The role of the Wealthy in the path to Enlightenment

One sub theme brought up in a thread i Oped was the idea that people who have been wealthy their whole life and never had to worry about mortgage and losing their job and those kind of survival pressures of life; cannot really impart and tell the average person anything useful to path to enlightenment.

The premise of this was the wealthy person does not deal with the survival reality of the daily grind the average
person faces and therefore cant be in a position to understand the average persons struggles.

The context of this discussion relates to the weathy person who were born to wealth and always have known it and never had to worry about getting job or renting, and eeking out a living. All survival necessities to them such as house, food, entertainment has always been provided to them.

In the path to enlightenment a average person follows in there life can these wealthy persons impart and tell the average person anything useful to their path to enlightenment?

These type of wealthy person differ most significanty in their lives because they are not engaged with the pressures of the daily suvival routines of survival. All materials required for their own or families well being have always been provided for.

The always been wealthy persons will they have a much lower threshold tolerance to dealing with people, because they never have had the same level of direct confrontation exposure to the everday life grind brings to the average person.

The manifestation of this may be the weathy persons feels more easily intimidated, agititated and stressed in situations dealing with people if they find themselves confronted with everyday people who are filled with different motivations and points of view on life.

What happens if the wealthy person seeks using their priviledged position to develop a movement following to become a Guru. Should the average person view the wealthy person as a geniune or a false Guru?

What happens if the wealthy person comes on a forum such as Ats and becomes stressed and upset because they dont think the average person is getting their ideas on truth and freedom, is that the average persons failing to listen?

I personally do not have the answers to these questions so i throw it to you people to let me know what you think.

Anyone can follow a spiritual path and find God (or in nontheist terms, themselves or the Tao). Poor, rich, and in between. However, you must understand: Money is only a measure of effort and success. The more effort you put in, and/or the more successful (or in many cases, fortunate to be born into a wealthy family), the more money you have. However, this does not mean those who put in much effort always become rich.

Effort is measured, lack of effort never pays. In the effortlessness of the world, you find nothing. In the effortlessness of the mind, you find everything.

This, to me, is why a person may be more fortunate to be born under hard circumstances. To overcome the physical, mental, and spiritually obstacles, you become greater than you once were on all levels. Someone who is wealthy has less obstacles to overcome, but they are replaced by the obstacles of greed, impulses, and total selfishness.

Rich or poor, we are born into this world enlightened, and we grow ignorant. But rich or poor, we ultimately overcome ourselves and benefit the world by doing so in our selflessness.

I don't believe a person's wealth has anything to do with their path so to speak. I've met poor enlightened and rich ignorant and vice-versa. A person's economic status doesn't add or subtract from their life challenges, it just changes their perspective. Both will have different events that will challenge them but neither is better or worse for it. How someone prevails or fails in life has little or nothing to do with the amount in their bank account. Because you may not be rich in money and presume to think that wealthy people have less problems, troubles, and challenges are simply a uninformed view of their situation because you personally have not experienced it. They may have different issues but issues non the less.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Good thread... S&F

The context of this discussion relates to the weathy person who were born to wealth and always have known it and never had to worry about getting job or renting, and eeking out a living. All survival necessities to them such as house, food, entertainment has always been provided to them.

A person born into wealth has a different path of learning then someone who is born into poverty or moderate wealth...

Perhaps said person has already understood the struggles of poverty, yet has not understood the life of the spiritual path...

In the path to enlightenment a average person follows in there life can these wealthy persons impart and tell the average person anything useful to their path to enlightenment?

Depends on the person... and the one seeking knowledge from said wealthy individual...

The always been wealthy persons will they have a much lower threshold tolerance to dealing with people, because they never have had the same level of direct confrontation exposure to the everday life grind brings to the average person.

that is an assumption...

The manifestation of this may be the weathy persons feels more easily intimidated, agititated and stressed in situations dealing with people if they find themselves confronted with everyday people who are filled with different motivations and points of view on life.

As is that statement...

What happens if the wealthy person seeks using their priviledged position to develop a movement following to become a Guru. Should the average person view the wealthy person as a geniune or a false Guru?

Again this depends on the person you're speaking of.... IF a wealthy person develops a spiritual following through monetary means, I would say that said person is a false teacher... Though that person may have a following which involves teaching people to invest and gain money... He probably has some valid lessons for his students..

What happens if the wealthy person comes on a forum such as Ats and becomes stressed and upset because they dont think the average person is getting their ideas on truth and freedom, is that the average persons failing to listen?

No... It is the fault of the person getting upset...

Said person failed to explain his ideas in a calm and composed fashion... These people that are easily upset about words on a forum rarely have anything useful to share in any case...

And if said person is getting upset... I would say that persons does not truly believe in his theory...

Just my opinion of course... I do enjoy dragging the rage out of our members...

reply to post by AthlonSavage

The Buddha himself was born into money and royalty, and left it all in pursuit of truth.

