How to avoid a Sino-Japanese war / WWIII – force Japan to apologise

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posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I totally agree with your point about the a bombs and their place in history.

Just imagine how easiky a future generation could rationalize using one, if one of humanities darkest deeds, in one of it darkest hours was not set out for all to see it its monsterous purpose.

My lord the things those bombs did, and they are firecrackers by todays nuclear weapons measure...... insanity.

I know of this , but I dont feel a part of it, as I was not even close to thought of, hell ky folks werent even born for 10 more years, my grandparents were still kids.

But maybe the reason they dont feel the same towards us as the Chinese do towaeds the Japanese, is as you pointed out, we havent hidden it, or its terrible cost, of a lesson so horrible it need only be made the one time before it sets in.

I honestly dont think will contribute any further in this thread, as it seems to be heading downhill, and soon will start all the finger point nake calling and butt hurt that goes along with it all.

Suffice to say, imho the only answer that will leave everyone partly appeased, yet still unhappy is the honest one, where all sides just lay it all out, and say yes its true, it was a tragedy beyond reason, and we as a species move forward, into the future, and stop trying to find a reason to hate or cause malice to be felt by others.

In short we must all except the past, done by our own, and done to them by others, so that the next generations will not follow suit. No apology is needed, as both the offended, and the offender are probably long gone. The lesson though should not be lost.




posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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In truth, the intention of OP is merely to stir up anger or debate over the rhetoric of angry words spewed from the south china sea spat between aggressive China and its long peaceful but concerned asian neighbours.

Japan's long dead WW2 atrocities are but only tools to stoke up anger and hate by the CCP govt of China to win nationalistic support in its greedy conquest for the wealth of the South China Sea for itself alone selfishly - a long declared free international maritime avenue for world trade, and whatever lays underneath, belongs to all who are willing to share it, just as like in all other international seas around our world.

The Nanking atrocity was most certainly horrific and nothing can whitewash it. And because of it, the CCP govt had time and time again used it as a propaganda tool.

Thing is - had anyone sought to think deeper - why did it happened at all, blaming the effect rather than the cause?

To find the answer, one will have to go back in time to the last days of the Qing dynasty. They were decadent and easily beaten by western powers, whom were only equal fellow humans. They had refused progress and evolution, kept the masses stupid and pliant, and the han chinese masses accepted it - for hundreds of years, with no effective organisation to overthrow it.

The masses have only themselves to be blamed for evolved humans carving up the chinese empire. Freedom cannot be bestowed upon by others, but only by their own blood and sacrificed. The chinese failed and thus ended up enslaved and bullied.

It was only Dr Sun Yat Shing, who had the courage and organisational ability to motivate the grassroots and sought for western help including modern Japan to end the Qing dynasty.

Unfortunately, when the Qing tyrants fled, the chinese masses were split into 2 - Dictator Chiang and commie Mao. The masses were largely uneducated and know not democracy and its responsibilities. Thus Chiang took the easy way out - corruption - by giving wealth and priviledges to his supporters to lead the masses.

Commie Mao knew the masses were uneducated too. But he took a more bloodthirsty and pragmatic approach - demagogue emotional appeal on the disparity between the rich and poor - to win power over the foolish masses, for he knew the rich will be small but the masses large and a no brainer result when push becomes shove.

And as they both fight each other for supremacy, they left much of the masses unprotected in every way. Nothing was done to elevate the sufferings of the poor - no education, no economy, no security.

Mititary Japan simply walked in and took over, with little fight by those 2 contenders whom even at such national perilous times, placed greater priority killing each other than uniting to fight the japanese military, even right till the end of the war., an end that fortunately, the free world did most of the job for them while they keep their own troops safe and intact to evict the other when the japanese military left at the end of the war.

As such, atrocities happened to the undefended chinese masses, which was a responsiblity of its national leaders. It was they who failed them, and rightfully, apologize.

