NDEs, Afterlife - Amazing Stories

Originally posted by arpgme
Nope I am not "100%" wrong.

You are just looking at whatever experiences confirm your BELIEF and IGNORING all that doesn't.
Most Religious do this and then they actually BELIEVE that their "Belief" is proven when they just chose to ignore the other experiences which does not fit with what they believe...

So if it's so wrong to assume, why are you assuming that I assumed?

You are absolutely correct about one thing though...

Most Religion IS a lie.

Those LIES are the reason that most people can't handle the truth.

All these NDE's PROVE that religion is lying to us.

FYI: Religion and reality have NOTHING in common.

Isn't it funny how whenever someone mention's God, it's always assumptions and beliefs.

But when it's about the religion of scientific fundamentalism, THEN it's facts.

reply to post by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Murgatroid
So if it's so wrong to assume, why are you assuming that I assumed?

No where in that response to you was I talking about the morality of assumptions/beliefs. I am simply pointing out how people are selective about information and are willing to leave out information in order to "prove" their beliefs/assumptions.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
All these NDE's PROVE that religion is lying to us.

You were just saying that they prove Christianity (biblically), now you are saying otherwise...

The only thing NDE'S Prove is that it is a PERSONAL experience. Some people see Buddha in heaven, some in hell. Some people see Muhammad in heaven, some in hell. Some people see Jesus Christ who helps them get to heaven , some do not and they still get to heaven.... It is a PERSONAL experience for each...

SOME - not all - ARE biblical. SOME - not all - ARE NOT.

If it 100% proves the biblical account then ALL should be biblical NDE'S not some...

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Isn't it funny how whenever someone mention's God, it's always assumptions and beliefs.

But when it's about the religion of scientific fundamentalism, THEN it's facts.

assumptions are assumptions whether they are scientific or not. If someone wants to see an unproven "assumption" as a "fact" then that is their delusions - whether they are a "scientist" or "religious"...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

Originally posted by Murgatroid
It's known as the "Lazarus Phenomenon".

TPTB hate this and do everything they can to ridicule and lie about it because it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is God's Word.

No it doesn't. Some NDE's have absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING biblical, and sometimes even the ones that do claim to see Jesus - isn't exactly "biblical". A Buddhist can have a near death experience and see Buddha in heaven. A Jew can see a Jewish heaven. A Muslim can see Muhammad in heaven.

All of these near death experiences seem to be PERSONAL and most of them (not all) reflect their own BELIEFS.

The only thing NDEs prove is that consciousness still exists after death but it does NOT prove anything BIBLICAL since not all of them are...

edit on 15-3-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

I think it was some other book where I came across an interesting theory.

Yes, you are correct that while many (if not all!) NDEs share common factors, it is also that a number of NDEs reflect the own, spiritual/religious beliefs. This is something which entirely puzzles me.

One example is that INDIANS report NDEs almost always with some guy sitting over a book and then finding out the person is in heaven 'by mistake', sending them back. Something which isnt seen in Western cultures.

And then of course there are the accounts where people see Jesus, God, Mary etc. some even say they saw "Hell"...

The book I mentioned said that right after we die we enter this plane which he called "illusionary plan", basically what we consider paradise, "heaven" - the FIRST plane of many others in the afterlife which we ultimately go.

The interesting thing was that he said this plane is the "illusionary plane" because it SOMEWHAT resembles our normal Earth, except that everything is incredible amazing, beautiful and literally "all our dreams come true". (Eg like in Paradise). It is a plane which is (possibly) made for us for the purpose to experience everything we ever wanted/wished to experience 100% bliss of happiness - UNTIL we, at some point, get tired of it and have grown mature and ready enough to advance into the next plane.

An explanation would be that religious people or people who have a specific belief will therefore encounter EXACTLY THAT what they want/wish/expect - which will resemble their own idea of the afterlife, it's "custom-made" for them, so to speak.

This is my own theory - just saying i found the idea of this first plane of the afterlife interesting.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Thank you very much for all those videos and the good input here in the thread! Fascinating stuff!

Originally posted by squiz
Ascent of the Blessed by Hieronymus Bosch in the year 1491.

Absolutely stunning, realizing that before Moody's book came out in 1975, NDEs were basically really not widely known. He even captured that wavy "texture" inside the tunnel nicely that many describe.

reply to post by flexy123


Because of these NDE'S I came to the conclusion that the "spiritual" world is "mental" and whatever one believes/expects is created there (whether they expect to see Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad, Buddha, etc.), sort of like The Law of Attraction.

Now, what do you believe the second plane to be after the "illusionary" plane?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by flexy123

 

Because of these NDE'S I came to the conclusion that the "spiritual" world is "mental" and whatever one believes/expects is created there (whether they expect to see Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad, Buddha, etc.), sort of like The Law of Attraction.

In many ways this is what is outlined in the Tibetan book of the dead.

I've read accounts where the light was transforming into different religious figures, mandalas and other iconic symbols. Another where the light asked what religious figure should guide.