I agree, having a financial comfort zone makes it much harder though

reply to post by Carreau

wealthy people have less problems, troubles, and challenges are simply a uninformed view of their situation because you personally have not experienced it. They may have different issues but issues non the less.

The context people who were born wealthy not people who went from poor to rich. The wealthy people you are running into may be the later.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


You presume too much. I know the difference between someone born wealthy and someone who became wealthy. However YOUR presumptions are wrong and please don't try and project them onto me.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

You presume too much. I know the difference between someone born wealthy and someone who became wealthy. However YOUR presumptions are wrong and please don't try and project them onto me.

Well this thrread is exploring the role of wealthy people in enlightment. The context of the discussion was explained in the OP people born wealthy. So i think you must be saying you know some or alot of people who were born wealthy and you consider their tribulations along the road to enlightenment, or higher spiritual states of awareness is not that different or arduous a path to that of the average human, correct or not?

Wealthy people are people with wealth, whether they accumulated it themselves or through inheritance. So, they have just as much opportunity to experience enlightenment, education and/or epiphany as anyone else. In fact, unfortunately, they are more likely to have these opportunities because some of their time (or even most) can be easily focused on such pursuits while those living by lesser means may need to capitalize on their time in efforts to survive and/or provide for dependents and can't "waste" time with more seemingly abstract things like enlightenment or personal enrichment.

Note that "gurus" can indeed come from money. Buddha was wealthy. L. Ron Hubbard was a man of means. If they don't have money, they're shysters who can quickly accumulate it from duping their followers.

Your entire premise is flawed. Wealth has nothing to do with enlightenment. I thought I made that clear in my first post. I don't know how to tell you in any other way that you would understand. You failed to prove any correlation between wealth and enlightenment to even set the parameters of your hypothesis.

Maybe you bought into the class envy meme and because you haven't experienced monetary wealth first hand you presume that it cures all challenges in life, therefore stunting development. I'm sorry to disappoint you but that simply is not the case.

reply to post by Hadrian

In fact, unfortunately, they are more likely to have these opportunities because some of their time (or even most) can be easily focused on such pursuits while those living by lesser means may need to capitalize on their time in efforts to survive and/or provide for dependents and can't "waste" time with more seemingly abstract things like enlightenment or personal enrichment.

So doesnt that infer then the average man needs a different system to that of the wealthy to get him/her to that cross roads of enlightenment? And if so then going to wealthy for advice may be counterproductive because their system may be unpracticably implementable into the life survival effort routines of the average person?

reply to post by Carreau

I personally do not have the answers to these questions so i throw it to you people to let me know what you think

This is a discussion forum exploring an idea. Your one post isnt the be and end all of exploring this idea. There are no dissapointments in this discussion there is just ideas and opinions to throw into the mix. Its highly likley at the end of this thread there will be a mix/mash of views and whose right and wrong comes down to what the individual sees as truth. In my own opinion the indivdiuals persoanl opinion is the truth (therefore there can be no exact reference point for a wrong or right answer in this thread).

reply to post by AthlonSavage


No. Why do you assume there is only one path, rather than an infinite number?

I personally do not have the answers to these questions so i throw it to you people to let me know what you think

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I posted what I thought and you obviously didn't like that I questioned your post. That tells me you weren't looking for critical thought but looking for confirmation of your own beliefs. Which is fine just put that in your post so as to not waste anyone's time that doesn't agree with you.

reply to post by Hadrian

No. Why do you assume there is only one path, rather than an infinite number?

Are you able to describe briefly the paths you are aware of? It would be nice to compare, after all humans do this naturally....compare this deal against that etc.

reply to post by Carreau

I posted what I thought and you obviously didn't like that I questioned your post. That tells me you weren't looking for critical thought but looking for confirmation of your own beliefs. Which is fine just put that in your post so as to not waste anyone's time that doesn't agree with you.

I personally am interested in hearing opinions. I may not personally agree with a opinion or be convinced of it. Generally when im not convinced i will prod back to flesh things out more. I have to admit however i think you contribution is mainly ego centrical. Since you speaking honestly about my motives id thought id let you know.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


No, I gotta to go to bed now. There's a wealth of information on the Internet, though, regarding personal enlightenment. I'm sure of it. Best of luck.

A daily, serious meditation practice is one possible route that can be free, depending on your flavor.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


The only "ego" is yours to presume you know the path of EVERYONE born wealthy, and now it's bruised. My apologies. What other groups are you privy to? If you can't see the ridiculousness of what you have posted here then there is nothing left for me to say. You should focus on your own path, it is in need of attention. Good luck.

reply to post by Carreau

The only "ego" is yours to presume you know the path of EVERYONE born wealthy, and now it's bruised. My apologies. What other groups are you privy to? If you can't see the ridiculousness of what you have posted here then there is nothing left for me to say. You should focus on your own path, it is in need of attention. Good luck.

Yes my egos all battered and bruised Egos love this! Have a nice day.

reply to post by AthlonSavage



Money doesn't shelter a person totally. Problems can always come from other places besides the threat of starvation of facing a terrible boss.

In fact, those who work get to escape from lots of crap.