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MO Illegally Took DHS Grant $ and is working to become REAL lD ACT Compliant

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posted on Mar, 17 2013 @ 09:38 PM
First, I want to really thank you for your efforts and work on behalf of the members here and far more importantly, on behalf of the people of the State of Missouri. This whole issue is something local news is quite content to just pretend doesn't exist unless it drops on them like the house on the Wicked Witch.....if they honestly HAVE given it much thought directly. Perhaps they really haven't with everything else happening daily now to keep us all jumping from crisis to crisis. A newsroom would be worse...I'll hold that thought for the local news.

So that brings me to my second and really, most important point. I've done quite a bit over the last couple years to try and work toward changing this path we're on. I would say in all fairness, you've done more and been closer to the heart of matters than I have, particularly in the recent past. The issue we're talking about here today is far beyond something that just 'passes by' or can be ignored until it goes away, as we all agree. Ignoring it is HOW we got into this mess in the first place.

That leads from point to problem and perhaps you have some ideas on this? You're upset about this... I'm upset about this..and everyone I know who I've explained it to or who has heard about the full scope of pissed about it. Hardly anyone DOES know though? How do we solve that problem? How do we change that situation?

#1 Personally..I voted/elected the mix I did for the ballot so we COULD have a Dem Governor and a Repub Lt. Gov. I WANTED the exchange and mix of competing ideas to balance out for our state. I'll bet a good many of our fellow residents thought the very same thing. The fact Nixon won't even sit to meet over important state business is enough by itself and irregardless of WHAT the business is. It'd be like Obama saying he won't meet with Biden! We just ASSUME these things happen and they find a way to work things out.

How do we get the message across publicly that this is even occurring? That our top executive leader won't even meet with the second in place WE also elected to serve?

#2 The DOR/License Bureau is a big big deal. This is a BIG deal. Folks here don't love the Government on the best of days a general overall feeling. The idea that the Feds colluded with a state agency to bust over State law that I'll bet most folks AGREE WITH is outrageous. Literally, infuriating.

How so we get THAT message out to the public in a way that resonates and is easily understood? As state residents..and not within the political system or


#3 I feel like I just discovered a long, trusted friend had been stealing trinkets from my house for years! NO way to know what trinkets or precisely how...I just know I've been screwed and it sure feels like a larger one than first proven. one of your posts notes, the DOR has sandbagged us. This is a *HUGE THING* in my mind. HUGE. Perhaps the LARGEST part of the entire problem. They didn't do this in isolation or thinking they were doing a nasty bad thing that no one ever ever did before ...and everyone in state Government would just go ballistic if discovered. No... the DOR appears to have felt pretty comfy in throwing state law to the wind for what they had their own reasons for doing.

What does that tell you? Aside from the need to clean out the DOR?

It tells me, the people at the decision level in doing this know or at least suspect and assume that this level of wrong doing isn't unique or perhaps even uncommon ...across other areas at their level of State Government operations. HOW much more is being done to us then, by our own State Agencies against and around OTHER parts of the same State Government?


I don't mind telling you, I've had some level of confidence in our position here in Missouri because I've had confidence in our State level Government. They follow things like Hancock. That's a huge thing while looking at states unprotected that way. They aren't ..or weren't..spending like drunken sailors on a bender, either. These and other reasons have left me with confidence that we have a margin of room from what is happening in some of the worse states.

If the Feds are actively undermining Missouri State Government's integrity from the shadows? .....that confidence is shaken, at the very least.

Thank you again for all the work you have and continue to invest into this.

posted on Mar, 18 2013 @ 12:12 AM
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Thank you for adding your thoughts to this post. I have to disagree with you about me doing more, not here at ATS anyway, considering the number of responses my posts get compared to yours.

Did we ignore this or was it that DHS, MO Dept. of Revenue and other guilty parties yet unnamed did their damnedest to keep the public in the dark about this because it is a must win for them? I have scoured the net searching for news stories, government press reports, anyway pertaining to this and they tucked this in the closet pretty darn well.

