Could scientist actually create a blackhole on earth?

I recently learned about a facility that experiments with protons and antiprotons. The term that is used is Trevatron. Apparently its a collision course for protons and antiprotons. Its ran by 500 employees that carry out these experiments. So I'm assuming that most of these 500 employees are actual scientist that have assembled together to test these collisions. I'm not sure yet if this facility was created by the government or not. But it sounds like something they would invest our tax dollars into. Anyway I don't know about anyone else on this website but these kinds of experiments are starting to grow in size. There is the other facility that is located in another country that's shooting protons with lasers and another that is spinning atoms together in some type of machine. I'm sure there are other facilities we know nothing about. But apparently protons and neutrons and also atoms are nothing to play with. These people are toying with them like its all just fun and games. Maybe I'm just being foolish here and a nerd, but the last I heard blackholes are extremely deadly. I mean there would be nothing left of earth not a trace. Blacckholes devour whole galaxies. I mean sure if the world was going to end and we had a choice in how it would end I'd probably vote for blackhole. Since you wouldn't feel it and all. You'd just be to torn into countless pieces instantly. I just wanted to get other peoples opinions on this subject. Even if they didn't create a blackhole, I'm sure that there is something that could be a result of these little harmless experiments.

reply to post by sc1981


I think you are underestimating the size of these experiments, and the level of care put into them, also i take it the machine spinning atoms together you are talking about is possibly CERN and the laser you are talking about was (possibly, correct me if im wrong ATS) some italian scientists....

now from my understanding they are trying to replicate various stages of the big bang, so theoretical particles can be found, however creating things like black holes first isnt as straight forward as just creating or accidentally creating them, even if they could, i think keeping them stable is an issue, certainly has been when attempting to achieve other states.

there is alot of calculation that goes into these experiments, and yes there is a chance they could make mistakes (theoretical physics allows for such things untill method is proven) but for us to truley understand the universe, who\what\why we are, experiments have to take place.

i really dont think there is too much to concern yourself with



Just my thoughts

there is NO WAY to generate a black hole without sufficient mass, (matter). They can not make a black hole with a supercollider.

They are also not "playing" with anything. I would guess they cant get "play time" with billion dollar equipment.

Originally posted by GonzoSinister
reply to post by sc1981

 

i really dont think there is too much to concern yourself with

Really! So what would happen if they are successful and create a black hole? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it KILL US ALL?

That sounds like something that should concern us.

Talk about stuff that should be banned!!!

reply to post by sc1981


Yes, this research is ongoing. Just create a dynamic magnetic bubble (toroid+vortex, less than 20" inches in diameter) with an field strength of about 14 to 20 Tesla moving at over the speed of light with an active containment area of just over 1 angstrom in diamater by about 4 to 7 angstroms high cylinder (you'll want to limit the amount of collectable mass so the experiment doesn't go out of control). You'll need some very specialized electronics that must be custom made to control this device. Couple that to the a few low energy lasers and a proton/neutron injector. What you get is continuous string entanglement that increases in mass according to the speed of particle injection.

Eventually, the mass will increase to a level that could theoretically produce a micro-singularity (a few trillion injections, at 100mhz that would be 20,000 to 50,000 seconds). Micro-singularities are just like their big brothers, they're carnivores. They consume a little slower at first but they speed up quickly. If you don't do this just right, the field will fail at some point and eventually (16.224 hours later) the planet would end up having a Schwarzschild radius of about 9 centimeters and would be spinning very close to the speed of light.

Adiabatic reactions are fun, just don't try this at home as it's a bit dangerous and the cost of the device is between $60k and $250k depending on whether you use Chinese or American made parts.

Just joking, or am I ????

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by tadaman
there is NO WAY to generate a black hole without sufficient mass, (matter). They can not make a black hole with a supercollider.

They are also not "playing" with anything. I would guess they cant get "play time" with billion dollar equipment.

Actually, yes they can. Don't say NO WAY, you obviously have not worked in this area. All you need is a very accurate method of producing and maintaining string entanglement.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by MrBigDave


Yes IF they created a black hole it COULD kill us all,

IF the poisoned every square inch of ocean it would kill us all too, niether relevent as its not going to happen...

on the off chance they did create a blackhole, it would be tiny and last seconds not a super massive cosmic event that you are visualising,

i may be wrong again but do you not need the energy of like super nova-ing suns or universal equivelents to make a galaxy destroying black hole... its not really something we have lying around.

Originally posted by tadaman
there is NO WAY to generate a black hole without sufficient mass, (matter). They can not make a black hole with a supercollider.

They are also not "playing" with anything. I would guess they cant get "play time" with billion dollar equipment.

You sure about that??

