How to avoid a Sino-Japanese war / WWIII – force Japan to apologise, page 1

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Topic started on 15-3-2013 @ 10:58 AM by CristobalColonic

For this:

YouTube Link

If the U.S. really do not want to get dragged into a war with China, which may lead to a third World War, they should exert their influence on Japan and force them to acknowledge the barbarism committed by them towards the Chinese in WWII.

Having spoken to Chinese ex-pats, I can tell you that the Chinese have not forgotten this heinous period between the two nations, and if a war were to break out between these countries, there may well be no way of arresting it until on party is completely expunged.

The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Japanese in the WWII when it came to abject atrocity. It's about time the world took them to task on their shameful crimes against humanity. WWII encompassed THE WORLD, not just the U.S. and Europe.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:05 AM by DarthMuerte

They already did, about 40 years ago:

Link

1970s September 29, 1972: Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka. "The Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious damage that Japan caused in the past to the Chinese people through war, and deeply reproaches itself. Further, the Japanese side reaffirms its position that it intends to realize the normalization of relations between the two countries from the stand of fully understanding 'the three principles for the restoration of relations' put forward by the Government of the People's Republic of China. The Chinese side expresses its welcome for this" (Joint Communique of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China).[

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:08 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by CristobalColonic

I tend to agree. There is a great mountain of suppressed rage and nationalistic fury over what Japan did to rape China. I think China would be over it by now if Japan weren't still, to this day, having issues with even admitting some of it happened at all. Teaching the true evens of history in the school books would be unthinkable, apparently.

Indeed... China will be fighting with the rage of a war left with far too much for open injury to be denied once it all starts.

I think you're right. Our best play here would not be to dump on China when..honestly..we're once again taking the wrong side here just because it's our buddy. Once upon a time...being correct was just as important as being right, wasn't it?

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:11 AM by cavtrooper7

There is hostility against japan wherever they occupied in the east.Words are wasted acts are what is believed.Some will never forgive them. Just ask a South Korean.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:16 AM by SeekerofTruth101

Japan had already paid dearly for its war crimes with its cities nuked and 6 years of enslavement for war repriations after WW2.

How long more must the misled people be forced to continually apologizing and paying???

After the war, Japan had been a great and peaceful contributor to mankind in social and economics of our world. Their work ethics are admired and adopted, they support our free world's initiatives, and their innovations even surpassed America and the rest of the world.

Yet they remained humble, and at times seemed racists, but they are only a homogenous people and very seldom mixes with the world, more so after what its forefathers had done. Other than that, enough is enough with the apologizing BS.

It is high time Japan stand tall amongst equal mankind. They followed the rule of international law, had not sought for any conquest and will be supported by the rest of the free world whom only seeks to live in peace.

Wish I can say the same for China, but unfortunately, the realities bite. The CCP govt, whom had Mao as its leaders, had slaughtered millions of its citizens during its disastrous and stupid economic social cultural revolutions. No apologies by them to the dead victims or those whom had fled to other nations. Heck! even some of those murderers are ruling China today.

And they are still not ashamed, and had the gall to claim the entire South China Sea as their terrritory. They are insane.

But it is hope that with the current new leader, may he drop the idea of further conquest, start ending corruption but take social care of its own people, and adhere to the rule of international law and behaviour, so that we mankind sharing this planet can live in peace.

And that goes for all anti-japan folks too. Let's end the hatred for one another and leave the baggages of the past behind so that we may all progress and evolve.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:17 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by cavtrooper7

You have to admit... The wanton slaughter of over 200,000 civilians was a bit over the top. (Some estimates place it at 300,000) Men, women and children..and not by bomb or warhead. Personally. This was done with sword and bullet and rifle stock. International embassy staffs tried making a safe zone to save some...and they did save some lives, but witnesses the nightmare of carnage around them. The killing got so severe and out of hand that the Germany Ambassador to China wired back to ask Adolph Hitler himself to do something with the Japanese Emperor to bring an end to the killing.

