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Atheism vs. God-Belief (the final debate).

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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by bb23108
 



This appears to be an admission that you are not independent for your spiritualism because you are drawing on the knowledge of others.


There's a difference between material analysis and emotional stability. Stop trying to be clever, it's not working well for you.




posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Nor for you.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



You can't look at what was presented on page 19 and then say "I can't see it" I must appeal to higher authority because it's either by-design (with intent) or a mere coincidence which just happened to generate life as we know it. You can't not take a position while claiming that you're not being intellectually disingenuous.


Are you going to answer my question or just continue to spout nonsense?


For the atheist, the "coincidence" of eclipse (for starters) MUST be just that and nothing more. In other words it cannot be assigned any intrinsic meaning or significance or purpose or intentionality by any Creative Agency.


This is what I call "extrapolation". You're gonna need a hell of a lot more evidence than that to sound at all credible. It's strange, really - it takes more evidence to not believe in a god than it does to actually believe in one. What gives?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
You can't look at what was presented on page 19 and then say "I can't see it" I must appeal to higher authority because it's either by-design (with intent) or a mere coincidence which just happened to generate life as we know it. You can't not take a position while claiming that you're not being intellectually disingenuous.

For the atheist, the "coincidence" of eclipse (for starters) MUST be just that and nothing more. In other words it cannot be assigned any intrinsic meaning or significance or purpose or intentionality by any Creative Agency.

There's a bias there then or a blindspot that refuses to and cannot see or recognize any evidence to the contrary. But according to the proper definition of "atheism" (as discussed earlier in this thread) this can't be so. In the presence of evidence demonstrating intelligent design, the atheist is then placed in a real predicament you see. At best it's "no comment"..

I would just like to see the argument to the contrary, and in the face of the evidence, that's all.

I made my argument, that this can be nothing other than the result of an infinitely intelligent Creative Agency. I did my part..


Best Regards,

NAM

bump to page 21



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

You're evading, squirming and evading.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Hardly conclusive. I'm glad you're not on the NASA research team.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



You're evading, squirming and evading.


And your arguments are about as solid as jello. So far, I've yet to see any legitimate arguments from you. All you can do is provide YOUR interpretations of YOUR observations of a phenomena that only YOU can see any real significance in. And even when some small significance is found, you act as though it proves your entire premise when it only begins to touch a fraction. Maybe if you didn't ASSUME so much, you would see that I'm not evading, I'm YAWNING because you're like a little kid dressing up as a policeman.

Cute, but hardly meaningful.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
There's a difference between material analysis and emotional stability. Stop trying to be clever, it's not working well for you.
I am not trying to be clever, I was sincerely asking you for clarification of how you can declare yourself to be spiritually independent but then have to rely on material analysis or any kind of knowledge to support you in your independence. It would seem to me that such independence would be free of all dependence on knowledge - unless of course knowledge is what you need for emotional stability?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

So in your opinion based on your own observation, it (moon-earth-sun configuration) must be a coincidence then, right? Just a fluke at the very far end of a random cosmic lottery. This is surely the position you must take as an "atheist".

I put forth a good argument. Do you have anything, anything at all, to counter it?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



So in your opinion based on your own observation, it (moon-earth-sun configuration) must be a coincidence then, right? Just a fluke at the very far end of a random cosmic lottery. This is surely the position you must take as an "atheist".


I don't like the word atheist. It's a very cold term.

I think your conclusions are very elaborate considering the sparing sample of legitimate evidence you have brought forth.


I put forth a good argument. Do you have anything, anything at all, to counter it?


You could always try Google.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity

I put forth a good argument. Do you have anything, anything at all, to counter it?


You could always try Google.

What search terms should I be using, what am I looking for in your opinion? Thanks.


Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I think your conclusions are very elaborate considering the sparing sample of legitimate evidence you have brought forth.

I don't think you've fully grasped the true nature and implications of what was actually presented, or, you're being intellectually disingenuous even deceptively so.

edit on 25-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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NAM, I am still trying to understand your definition of Creative Agency or Creative Design. I can see that if all is arising in Consciousness that there is inherent intelligence in that, and so such appearances as you point out do occur. Just like various symbiotic relationships found in nature - the sum of the parts (the bees, the flowers, the process of pollenation, etc.) all seem to be intelligently designed when looked at as a whole. Well maybe that is just because Consciousness when modified into various forms, simply demonstrates various levels of intelligence and beauty.

But to then jump to the conclusion that there is a designer or even just an intention in doing all of this is a jump I cannot make. Are you making this jump in the hope of reconciling the Creator-God of the Bible with this approach?

edit on 25-3-2013 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by bb23108
 

The planetary relationship and configuration I've pointed to reveals that it's a first/last cause in those creative processes and relationships that you've mentioned and one where, if meaningful and significant offers us as the observer an allegory of the perfectly reflected light. that is if one were to inquire as to it's meaning and significance. This implies superintelligent design in the formation of our solar system but when I refer to Creative Agency I'm not referring to a separative Godhead but one where the manifest creation, including we ourselves are intrinsic to the whole creative process which is not and cannot be an unintentional random coincidence without intelligent design or as a mindless process without intent or purpose.