I understand the colliders about as much as the op

HOWEVER: They weren't sure if they were going to ignite the atmosphere when they tested the bomb,but they still did it

it's a crazy world/game

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The big bang theory experiments. If that's what they consider them to be I'm they have different terms for different experiments but you get the general ideal. And I'm sure like you are that they take care in what they are doing and have exact calculations that they go by. But they are human and humans make mistakes. If they are off by just a little it could spell disaster for us all. I mean I'm not willing to let a bunch of people that call themselves scientist toy with my life. Cause basically that's what they're doing. One wrong calculation and we're going to find out where it is exactly a black hole leads to. Or maybe how big of a bang they can produce. And I'm not sure that to many Americans are willing to take that risk in the name of science. I mean it would help if they let us in on the exact risk of these experiments. You know if this or that goes wrong what will be the exact outcome. Will it just destroy the machine or will it destroy our whole planet? So really its a shame that like our government everything has to be top secret. I know some of the scientist working on these experiments have came out and made statements to the public about the risks but is it the whole story. I'm not convinced that it is.

There is black holes generating in these systems, but they are so small they vanish very, very quick via hawking radiation. They simply evaporate. The smaller black hole is, the faster it loses mass.

reply to post by cjttatu


well everyone calling these singularities black holes is not exactly being spot on.

They are singularities. ("heavy" areas with concentrated mass...I dont know what wording to even use.) They are NOT black holes. You need almost infinite mass, and energy to make a black hole...(if it even can be made). Considering that a sun can collapse and still not make one says it all.

They are interesting and are dangerous. BUT it is doom porn to say we can create even a "small" black hole, considering that a "small" black hole is many times larger than the earth that we couldnt even host it....

So your telling me that these experiments are already producing black holes? And yet the continue to do these things. And that that is not considered toying around with expensive equipment? Yea seems to me that if they can produce a small black hole they can create a big one by accident.

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by cjttatu

 

well everyone calling these singularities black holes is not exactly being spot on.

They are singularities. ("heavy" areas with concentrated mass...I dont know what wording to even use.) They are NOT black holes. You need almost infinite mass, and energy to make a black hole...(if it even can be made). Considering that a sun can collapse and still not make one says it all.

They are interesting and are dangerous. BUT it is doom porn to say we can create even a "small" black hole, considering that a "small" black hole is many times larger than the earth that we couldnt even host it....

edit on 15-3-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

i didn't say a thing about black holes..i implied that an acceptable risk to a scientist isn't quite what your average joe would consider acceptable

Originally posted by sc1981
....
But apparently protons and neutrons and also atoms are nothing to play with.
....

You do realize that pretty much EVERYTHING is made up of these 3 things? right?

Originally posted by sc1981
These people are toying with them like its all just fun and games. Maybe I'm just being foolish here and a nerd,
....

Do you play games? Computer or otherwise? it doesn't matter which, because IT IS ALL MADE UP OF ATOMS, and all atoms are made up of protons and neutrons,
I agree you're being foolish, but not a nerd, because a nerd would know better.

Originally posted by sc1981
but the last I heard blackholes are extremely deadly
....

yes agree, I could also say, tornadoes, tsunami, falling down really deep holes, are all deadly, what any of this, including your 'blackhole', has to do with protons/anti-proton collisions is anyone's guess.

protons/anti-proton collisions convert said protons to energy, NOT blackholes... Who gave you this idea?

protons/anti-proton collisions convert said protons to energy, NOT blackholes... Who gave you this idea?

edit on 15/3/13 by Kr0nZ because: (no reason given)

OK keep in mind i know nothing

two words in that statement bother me.....collisions and energy

is there 'no' risk in what they're doing??

Ok...

Did you miss all the many threads, that came up before the activation of the LHC project? Im not spoonfeeding anyone tonight, since I am very tired, and in no mood to go over old ground. Suffice to say a) these questions have been covered over and over again, and b) that if our planet was going to have dissappeared up its own fundament as a result of an artificially induced micro singularity, it would have happened when the project leaders of the LHC were pummelling subatomic particles together in an effort to identify the Higgs boson.

That work is nearing its completion, and as of yet, nothing has happened what so ever, in that regard. We havent lost even so much as a litre of air from our atmosphere, not the merest mote of dust from the surface of the Earth. There is actually, very little reason to think that we are in any danger from this project. One does not, after all, construct a multi billion dollar piece of scientific apperatus, which has to be insured for another vast sum of money, that has a significant chance of causing the end of the world.

The LHC, and the many other particle colliders on the planet, represent a huge investment by the planets foremost universities, an investment which was made with the intention of increasing our understanding of the universe. This is not like the Manhattan project, a project which was DESIGNED to result in mass destruction. These projects are designed and run, and funded by, people who ARENT involved in trying to murder vast swathes of civillians. They are also very smart people, folks who know the intestines of the particle world as well as you or I know the contents of a can of cola.