This all happened in Nanking, China and covered a 6 week period starting in mid December of 1937. It's an incident there are reams of documentary evidence for, from a number of nations who had representatives in the city when it fell. It's an incident the Japanese, to my knowledge and last I heard, were still not fully coming clean on accepting the responsibility for.

I know from speaking with Chinese, it's one of the primary atrocities their blood still boils over...all these years later.

edit on 15-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:34 AM by SeekerofTruth101

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

The apologizing game will be endless on ALL sides if we mankind of this new generation continue to cling on past atrocities, which can rationally be argued back to the days WHEN man was CREATED.

Japan atrocities was real during the war. But they weren't the only ones whom were barbaric. War makes all mankind revert back to the jungles where barbaric laws rule.

President Chiang Kai Shek was the acknowledged representative of the China landmass. Along with the allies, he agreed to the war being brought to the Japan mainland.

Should the hundred thousands if not million victims and dead of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki horrendous attack DEMAND for an apology as well from the allies for that vicious and utterly horrifying mass slaughter of unprecedented scale?

No.

War happened. Every nation had paid its price. Let the past rest, or the sacrifices of our forefathers caught up in WW2 would have been in vain. They fought and died, so that we this generation may live in peace, never to go to war again.

My hope is only that the war not be whitewashed by ANY side, but be honest, teach and tell it as it is, not that we seek for vengence, but only that the next generation avoid those mistakes our leaders made.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:38 AM by MystikMushroom

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

I take it you're Japanese?

You mentioned contributions Japan has made to the world. Lets see...

Cars? Nope.
TV? Nope.
Radio? Nope.
Electricity? Nope.
Internet? Nope.

They do have awesome steel though.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:44 AM by inverslyproportional

reply to post by CristobalColonic

Op, your premise is effed up. This is the same as saying all white people today must take all their sacings and give it to the blacks, as repayment for their actions.

The japenes today did not do any of this, sure there are probably a few super old folks that served in the japenese military, but only these and nobody eose should apologize, as they are not responsible.

Hey I know, your granparents owed money to somebody back in the day, now you must repay that with compoinded interest. This makes exactly as much sense.

I know maybe I should be able to force the british to pay me millions of dollars for the treatment of my ancestors at their hands, and then the US people can also pay me for their treatment after they came here.

But then, we would all just be suing everyone, and demanding apologies from everyone, since if we go back in time far enough, we have all been responsible for what men did to other men thousands of years ago.

If it didnt happen to you personally, than you have no dog in the fight, only your ancestors would, and they are long gone, and thus need nothing from the likes of the living.

Please stop spreasing this crap, it is only helping to justify the inexcusable actions of people towards others, that have never even been wronged by them.

I know, lets also make all women apologise to all men for Eve talking Adam into eating that apple. I mean where woukd this idiocy end once we begin it?

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:48 AM by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I take it you're Japanese?

:

No. I am not a japanese just because I speak up for truth and reality. The insignificant nobody me am only a fellow human in the community of mankind.

PS: They didn't invent the tape recorder and eight track, but I sure did enjoy what they innovatively did with them and came up with the sony walkmans though. amongst many other social and economic innovations.

Goes to show that each human is valuable and contributor for our peaceful progress and evolution, if given the chance and opportunities to change their ways.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 11:52 AM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

The apologizing game will be endless on ALL sides if we mankind of this new generation continue to cling on past atrocities, which can rationally be argued back to the days WHEN man was CREATED.

Japan atrocities was real during the war. But they weren't the only ones whom were barbaric. War makes all mankind revert back to the jungles where barbaric laws rule.

We can't agree on everything and I disagree here. This is the last place in the world relativism belongs for behavior. I don't care if Japan endured 50 years of cruel, brutal occupation by devils on motorbikes. I don't care that we ended the war by obliterating two of their cities before their emperor would finally quit. None of that makes ANY difference to what the Chinese have for reasons to hold a VERY deep grudge.

