If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed;
If you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly;
You may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival.
There may even be a worse case.
You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

Sir Winston Churchill

That says it all. Learn from history, otherwise you continue to make the same mistakes.

P

The reason there won't be a civil war is the same reason I'm not putting solar panels on my roof. Too much up front cost for very little benefit. Crappy metaphor but it makes sense to me. Sure in 20 years you will be better off but in the immediate future your quality of life will be terrible.

A civil war would turn this country into a hell hole. If you survive you're gonna wish you were dead because every single moment of your new life you'll be thinking of how good "it use to be". Sure, this country is going in the wrong direction but a civil war is not the answer.

Originally posted by litterbaux
The reason there won't be a civil war is the same reason I'm not putting solar panels on my roof. Too much up front cost for very little benefit. Crappy metaphor but it makes sense to me. Sure in 20 years you will be better off but in the immediate future your quality of life will be terrible.

A civil war would turn this country into a hell hole. If you survive you're gonna wish you were dead because every single moment of your new life you'll be thinking of how good "it use to be". Sure, this country is going in the wrong direction but a civil war is not the answer.

I disagree. You have not considered what the military would do. It does not matter what the Generals order, it matters what the line officers will do. You would see the Military backing the citizens as unit after unit 'defected' as their oaths demand they do.

It would be over quite quickly IMHO.

P

Well if you don't understand this mentality, you obviously have no grasp of the ideals this country was founded on. How hard is it to grasp that the government has bounds, and that the government receives its power through the consent of the governed? If the government does not abide by the law they are tasked with upholding, it is not only our right, but OUR DUTY as Americans to rise up against that tyranny. This is why the 2nd amendment was included in the Constitution. This is all US history 101, so I do not see what is so difficult to grasp.

It is people like you who will ruin this country in the long run. Do you think the government cares whether the people are complaining about things like the killing of American citizens at the whim of the president? No. And this is highly illegal and unConstitutional, a gross overstepping of power. And this is not the only case of this happening in the US recently, not to mention just this past decade or so.

So if protesting the government, and asking them nicely to quit their illegal activities does not work, the only option left, and the one our Founding Fathers took back in the 18th century, is to rise up against tyranny and oppression. So you should either educate yourself on the ideals of the United States of America, and then stand up for what is right, or stop complaining about these ideals. They were not invented by me or any of us. They were handed down to us by extemely brave men, men who risked everything to give you what you have today.

You have the right to speak your mind because of these same men and these same ideals, yet you fail to see that. So when you are criticizing us for our intolerance of injustice, you are criticizing those who founded this country as well. Those who bled, sacrificed, and died by the thousands to give YOU and all of us freedom. And if the government wishes to overstep its bounds, as was the case prior to 1776, it MUST answer for those injustices. They have power because of the people, and they must work within the framework of a very good system, a system of checks and balances.

The president and congress are becoming more totalitarian every year, with all the special interest groups, etc, and you have people like Bush and Obama who are not operating on the principals of democracy. And they expect people to sit back and do nothing? YOU expect us to sit back and do nothing? This is serious business. And yes, it could work, as it has worked in the past. Not just in the US either. And to speak more about the 2nd amendment, this is why our Founding Fathers implied that the average citizen was to own the same firepower as the military, for just such an occasion as the one the government is forcing us to approach.

They wish to call people who stand for the Constitution traitors and terrorists, yet this is nothing more than propaganda aimed at soft-minded people like you. It is there in black and white in the Declaration of Independece and the US Constitution, so you cannot come back and say I am wrong. I doubt that those who need to read this post will actually read it, because they do not want to realize they are wrong. They want to keep living in their fantasy country whether everything is peachy. Well here is a newsflash Walter Cronkite...Thing aren't. Zoolander reference.

Personally I would not want to live in servitude. I would rather fight for freedom and die than live as a slave. I guess you don't care. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Metallicus
Personally I would not want to live in servitude. I would rather fight for freedom and die than live as a slave. I guess you don't care. Good luck with that.

I hear that...

Though you might ask yourself... who among us does not live in servitude to their government?

Perhaps only the richest of the countries population...

Aside from them all of us are debt slaves... And my country is included in that...

The question is... can it be fixed without violence?

To say someone has no idea of the ideals that your country was founded on... is to blow hot air into the wind. It's meaningless in todays world, to compare how the USA was founded and what it is standing in it's place, today.

All stars and stripes, glory and honour. But no macdonalds or burger king? Wait, this will not do.

If the men and women of the 1700s were to step foot into the USA today, they would be left bewildered and confused as to what sort of nightmare world it has become.

Any group takes up arms against a perceived government oppression, and they'll be swiftly silenced. You know this. No way will there be a civil war. More like a herding of the cattle into their slaughter pens.

You think you're not slaves now? Time and a slow hand has removed your freedoms. Leaving you with areas that you don't think about so never equate the loss of said freedom with actual loss.

Your value worth is all you really are. Every single ID, name, number, category or reference that links to you, does so for monetary purposes only.

There is no such thing as a well organised militia in the USA. any civil war will simply be a show of how far you've been corralled into slavery without even knowing it.

Wait... wait... wait...

Are you saying there are Canadians getting ready for a civil war?