. What is a crime is the sexual abuse of children.
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13h

Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier
My response: Such abuser should receive treatment to make good the damage done to him? In prison or out of it, that's for experts to decide.
Expand
13h

Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier
Do the Church & society not have to consider the damage he suffered when deciding what to do? Or does the abused abuser lose all his rights?
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13h

Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier
My concern: How can society deal justly, fairly & equitably with the abused, who has suffered incalculable damage, then goes on to abuse?
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13h

Cardinal Napier @CardinalNapier
It's the supreme irony. Because I raised the issue of the abused abuser, I stand accused of insensitivity to the sufferings of the abused.
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I disagree with what he says, and even more with the fact that he is saying it. No organisation should ever be an apologist for such murderous people, regardless their personal history. Considering that many of the cardinal's friends are guilty of this crime against humanity i am astounded at the brazenness.

Also, when i think of how much anti privacy legislation has been passed under the vague mantle of child pornography which is now being called a legitimate sexual preference, well i don't know any more.

We're all being mind****ed, just saying.

double the post, double the fun.

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by metalholic

 

...after the "matter a fact" comment on the time it takes to reincarnate from you, I am convinced you know everything about everything and we should just shut up as you defend criminals like they were some sort of poor victims...

Your mind is not founded in reality. Your emotional diatribe about these criminals while saying WE are the emotional ones is just strange.

edit on 18-3-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

You nailed it tadaman.

Wish I'd seen this one before bothering to write a novel.
I could've used that energy in a more constructive way.

and to stay on topic:
Everyone makes mistakes. Hell, everyone breaks the law in some way from time to time. Many laws should be stricken from the books, probably most of them. There are very few crimes that justify capitol punishment, this just happens to be one of them. (imo) Though as well should be held to the same standard of proof beyond the shadow of doubt as is murder one. No three strikes your out. No special prison within a prison to keep them safe, unless it is Death Row. No lengthy appeals process. No exceptions for clergy.

Originally posted by Spiro

'Paedophilia not criminal condition' says Durban cardinal

www.bbc.co.uk

The Catholic Archbishop of Durban, Wilfrid Fox Napier, has described paedophilia as a psychological "illness, not a criminal condition".

(visit the link for the full news article)

It is psychological illness as the person can not do much to change it. It is like homosexuals. They can not change what they like. They are attracted to other men and nothing can change it. Often even serial killers simply are acting on their nature, which they can not change. It is their brain structure, all kinds of chemical mixes together that turn people into one, although as far as I know, it is not something that they have born into, it is something they have become due to extreme conditions during childhood.

Although, I believe anybody can seek help, when they have such condition. When they decide to act instead of seeking help, they should get punished, as even they know that it is illegal and a horrible act to do, as the victims suffering are innocent kids, who often can not even protect themselves.

A person may have become into a sadistic person, although they still have the option, whether they go and torture somebody or simply seek help, and that is their choice.

reply to post by AllIsOne


nowhere in my post there is an excuse for sickos is there?

i dont believe in any religion or those that hide behind it for any matter for crimes or petty thoughts.


anyone who harms another, child or not should be put before the law and judge of peers and

i was unaware of the vid i just went to link that was posted and it was a story or maybe my work comp blocked it, in any event dont ever assume you know the rest.