The japanese had done enough of paying back in words, actions, cash and blood. The war had ended long ago. Let Nanking and rest of the China provinces rest peacefully, instead of being played up for greed filled agendas each time the CCP govt look towards coveteously the South China Sea.
edit on 15-3-2013 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


In truth, the intention of OP is merely to stir up anger or debate over the rhetoric of angry words spewed from the south china sea spat between aggressive China and its long peaceful but concerned asian neighbours.

I think Invers probably has the right idea here in that hitting the Agree to Disagree button is the best solution. Some things we seem to agree on, at least to some extent. Some sentiments and general outlooks, we never will. So, indeed... after having pretty well said all I think there was to say in expressing opinions? At least from my side...I'll just quietly step back unless new traffic comes up on the thread.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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The problem with China and the reason the entire Pacific region is hostile and paranoid about it rise in power is the fact that is has a history of wars with most of its neighbors. That and the invasion and annexing of Tibet. China has a lot more problems than just Japan.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Japan had already paid dearly for its war crimes with its cities nuked and 6 years of enslavement for war repriations after WW2.

It's not the point. They still, to this day, refuse to acknowledge many of the abject atrocities they committed at the time. Many who were responsible - including their revered Hirohito - were given a pass by the West largely because of the creeping threat of communism and the need for allies at the time.

If Japan had indeed already apologised satisfactorily in Chinese eyes - which is all really counts, here - then, ipso facto, there would be no jack-off islands dispute now that could very easily erupt into full blown war. The Chinese are inculcated in the history of what went on with the Japanese. It may seem like bygones to the West, but any feedback from actual Chinese people will tell a very different story.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
The apologizing game will be endless on ALL sides if we mankind of this new generation continue to cling on past atrocities, which can rationally be argued back to the days WHEN man was CREATED.

You're not taking into account Asian culture. You're looking at this through the prism of a Western view of not holding grudges. This philosophy doesn't apply the same way to these peoples.


Originally posted by inverslyproportional
Op, your premise is effed up. This is the same as saying all white people today must take all their sacings and give it to the blacks, as repayment for their actions.

I think you're perspective on reality is a "effed up", bub. The Africans aren't going to invade ' the White world' any time soon and, if anything, White involvement helps that region of the world on aggregate. And, again, the Asian cultural view of being wronged needs to be taken into account here. Applying a Western equation does not suffice here.


Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The Japanese PEOPLE....have no guilt or reason to feel bad for what happened decades ago. In many cases, they are literally ignorant by lack of education of the details of what their own Imperial Army did across Asia. I think the Japanese PEOPLE are among the kindest, gentlest and most open people in the world ...post war.

This^.

Whereas in European atrocities, we're all well apprised of who is / was the 'bad guy' and what went on (at least through history accounted by the victor), most Japanese have no idea of the heinous shít that was enacted by their people. Ignorance is the same as apathy in Chinese eyes.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
In truth, the intention of OP is merely to stir up anger or debate over the rhetoric of angry words spewed from the south china sea spat between aggressive China and its long peaceful but concerned asian neighbours.

This is the mistaken view that will lead the world into another World War.

You really think China care enough about that piddle 'n crap archipelago when they have ensconced themselves all over the world, including Africa, and are sypathetic friends with pretty much everyone the U.S. is enemies with? Come one, plebes. Get schooled, FFS.



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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the actual generation is not guilty of the past, carrying a painful past on your back, apologizing for a past you're not responsible with, is, in fact, slowing you down on your way to peace.

Wars are alway barbaric, so, apologizing for things you're not responsible, is only adding fuel to the fire, for future generations.



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by CristobalColonic
 


SnF for posting things that aren't supposed to be seen, by us anyway.

How convenient that countries like The Philippines and Vietnam so easily forgot their own history and siding with Japan. How they going to face their ancestors ? I don't think that South Korea going to support Japan though they are now in their camp even if war break out between China and Japan.


WW3 or not, the Chinese going to get the Japanese one way or the other. There are certain things that you neither forgive or forget and for the Chinese, this is it, that one itch that they can't get to scratch yet.

It is Japanese rotten karma to live under the discretion of the Chinese for eternity.