Quite honestly, a month ago I didn't even know about the REAL ID Act so I truly got a crash course on it when the story broke. I think the majority of citizens are unaware of what their government is doing which makes getting away with wrongdoing all the easier. People are either too busy, too apathetic or took the pill that allows them to deny the myriad of # that faces the world, so they hit the ignore button and tune in to American Idol or whatever. So I ask you: Is making people who don't care aware going to help at all? Will they stand up and even bother to call their legislators? Nothing wrong with putting the bug in their ear, someday maybe they will put 2 +2 together and see the mess we are facing.

What can we do??? Missouri Family Network has some suggestions. I will list a few from the link:

Check your CCW and driver’s license. If they are expiring within the next six months, call to confirm and get to a fee office ASAP to renew while you can without intrusive government scans.

If you have had your source documents scanned without your express permission, please call us at 314-971-2477 to make plans to come to Jefferson City to talk to lawmakers about the experience.

File a civil lawsuit! If you had documents scanned, or refuse to allow it to be done, talk to a local attorney about filing a civil suit. Nothing gets more attention and response than a court summons!

Keep calling your lawmakers and demanding answers and a reversal of the DOR’s offensive attempt to circumvent the law and the trust of the citizens of the Great State of Missouri.

Communicate with Lawmakers in Jefferson City that they keep looking for solutions while striving to hold DOR officials accountable. The vast majority of lawmakers are very upset with this!

Write “letters to the editor”, call radio show hosts, speak up in public forums & in the public square. Do not allow these invasions of privacy to go unchallenged – your grandchildren need you!

My thoughts:

Support any legislation that might protect your liberties. Missouri First has an awesome program that allows you to provide witness testimony to both houses of Missouri congress via online witness testimony form that become part of the congressional record on crucial bills. How cool is that? Every legislator in the state gets your input, not just the one in your district.

If you use Facebook send a friends request to legislators who are "movers and shakers" to keep abreast of the latest happenings in the legislature. Missouri Family Network FB has the latest news on congress.

Spread the latest news to other organizations that have an interest. In this case any liberty organizations, GOA, etc. National organizations may not be aware of what is going on in our state. Many of them have contact forms on their webpage. You can also keep up by getting on their mailing list. I have a feeling you do these things, I am just putting this out there for the benefit of those who don't. Defcon5 posted a link with a huge # of religious groups that oppose Real ID. Looks like I have homework. Raise awareness with groups that support your effort.

Fill your email address with contacts who you know are reporting crucial stories and share any brainstorms you have with them on. For example: I sent Katherine Albrecht, RFID expert, an email and filled her in on what is going on in Missouri and encouraged her spread the news, even suggested a C2C appearance with George Noory and copied the email to Mr. Noory. It is a matter of casting your bread upon the water.

On this issue, definitely let your legislators know how peeved you are about this. I went to Nixon's webpage and sent him a scathing message, copied and forwarded it to my legislators telling them the guilty must be held accountable and the DMV changes that were illegal need to be undone. I sent a tough message to the Atty. General as well, need divine intervention for him to move on this IMHO. Encourage your friends to do the same and ask them to pass it on.

If you post on the Ron Paul Forums or the Daily Paul share the story there.

I can relate to your disillusionment and count it as a learning experience.

posted on Mar, 18 2013 @ 08:59 AM
Thank you very much for your reply and information. I'm sorry to see your thread didn't get more notice and traffic here, as this is a critically important issue.

I'm going to spend a bit of time putting serious thought into what can be done for outreach. There must be better ways than this. You ask what can be done by informing people or getting folks aware of the duplicity and outright illegal maneuvering which is happening right now? I say people power is like nothing else and people do care. I believe that. At least, enough for the effort to be well worth it.

I think people have, perhaps by design, been overloaded with so much and such a state of perpetual crisis now since about 2007, that even a matter of importance like this will fall away as just one more crisis that needs attention, but who has the time? (for the average person).

I'll tell you though, I learned a great deal in my brief time living in an Occupy camp. I learned a lot more in the months spent supporting the national movement in other ways before I parted company with it. What I learned above all though is that people DO care. The trick isn't getting concern, it's getting through the firewall of "Not another problem....enough!" which has built over the years.

To put this another way though and equally valid. It's fair to say people power or the support and active work of people won't, by itself, solve anything. (People power with intelligent direction and focus will). WITHOUT people though, nothing happens and nothing changes.