Originally posted by TrueBrit

As begrudging as your post seems, i would like to thank you

But you had to have read the op

Didn't that tell you that maybe some people don't completely understand some scientific threads,
yet still worry about what risks scientists may be taking.Seems reasonable.

reply to post by cjttatu


There are people out there who do not understand the need for the removal of an inflammed appendix. That does not mean that a doctor wouldnt be within his rights to take the thing out if it was about to burst, coating thier organs in toxic filth.

Similarly, just because people havent made the effort to learn a little bit about the way the science behind the LHC actually works, does not mean that thier concerns are remotely valid.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by cjttatu

 

There are people out there who do not understand the need for the removal of an inflammed appendix. That does not mean that a doctor wouldnt be within his rights to take the thing out if it was about to burst, coating thier organs in toxic filth.

Similarly, just because people havent made the effort to learn a little bit about the way the science behind the LHC actually works, does not mean that thier concerns are remotely valid.

Agreed,i wouldn't start a thread when i can just read about it,but i wouldn't start a thread with a youtube video either but people do!!
not everyone's learning curve is the same shape.

Originally posted by sc1981
I recently learned about a facility that experiments with protons and antiprotons. The term that is used is Trevatron. Apparently its a collision course for protons and antiprotons. Its ran by 500 employees that carry out these experiments. So I'm assuming that most of these 500 employees are actual scientist that have assembled together to test these collisions. I'm not sure yet if this facility was created by the government or not. But it sounds like something they would invest our tax dollars into. Anyway I don't know about anyone else on this website but these kinds of experiments are starting to grow in size. There is the other facility that is located in another country that's shooting protons with lasers and another that is spinning atoms together in some type of machine. I'm sure there are other facilities we know nothing about. But apparently protons and neutrons and also atoms are nothing to play with. These people are toying with them like its all just fun and games. Maybe I'm just being foolish here and a nerd, but the last I heard blackholes are extremely deadly. I mean there would be nothing left of earth not a trace. Blacckholes devour whole galaxies. I mean sure if the world was going to end and we had a choice in how it would end I'd probably vote for blackhole. Since you wouldn't feel it and all. You'd just be to torn into countless pieces instantly. I just wanted to get other peoples opinions on this subject. Even if they didn't create a blackhole, I'm sure that there is something that could be a result of these little harmless experiments.

edit on 03/05/2013 by sc1981 because: (no reason given)

Well op...... where to begin....first a slight insult, dont take this the wrong way please, but I have never seen somone know what a blaxk hole would do to you, yet not know about the tevatron at fermilabs in illinois, and also be ignorant of the biggest of all the LHC large hadron collider at CERN in geneva switzerland.

Go ahead and google these key words, fermilabs tevatron LHC cern, it will blow your mind op!!!!

You seem to be plenty smart, but simply ignorant of the materiak, which is perfectly fine, as ignorance is one of the easiest things to cure in the world. It was about 17 years ago for me when I got started on curing mine, I am still jot there yet.......not looking good for the future either sadly.

So black holes. These are not necessarily planet, star or galaxy eaters. It simply describes a quantum singularity. This is somthing that occurs when too much mass occupies too little space. Think of it as fire is simply to much heat occupying too little space in the right environment.

I can turn a single atom into a black hole, or singlarity, as I will describe it from here on out. Well ok not I personally, but it can happen, and they infact do make it happen at cern using the LHC, not entire atoms mind you, but proton streams. They acceoerate them in opposing directions at well over 99% of the speed of light, then switcy them onto the same track for a head on collision. They hit each other with 14 terraelectron volts of energy, which is a tramendous amount when one thinks about the size of a proton, in more usable terms, they hit eachother with the same force a nimitz class super carrier going 30 mph and hitting dry land. OUCH!!!

This is enough, to crack open the particles and release their building blocks. Somtimes a particle will be crushed so far it will have to much mass for the amount of space it occupies, it will have an infinite mass gradient at 1 planck length, a planck length is the smallest ever theorised explainable and quantifiable size. Suffice to say it is a point, a size so small it doesnt exist, yet so large it is quantifiable, meaning it is so small it doesnt exist, but it is too large to say it doesnt.

These microscopic blackholes, dont have very much mass, the still only have the weight of the starting particle, itnis just occupying infinitely less soace than before.

They usually simply evaporate from hawkings radiation in an actual instant, not truly even existing as far a human perception goes, as billions could come and go in a single second. They are harmless to the earth and its matter, dont fear op, they pose little threat. I say little intentionally, as there is a very small chance somthing could go badly, it is somthing 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999 to 1, actually I believe the number is way larger, but I got tired of typing 9s and 's. It is equivalent to a fully loaded and functional bugati veron materializing out of the quantum foam in your drive way right after you wished for with a custom liscense llate and the keys in the ignition.

In short it will likely never happen.

Hope this helped, feel free to ask any more questions you have, or stop by the science forums, they are so sweet, they have abut everything you could imagine covered.

Snf