How much longer can the USA protects Japan ?



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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True but I don't think America or other major global players would want to stop a war between the two. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they would welcome one. One of the reasons America did so well economically after WW2 was the destruction of their competitor’s industrial capacity during the war. It would be one sure way to force companies to move factories back to the US or at least to nations that are not communist and are a lesser threat to America in the long term like those in South America, Africa, East Europe or India. Weapons companies would also experience massive windfall profits and if there is one thing the US still builds better than anyone else it's weapons. It would also be good for those who have global depopulation as an agenda as China is the most populated nation in the world accounting for about 19% of global population. I could see a lot of powerful groups actually wanting this war.
edit on 16-3-2013 by Strakha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by CristobalColonic
 


Personally I abhorred your use of 'FFS' as it is vulgar in a discussion and hope that you may refrain from such use, or face up to consequences. It does not prove you have brains, except to show others how low you are that you need to resort to such means to pump up the lack of education in your life.

Your post's point is focussed supposed 'ethnic' differences between the east and the west, china and japan, and your presumption is absolutely wrong.

We may have many differences and even cultural religious differences, but humans are all the same with only same common goals in mind to live and love in peace. We are not fools to desire to live in hate and wars, no matter where we hail from. Only the insane, the selfish and the ignorant such as you, would want us all to kill one another

The common chinese and the japanese had LONG buried the hatchet of war atrocities. Tourism, trade and economics had been shared between both countries successfully for 3 decades and even Deng Xiao Peng - the Reformer of modern era China, had shook hands with Japan and welcome investments on both sides to live in an era of peace of prosperity.

Right now, the fracas is nothing more than the hardline elements within the CCP Communist Govt seeking to manipulate the masses on both sides to stir up tensions, for control of the party and the well endowed resource rich South China Sea.

Asian nations had long buried the hatchet with Japan over its wartime atrocities, as Japan's peaceful rise after the war had benefitted all asians through its tech, investments, work ethics and much more. Japan had not seek even one inch of territory more after the war.

However, the only one doing it right now in Asia is the CCP govt of China, with its threats and bellicose and insane statements as being the owner of the South China Sea and other states such as Philippines, Vietnam, etc should stop defending their sovereignity and just lay down like a carpet for China to walk over.

If it had not been for western intervention time and time again - during WW2 and the Korean War, along with western technological advancements in weapons and space which the CCP govt stole and copied shamelessly, the CCP govt would have been booted out long ago, and freedom restored to the Chinese People to elect their own leaders, the way the western colonial powers had returned almost its holdings to their own People to rule.

But the CCP govt rules today. All the west asked now is that it respects the rule of law and international standards, of which had allowed the govt to stay in place despite its poor records, sharing our world to maintain fair trade and prosperity for all, and drop its bullying stances to its neighbours.

The quest for 'an apology' will not serve anything, more so after what Japan had long suffered and paid in blood and cash to the world. It cannot bring back the dead, and will NOT satisfy those who insist on an 'apology' because apology is not what it wants. Death of all the japanese People and absorbing Japan into China is what it seeks for, the only real apology that will satisfy these greedy and insane group.

Let us mankind not support that greedy and insane group, but stop them whenever we can, or only more precious human lives will be lost yet again....



posted on Mar, 16 2013 @ 12:25 PM
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I think the historical record detailing the barbarism and crimes of the Japanese is backed by various apologies made in the decades following WW2.

The Chinese authorities are playing a cynical political game by keeping issues like this alive. This is nothing more than crass nationalism.

If the Chinese Communist Party leaders were really interested in putting right the wrongs of the past they should start by apologising to their own population for the millions who have perished and suffered under their repression. Chairman Mao’s policies in the 50s and 60s may have resulted in death of as many as 40 million Chinese, a fact nicely censored in China where it is taught Mao was a jolly nice man who would not hurt a fly. Plus, let’s not forget Tibet or their bloody involvement in Korea. Need I go on?

The Chinese are hypocrites.

Regards





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