It's all a numbers game, after all. If I walk in with 10,000 people behind my cause ...and you walk in with 500..even if you have long history and standing with the elected official we're meeting, I'm walking out of the meeting with as much accomplished as the meeting could produce, while you'll be leaving with very polite and nice sounding platitudes and patronizing. Numbers.... The cause, people or meaning isn't even important next to that.

So.... I really need to think here about where we live and this area of Missouri. How would people here best come upon this to learn it...since TV and Radio is obviously not helpful in spreading much. Fox Radio is a favorite in this area...but Fox Radio is also national on almost everything broadcast. Lots of help that is with local radio.

Perhaps I should work on developing a new Web project specifically on this issue. Not general problems in our state..but THIS issue as this thread is laying it out? Hmm.... That's an idea for one effort?

posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 12:37 PM
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I encourage any efforts you can put forth and a web project sounds good to me. With your experience, insight and positive attitude you can make change happen. I would suggest you network with Missouri First and Missouri Family Network. They should be most willing to offer advice and use the tools at their disposal to help you in this effort. They recognize the importance of this issue.

If you take this on, keep us informed. You have alot of people at ATS who look up to you and hopefully will contribute to the effort.

Thank you and I pray for God's blessing on your efforts.

posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 11:13 AM
The Missouri legislature continues to battle the illegal implementation of the Real ID Act.

The Director of Missouri Dept of Revenue has been subpoenaed for documents relative to distribution of our private information, including CCW status, and the collection of biometric data on every driver license holder, and the illegal implementation of REAL-ID.

Subpoena pdf

Rep. Kurt Bahr filed a bill to deal with Missouri department heads who break the law. His bill would provide a procedural process to put teeth in this article of the Missouri constitution:

Art VII Sect 4 of the MO Constitution states "Except as provided in this constitution, all officers not subject to impeachment shall be subject to removal from office in the manner and for the causes provided by law."

HB 886. This bill provides a process allowing the General Assembly to fire Department heads and Deputy Department Heads who lie to the Legislature (as DOR did to the Senate), violate the law (as DOR did by purchasing and using facial recognition cameras and sending that personal information to the federal government) or engaging in other offenses an elected official may be impeached for.

edit on 3/31/2013 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2013 @ 06:02 PM
As promised earlier here is the response I got from my Representative...

We are keeping tabs on this. Below is a link to a House Bill that I have co-sponsored that would keep DOR from copying/scanning/retaining any source documents.

I will continue to look into this. I do believe it is a problem. The increased overreach of the Federal Government is appalling.

Joe Don McGaugh

Here is who has sponsored/cosponsored the bill:

HAMPTON AND KELLEY (127) (Co-sponsors).

Also here is the text:

Section A. Chapter 302, RSMo, is amended by adding thereto one new section, to be
known as section 302.065, to read as follows:

1. Notwithstanding section 32.090 or any other provision of law to the
2 contrary, the department of revenue shall not retain copies, in any format, of source
3 documents presented by individuals applying for or holding driver's licenses or nondriver's
4 licenses. The department of revenue shall not use technology to capture digital images of
5 source documents so that the images are capable of being retained in electronic storage in
6 a transferable format.
Same source as above...

I informed Rep McGaugh that this was all well and good but what about taking some action against the people who obviously acted in complete disregard for the law and took clear steps to implement the Real ID program?

Haven't heard back on that part.

At this point it’s a lot like putting the feathers back into a torn a pillow in a windstorm.

I am afraid - once we have gotten this far into compliance we are not going to be able go backward.

Which incidentally was exactly the plan I assume on the part of these appointees and bureaucrats; to seek forgiveness in the absence of permission... To just do as they saw fit to advance the agenda (I am sure in exchange for some immunity and protection) and hope no one noticed until it was too late to go backwards.

edit on 31/3/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 09:41 PM
Highway patrol gave feds Missouri weapon permits data

JEFFERSON CITY – The Missouri State Highway Patrol has twice turned over the entire list of Missouri concealed weapon permit holders to federal authorities, most recently in January, Sen. Kurt Schaefer said Wednesday.

Heads should roll at DOR, but only the Governor can fire department heads (at least until HB 886 passes) and he is not touching this one.

So what can be deduced from this latest information?

We know that somebody out there, probably in the federal government, wants the list of all the concealed carry holders in Missouri. We know that now.