Nothing that happened after Nanking changes the rape of that city and over 200,000 ...think of that number... civilians. Tokyo papers covered one specific event that was carried as a sports contest with scores and everything. It was a contest between two Imperial Japanese Officers for who could cleanly cut through the most living people with a single smooth stroke of the sword. It wasn't lined up..just one at a time. They were alive though and those swords back then? Well...they really were keeping score for single swings to cut from side to side and literally sever the torso.

This was the rape of Nanking. That is what CAN NEVER EVER be excused. Nothing Japan endured since or during the war changes a thing. Until they own up to that unthinkable slaughter, China will have a beef the size of a prize bull. They have good reason, too.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 12:00 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by inverslyproportional

Just a quick note to something you said here...and I really want to add this, given the strength of feeling I have for this topic.

The Japanese PEOPLE....have no guilt or reason to feel bad for what happened decades ago. In many cases, they are literally ignorant by lack of education of the details of what their own Imperial Army did across Asia. I think the Japanese PEOPLE are among the kindest, gentlest and most open people in the world ...post war.

The Japanese GOVERNMENT, on the other hand, is who has led to their own people, in some ways, being ignorant of why other nations hate them in the first place. You'd think for that reason alone, it would be important to educate on a fair level.

I think the issue and the problem isn't grudges over the fact it happened....it's the fact the Japanese leadership is no more open to admitting it today than they were decades ago to detailed accountability they were forced to in a tribunal court.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 12:02 PM by SeekerofTruth101

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I understand you animosity.

But what would have change with an apology?

Can the atrocities of war done by the military on ALL sides be reversed? None.

What has happened, happened. We can no longer change the past, but we this generation can still change the future.

It need not be one with grudges forever held, as NO apology can reverse anything, espacially after what the japanese had paid in cash and blood.

It can be one whereby we seek to comprehend those atrocities, learn from them and never make those mistakes again.

Still, it is one's choice to live in hatred and be stagnant or worse, seek for irrational vengence, or to live in a brighter future of accepting our past, learning from it to progress and evolve. And that's a piece of better beef bigger than a prized bull, for it can feed future generations.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 12:37 PM by inverslyproportional

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

OIC, your saying their government denies this, and intentionally hides it from their people. I was gonna comment on your comment but figured I would wait for further elaboration, before assuming your intent.

I agree, this should be all out in the open, and indeed shoukd not be hidden from anyones view, as it is fact, and the only way to learn from mistakes in the past, is to also learn about the past, and what led us to where we are.

I do not feel any shoukd apologise for the actions of others, but those still around who took part should apologise, and those who were not involved should know the truth of the matter.

By hiding this they are causing the tension and anger of those who do remeber. I think germany took the right track after the war, everyone in germany knows full well what their ancestors did, and this is more than enough for me. As once you allow the truth to be known, it is a clear example of you trying to learn from your mistakes, so they woukd never happen again.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 12:46 PM by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I understand you animosity.

But what would have change with an apology?

Can the atrocities of war done by the military on ALL sides be reversed? None.

What has happened, happened. We can no longer change the past, but we this generation can still change the future.

It need not be one with grudges forever held, as NO apology can reverse anything, espacially after what the japanese had paid in cash and blood.

It can be one whereby we seek to comprehend those atrocities, learn from them and never make those mistakes again.

Still, it is one's choice to live in hatred and be stagnant or worse, seek for irrational vengence, or to live in a brighter future of accepting our past, learning from it to progress and evolve. And that's a piece of better beef bigger than a prized bull, for it can feed future generations.

I think you and I have the same feelings on this subject, I dont see any value in forcing people who had nothing to do with what happened before they were even born, to pay some kind of price to make up for the wrongs they have nothing to do with.

It only makes them feel anger that they are being punished for somthi g they didnt do, which will oy bring another cycle of hate anger and wrath.