It was also after Carl Jung's NDE that he developed his archetypes of collective unconsciousness theories.
www.near-death.com...

.

Our Universe is Energy ..Even what people call matter fluctuates in and out of existence constantly ..

also referred to as vacuum fluctuations ..

Consciousness is everything ..what you believe or expect dictates the experience to some extent .

Fear can bind you on the Earth plane or dimension until you overcome it ..

That is why I oppose Religions that teach fear and punishment that is simply not true .

God is loving and all that is .. we need to understand this to move beyond our current experience .

and its not that so called evil serves no purpose either it is a learning tool for immortal experiential beings .

Here is my NDE summary

www.nderf.org...

.

Many have the Black Tunnel Experience when they have a near-death experience. I have experienced the black tunnel myself, although I saw no light, no heaven, etc., just a long tunnel. This is a reoccurring theme in the Near-Death Experience and is hardly coincidental. Clearly it is something beyond our normal understanding of reality and consciousness. When I was in the tunnel, I felt myself to be in pure spirit form, feeling only a mild feeling of peace. I had no worries or concern. I saw only blackness and a blue sphere behind which, I understood to be the world I was leaving behind, before I was then sucked back into my body (which was the traumatizing part.)

No doubt different people will interpret the events differently. It is also possible that conscious, or sub-conscious, beliefs may pop up while having an out-of-body experience like this. Sometimes it might be a defensive mechanism, and there are other possibilities. But it should not be written off. What I experienced was absolutely real. And again, speaking to the skeptical mind here, the familiar theme of a black tunnel and sometimes a light on the other side cannot be written off as coincidental.

She chooses to continue to live and wakes up in the ER.

reply to post by flexy123


She had a taste of blissful, unimaginable paradise in heaven, and she chooses THIS life? Please.

the NDEr sees how those beings are literally guiding the hands/movements of the surgeons

That's right. We all know that surgeons are stupid and have no idea how to resuscitate a heart.

A woman has a bad accident and upon impact gets knocked unconscious and has an NDE

Not sure, but I don't think being knocked unconscious is considered an NDE.

I realized that I wasted a lot of time and energy on the negative things, rather than the positive things like love etc."

Wait! We can waste time and energy on negative things (being a destructive force in our own lives) and STILL make it into heaven? I am sooo there!

sigh. I guess you'll keep on believing this crap and call ME a party-pooper.

The first account by the OP is Anita Moorjani, has some video interviews you can google for those interested.

reply to post by R0CR13

Originally posted by R0CR13

God is loving and all that is .. we need to understand this to move beyond our current experience .

Exactly. God is all that is. God is the ocean and we are the waves (as human form), which means that we are also the ocean (God).

We think that things are sometimes not going according to our "will" when in the bigger picture it always is!

Being God (or "merging with God - as some like to say") really is a change in perspective.

Originally posted by jiggerj

She chooses to continue to live and wakes up in the ER.

reply to post by flexy123

 

She had a taste of blissful, unimaginable paradise in heaven, and she chooses THIS life? Please.

I have had spiritual experiences where I felt positive and free from the turmoil of this existence, yet still wanted to come back. In my case I think it was a sense of duty or purpose, or a simple desire to live and experience. From the spiritual (non-emotional) perspective, this life is an adventure worth having, with obstacles that can and will be overcome. It is only while here, heavy with our emotions, that we feel overwhelmed by them and sometimes desire to leave so we can be done with the obstacles. It is an emotional decision and doesn't apply to the spiritual perspective.

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2

Originally posted by jiggerj

She chooses to continue to live and wakes up in the ER.

reply to post by flexy123

 

She had a taste of blissful, unimaginable paradise in heaven, and she chooses THIS life? Please.

I have had spiritual experiences where I felt positive and free from the turmoil of this existence, yet still wanted to come back. In my case I think it was a sense of duty or purpose, or a simple desire to live and experience. From the spiritual (non-emotional) perspective, this life is an adventure worth having, with obstacles that can and will be overcome. It is only while here, heavy with our emotions, that we feel overwhelmed by them and sometimes desire to leave so we can be done with the obstacles. It is an emotional decision and doesn't apply to the spiritual perspective.

Are you implying that we lose our emotions in paradise? How would that be paradise then if we couldn't feel it?

When we die and fly into the light we should immediately understand three things:

If we are not completely overwhelmed by bliss, then it isn't paradise and we've been told a BS story.
Life on earth lasts no longer than the blink of an eye, so there's no point in coming back (if paradise exists).
No point in coming back to help out our loved ones because they too will be in paradise in the blink of an eye.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Those LIES are the reason that most people can't handle the truth.

All these NDE's PROVE that religion is lying to us.

There was the impressive account of a lady who had an NDE in hospital. It was catholic hospital, run by nuns.
When she came to her after her NDE, she was eager to tell someone about her experience. She told a nun, and the nun told her "It's work by the devil"...