“We know one other piece of information – we know the department is actively and purposefully concealing that information from us,” Schaaf said.

posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 09:49 PM
reply to post by Golf66

I am afraid - once we have gotten this far into compliance we are not going to be able go backward.

My thoughts, too. Sigh.

posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 08:09 AM

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Highway patrol gave feds Missouri weapon permits data

JEFFERSON CITY – The Missouri State Highway Patrol has twice turned over the entire list of Missouri concealed weapon permit holders to federal authorities, most recently in January, Sen. Kurt Schaefer said Wednesday.

Heads should roll at DOR, but only the Governor can fire department heads (at least until HB 886 passes) and he is not touching this one.

So what can be deduced from this latest information?

We know that somebody out there, probably in the federal government, wants the list of all the concealed carry holders in Missouri. We know that now.

“We know one other piece of information – we know the department is actively and purposefully concealing that information from us,” Schaaf said.

Drudge Report is running this story right now!

posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 01:31 PM

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Heads should roll at DOR, but only the Governor can fire department heads (at least until HB 886 passes) and he is not touching this one.

I read an article today from the Colum biaTribune

Missouri State Highway Patrol Col. Ron Replogle was questioned for nearly an hour this morning by the Senate Appropriations Committee after he revealed to Chairman Kurt Schaefer yesterday that his agency had turned over the data.

So at least Rep Schaefer is looking into this issue further. He said the list was sent by a mid level "staffer".

In November 2011 and again in January, Replogle said, an agent of the Social Security Administration Office of Inspector General received discs with the data. Each time, the agent was unable to read the encryption format and destroyed the discs, Replogle said.

I find this testimony to be of dubious veracity. Replogle also testified...

“They said no names were retrieved,” Replogle told the committee this morning. “They do not have those names. They did not disseminate that information, and all that information has been destroyed. We have asked for that documentation of what has happened.”

I also find that tidbit hard to believe...

The data was turned over because the Office of Inspector General is a law enforcement agency, Replogle said. It was done by a mid-level supervisor at the patrol. Replogle said he was not informed of the transfer until four weeks ago.

This is an outright stretch - the Office of the Inspector General for the Social Security Administration is not a law enforcement agency; however, some of their agents are armed (for thier personal protection) and have arrest powers for violations of the law related to Social Security Fraud and enforcement - last I checked a person's CCW status has zero to do with the SSA.

The intention was to cross-check the names on the concealed carry list with the agency’s list of those with disabilities attributed to mental illness to find possible evidence of fraud in the system.

This is utter BS someone could have had and applied for a CCW then become mentally ill. Besides not all mental illness makes one a danger to themselves or others. Having or not having a CCW permit has zero bearing on one's eligability to claim SS disability.

This is just evidence that there is in fact a stealth registry and an attempt to use it to disarm certain citizens without due process but through the threat of withdrawal of eligibility for SS benefits. It is a shake down and intimidation. Brown Shirt style.

edit on 11/4/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/4/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 07:54 PM
Now we have the issue of what to do with the department heads who broke the law by allowing this and lied in a senate hearing. They still sit cozy in their positions because Governor Nixon is not too keen on firing his appointees.

On Monday (April 15, 2013) HB 886 goes to committee. This Bill gives the legislature have the power to remove department heads who break the law, then lie to a senate committee investigating it.

Is sad that a bill like this should be necessary, but it does give a strong measure of accountability that is missing at this point. Fortunately, both house and senate view this as an high priority and it is being fast tracked.

Additionally, legislation is advancing that will make it clear in no uncertain terms that state departments must protect our personal data.

More information on the latest developments and HR886 available at the Missouri First website.

edit on 4/12/2013 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 10:31 PM
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

That's great if it happens, but is anything being done about reversing the process?
Most states are using the fact that their constituents will not be able to fly as of 2017 as an excuse to mandate this going through. If your state does put an end to it, you will be required to get a Real ID compliant Passport in order to ever fly on an commercial aircraft, unless the entire thing is repealed at a federal level.

edit on 4/12/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 10:29 PM
reply to post by defcon5

Missouri Family Network FB page Monday, April 15, 2013:

House Government Oversight and Accountability Committee focused again this afternoon on the DOR scandal. This time they are driving questions at various officials but plan to deal with HB 886 giving the General Assembly greater authority to fire certain beauracrats, and HB 840 forcing DOR to pay and financial damages to fee offices. (Other bills address damages to citizens also.)