The Alpha and Omega reference just seems to capture the idea the best with man being intrinsic to the whole process and allegorically, standing right next to the very Godhead by design and by reflection, an allegory in turn which points to your conception of the perfect light of consciousness and intelligence underpinning and giving rise to the manifest creation with infinite (unlimited) intelligence.

Hope that helps.

Best Regards,

NAM

edit on 25-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



What search terms should I be using, what am I looking for in your opinion? Thanks.


Look, if you can't do simple research, then obviously you haven't done you're homework because you don't know how to. Case closed.


I don't think you've fully grasped the true nature and implications of what was actually presented, or, you're being intellectually disingenuous even deceptively so.


And you're using big words to make yourself sound smarter. It isn't working.

Maybe if you organized your thoughts and shown how your research is relevant to ANYTHING, I would be more impressed.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Maybe if you organized your thoughts and shown how your research is relevant to ANYTHING, I would be more impressed.

It's relevant to the creative process that is life itself as we know it, so it's relevant to everything as far as we're concerned.


Originally posted by Overtime
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Thanks for making me wonder about the moons origins, I hadn't considered it for a while but I am very skeptical a bunch of rocks from a planet collision with Earth happened to collect at that exact distance to make all that possible.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Overtime
 

You're most welcome.

It also makes this possible!


Perihelion and Solstice


- by holding the earth in a dynamic equilibrium balancing "wobble" and tilt on it's axis (we need to check the other planets in our solar system to see how their tilt compare to earth) which is perfectly balanced in favor of a living world right across the whole planet (as we enjoy today).

and the whole cycle of life on earth while ensuring that 90%+ of the Earth's water surrounding the whole planet is in liquid form and we know it times the cycles of life all the way to that of the human female's reproductive cycle including the human gestation period (pregnancy).


Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



What search terms should I be using, what am I looking for in your opinion? Thanks.


Look, if you can't do simple research, then obviously you haven't done you're homework because you don't know how to. Case closed.

Utterly disingenuous, that time, because I was simply asking what I'm supposed to be searching for as a counter argument, in your opinion, based on our prior exchange, nothing more nothing less.

Squirming and evading..

edit on 25-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


You haven't shown that it's anything more than coincidence. Laws of physics are never coincidence, granted, but you seem to be implying it isn't just physics...

Maybe something - supernatural?
edit on 25-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Well there we go. At least now you've taken a position so there's a basis for continued debate. At last!

I'll come back to you on this. And yes I'm suggesting that there are aspects to it that are not entirely natural and the result of sheer coincidence.

We have you on record anyway stating that the moon-earth-sun configuration isn't of intelligent design origin but the result of random coincidence and governed by nothing more than the laws of physics and thus of no real significance or meaning, or intended purpose.

I should add here that when I am referring to by-design of the Creative Agency that I'm also referring to infinite intelligence and therefore something capable of generating and/or making use of the laws of physics, from a first/last cause, or in other words that the creative process wasn't blind, in accordance with random coincidence, but intentional, and anticipatory and whose very aim was and is life as we know it.

edit on 25-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



We have you on record anyway stating that the moon-earth-sun configuration isn't of intelligent design origin but the result of random coincidence and governed by nothing more than the laws of physics and thus of no real significance or meaning, or intended purpose.


Just because it's based on the laws of physics, doesn't mean it can't be appreciated. I don't need to have a deity to appreciate the music of the spheres.


I should add here that when I am referring to by-design of the Creative Agency that I'm also referring to infinite intelligence and therefore something capable of generating and/or making use of the laws of physics, from a first/last cause, or in other words that the creative process wasn't blind, in accordance with random coincidence, but intentional, and anticipatory and whose very aim was and is life as we know it.


So what we see now was the ultimate goal of this immense intelligence? You really are naive.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
So what we see now was the ultimate goal of this immense intelligence? You really are naive.

Up to this point yes, obviously, and no I'm not, just extremely inquisitive and scientifically minded.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 



Up to this point yes, obviously, and no I'm not, just extremely inquisitive and scientifically minded.


Because you've provided so much support for your thesis...I've seen more evidence in 9/11 threads. You really should try harder. Right now, all you have is speculation and a few barely related tidbits of research from biased parties. Let's talk Scientific American or Popular Science or some other reputable source of scientific data that has been tried and tested and given the blue ribbon of peer approval from the rest of the established scientific community - which, by the way, doesn't happen to include you.

Anyway, it's time to close up shop. I'll check back in the next couple of days and see how much more extrapolated speculative research you have to throw at me. In the meantime, I'll prepare to not be impressed.
edit on 25-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)





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