Why not let a dead horse lay, why keep beating it, especially when it was long dead before you ever found out about it. And it was not even your horse, but one that belonged to someone who was dead before you ever met them.

This is no sensible, it only serves to continue negative feelings etc. All peoples have skeletons in their ancestors closets, this doesnt make them responsible somehow, it just gives an easy crutch to use to continue the hate caused by somthing that never even effected the person who wishes to hate others for a wrong they never suffered.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 01:23 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by inverslyproportional

I feel like I'm quickly getting out of my place to talk here, if I'm not already beyond it. That is simply said because my base of knowledge at this point is several years old, at least, for the state of public education regarding World War II in Japan. For all I know, they have started to teach something of the darker side of their own participation in the years since I last heard that run down in detail.

You're right though, my only point ..and it would vanish if Japan addressed it, is that the fact much of this happened seems to be outright denied or..at best, played down to irrelevance.

To look at it another way, how would Japan feel...or how SHOULD they feel if we had, in fact, dramatically altered the history of Fat Man and Little Boy for the opening of Atomic weapons in war? We could simply deny it had been what it was ...or teach our children that just a few thousand Japanese died ..or even a mere few hundred. Whatever the falsehood...You'd agree Japan would have reason to be Irate, even this long after....wouldn't you?

Assuming these false statements were still being taught today, I mean. They'd have some basis for being pissed I'd think.

To my understanding, that is the heart of why China is pissed in an active way...as opposed to just simmering while they get over history. It's that history is still being denied or downplayed on something they consider to have been criminal beyond words....

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 01:27 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

I understand you animosity.

But what would have change with an apology?

Fair point and in something like American Black Slavery or Native American history it's a defining point. Nothing IS gained by revisiting the past as we've lived up and owned up to it...to a fault at times..and continue to in every reasonable way.

In the China/Japan relation? I think an apology would bring the start of reconciliation between nations over dark periods both need to just admit happened..admit the truth behind to themselves and each other...and then leave that last open chapter of the war back in history where it does belong.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 01:37 PM by Foundryman

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

The apologizing game will be endless on ALL sides if we mankind of this new generation continue to cling on past atrocities, which can rationally be argued back to the days WHEN man was CREATED.

Japan atrocities was real during the war. But they weren't the only ones whom were barbaric. War makes all mankind revert back to the jungles where barbaric laws rule.

We can't agree on everything and I disagree here. This is the last place in the world relativism belongs for behavior. I don't care if Japan endured 50 years of cruel, brutal occupation by devils on motorbikes. I don't care that we ended the war by obliterating two of their cities before their emperor would finally quit. None of that makes ANY difference to what the Chinese have for reasons to hold a VERY deep grudge.

Nothing that happened after Nanking changes the rape of that city and over 200,000 ...think of that number... civilians. Tokyo papers covered one specific event that was carried as a sports contest with scores and everything. It was a contest between two Imperial Japanese Officers for who could cleanly cut through the most living people with a single smooth stroke of the sword. It wasn't lined up..just one at a time. They were alive though and those swords back then? Well...they really were keeping score for single swings to cut from side to side and literally sever the torso.

This was the rape of Nanking. That is what CAN NEVER EVER be excused. Nothing Japan endured since or during the war changes a thing. Until they own up to that unthinkable slaughter, China will have a beef the size of a prize bull. They have good reason, too.

Bwahahaha so their children's children's, children's, children's, children, have to keep paying forever and ever?
You know what? You better apologize to me. One of your ancestor's did one of my ancestor's wrong and this CAN NEVER EVER be excused. You pay now.

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 01:44 PM by namehere

Really? The way i see it is that if such a war started over what Japanese schools teach, then China is rather petty and only making excuses for their planned future aggression.

edit on 15-3-2013 by namehere because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-3-2013 @ 01:54 PM by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by Foundryman

This is one of those moments in life...where reading to the end of the thread would likely have been very helpful.

Just a thought on that... Ouch.

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