Missouri Family Network FB page April 9, 2013:

Senate Amendment #1 to SB 252 has been adopted by the full Senate. Thus the bill now completely removes CCW endorsements from DOR and leaves the entire CCW process in the hands of local sheriffs. (This includes extending CCW endorsements to 5 years.)

The House on Thursday passed legislation intended to stop the Revenue Department from making electronic copies of concealed-gun permit documents. The bill also would require the department to destroy those documents that already have been collected.

There is a "Sheriff’s CCW Privacy Protection Complaint Form" for CCW holders:

If they are going to revert to the old system I don't know. I will be emailing the director of Missouri First to see what he thinks about the possibility of any of these REAL ID benchmarks getting reversed and let you know what he thinks.

They are moving to audit the DOR.

Also, on Monday Brian Long, Executive Director of the MO DOR resigned. At least 2 more people have their heads on the chopping block.

It's shame on Governor Nixon time for letting this happen.

posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 12:14 AM
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Curious if you caught this:
ABC News: How Feds Will Investigate Boston Marathon Bombing

They will look for when the bombs might have been left behind and then examine the faces of everyone who was in the area around that time. They will try to put names to those faces, using facial recognition matching software, drawing on drivers license, passport, and visa databases.

Pretty funny that they are checking the DL database considering that up until now they have stuck to the claim that this information was only held in individual state databases. This is a straight out admission of where this ID is heading, and that they have been less then truthful about it.

Anyone who gets the new ID is basically now considered a criminal suspect with no right to privacy, and no freedom from unreasonable search. They don't even have to bother with a warrant anymore. You are searched, compared, and put into a “virtual line up” without your consent, knowledge, or even so much as “probable cause”.

More here:
Video: FaceFirst CEO Joe Rosenkrantz discusses the use of facial recognition software in the Boston Marathon bombing investigation with Emily Chang on Bloomberg Television's "Bloomberg West." (Source: Bloomberg)

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 09:48 AM
reply to post by defcon5

No, I did not catch that information. I will definitely pass it on.
Thanks for sharing.

posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 11:02 AM
As a Missourian I am excited for our new licenses.

I am scared to leave my house at night, I live in Saint Louis. We got a crime rate that is JUST RIDICULOUS.

I cant wait for someone to come up into my house. I'll shoot and ask questions later. Not sympathy for a dead burglar
edit on 4/18/2013 by truthinfact because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 11:52 AM
reply to post by truthinfact

Dead men tell no tales, either. Stay safe.
Can you imagine how frightening it would be to live where you do with out anyway to protect yourself?

posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 07:51 PM
reply to post by defcon5

My friend at Missouri First thinks we can only fight this one play at a time -- we're learning as we go.

He noted that all the positive discussion of how facial recognition will help find the bomber complicates our argument.

He believes the airlines might want to help fight if Real ID compliance causes loss of revenue for airlines. Personally, I don't think this administration gives a fig about helping our economy and will not relent in this universal ID program.

posted on Apr, 24 2013 @ 07:07 PM
Kerry Messer with Missouri Family Network sums up the situation in under a minute. Governor Nixon is in deep trouble.

MO Senate passes budget with no money for licensing; Nixon subpoenaed

That plan would ax 37 full-time positions in the DOR’s license division in a $3.5 million cut. The trims also include a reduction of $7 million in DOR administrative costs, $9 million from the computer technology division of the Office of Administration and another $20 million from the Department of Public Safety administration.

about that subpoena...

The Southeast Missourian reported the subpoena was issued to Nixon in a suit brought by Eric Griffin, a Stoddard County man who was forced to submit to the scanning procedures to get his concealed carry endorsement.

More here:
Attorney: Nixon subpoenaed to testify in concealed carry document suit

posted on May, 1 2013 @ 10:18 AM
Governor Jay Nixon lied about having no knowledge of the illegal implementation of the REAL ID Act.

Kerry Messer, Missouri Family Network, is reporting live from the Missouri Senate via FB:

"JCAR Chairman Schmitt reading letter from Janet Napolitano thanking Gov Nixon for his efforts to implement RealID in Missouri"


"DOR the Gov should have know about the process changes"

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