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2

Originally posted by jiggerj

She chooses to continue to live and wakes up in the ER.

reply to post by flexy123

 

She had a taste of blissful, unimaginable paradise in heaven, and she chooses THIS life? Please.

I have had spiritual experiences where I felt positive and free from the turmoil of this existence, yet still wanted to come back. In my case I think it was a sense of duty or purpose, or a simple desire to live and experience. From the spiritual (non-emotional) perspective, this life is an adventure worth having, with obstacles that can and will be overcome. It is only while here, heavy with our emotions, that we feel overwhelmed by them and sometimes desire to leave so we can be done with the obstacles. It is an emotional decision and doesn't apply to the spiritual perspective.

Are you implying that we lose our emotions in paradise? How would that be paradise then if we couldn't feel it?

When we die and fly into the light we should immediately understand three things:

If we are not completely overwhelmed by bliss, then it isn't paradise and we've been told a BS story.
Life on earth lasts no longer than the blink of an eye, so there's no point in coming back (if paradise exists).
No point in coming back to help out our loved ones because they too will be in paradise in the blink of an eye.

You misunderstand what I was saying. It was a black tunnel, not paradise. It wasn't a wonderful place, just a place of peace. I have no answers. I'm not one of those people who come on here with made-up stories or claiming to have answers. I merely have experiences. I have no idea where the black tunnel leads, and while there I forgot everything about my previous life. The further I went, the more I forgot about where I was and what it meant to me. That was part of what was so terrible about coming back. It was tragic for me, a young boy at the time, to realize that everything that mattered to me could be so easily forgotten when I'd leave. That is the scary part but I mention it to make the point that it is hardly a delusion of paradise.

I have been reading about NDE's recently and also of OBE's and astral projection as well as chemically induced NDE's and other sensory alteration experiences and because of my inquisitive mind, I cannot help but wonder whether all of them are simply products of the brain.

One thing we can be sure on is that we perceive reality based on the limitation of our senses. When I see a green apple on the table, the apple in its colour and form is how my brain is interpreting the 'external data' and that process of observation results in the familiar image being formed inside my brain. The same can be said about everything else I hear, see, taste and touch. I hear sounds through the process of vibration picked up by my ears etc, and signals being sent to the brain......

So my thoughts are these: When someone is thought to have an OBE or an NDE, what is it that is causing perception? Lets say a man dies and 'see' himself on an operating table and 'hears' surgical procedures etc. How can one perceive such things without sensory perception? Much less, to perceive them in such a way that only a biological human being can as well?

If you are in a supposed state of consciousness, devoid of the body and separate from its limitations, then any form of perception you experience should not be limited by senses. You should experience external reality as it exists, not as a human being having electrical signals interpreted by your brain. You shouldn't then, in theory, 'hear' anything, 'see' anything, or be able to have any sort of reality which is even remotely related to human perception because the very things that provide those forms of perception no longer apply to you.

But the only things experienced are that of someone who can only draw upon experiences and imagination which are based wholly on a system of human perception. That is, they are not experiences which are independent of the brain, they are experiences which are formed fundamentally from a brain.

If I could remove myself from my own reality and the way in which I perceive it in such a way as to become an independent observer, I wouldn't observe things as I do now as my perception is based on a human decoding system. Why then, do NDE's perceive things based on such laws and why is their version of reality during these episodes based on a finite system with biological laws?

Near Death Experiences are personal, but all who saw The Light that created all things (God) agree that is LOVE and wants us to live through LOVE so why not just keep that in mind despite the other things that may be different? The essence of God is the same no matter who experiences him. God is Light, Love, an Forgiveness more than any human could possibly even imagine.

There doesn't have to be any correlation between an NDE and God. I'm personally staying away from talking about God and my somewhat mixed views as I wanted to put forward the doubts I have as to why I think NDE's are a product of the brain and are bio chemically induced.

I struggle with the concept of there being an afterlife at all. I am fascinated by the idea nonetheless but I just can't accept that is what's going on. Firstly though, regarding NDE's, the person who is experiencing it, should have no human-biological form of perception whatsoever. Since our perception is defined by physical characteristics and sensory limitations, the 'perception' of someone 'outside' of the physical body and with no brain or sense organs should have absolutely zero similarity to a person within a human body. Therefore, when they 'come back', their accounts, experiences and thoughts and knowledge, should be indescribable to a point of absolute incomprehensibility. Yet they perceive, hear, see, and act as if they are experiencing something based on human perception. I really struggle with this.

a reply to: Audiokat
I have had 3 nde and other experiences and I am still sort of 50/50 on it .

But I must say that it's the conduit through which we can understand it, that it comes ..
oh lol I think I got that .
1%

That was weird the videos were empty when lurking and there when logged in .


What freaks me out is these stories of people waking up in the morge after being dead for hours ,even after all I don't like to dwell on it.

There is much on my mind about this , it's awkward 50/50. I try to go over and pick the nits out of my own ndes , and then giving birth there is a moment when you think it's not what we think it is. As well .