Physicists say they have found a Higgs boson (God Particle)

Originally posted by bknapple32
reply to post by SilentE

 

Honestly, the best way I can put it is the door analogy. We have a key to unlock it. But I dont think anyone knows what is behind the door. Just a bunch of good guesses. Scientists wont be kicking this door down because of how unknown it is. I think it will be opened very very very slowly millimeter by millimeter.

So we could be in for an interesting year for physics then.

Thanks for helping me understand.

reply to post by Visitor2012


What is the source? What's its purpose?

reply to post by Visitor2012


Hmm seems you have not researched online this took me about 2 seconds


Pictures of ATOMS


so yes, we have seen atoms


ETA: atoms range from 2 to 20 nanometers (aprox) depending on the matter they are made of, atoms are not a static (uniform) size

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

Hmm seems you have not researched online this took me about 2 seconds


Pictures of ATOMS


so yes, we have seen atoms

Those are pictures of cells, not atoms!
So no, we haven't.

The most we have is a 'picture' of an atoms shadow...
'Shadow of an Atom'

Originally posted by bknapple32
Science isnt a guy in a lab coat with beakers. Get that out of your head man. Science is the guy or group of people who push the boundaries of the time.

Lol for a moment I thought you said boundaries of time, cos thats what they will need to do to find the
real higgs

reply to post by Visitor2012


sorry you have miss read whats at the top of the page I linked too, the cells page is a RELATED search.

go back and click the link at the top, it will take you to the cells page..


reading is fundamental

the page you linked to is for VISIBLE light. that is different then an electron microscope.

your shadow pics is the first using a visible LIGHT source, not the first picture of an atom

Im pretty sure scientists have seen atoms. But dont quote me on that.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by larapa

 

They spent billions of tax dollars and have very little to show for it. God I hate science, trying to pollute, genetically modify (sorry genetically improve) everything around us because we are so stupid, arrogant and blinded by greed. No good will come of this discovery in our lifetimes, I dare to predict that.

Meanwhile, thousands of children day every day from war, famine, man created problems and other unholinesses.

Colour me unimpressed. No offence to OP.

Yet, you are using a computer? Do you own a special computer that just popped into being without the previous centuries of human scientific endeavour?

I would like to see this wondrous miracle device.

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

sorry you have miss read whats at the top of the page I linked too, the cells page is a RELATED search.

go back and click the link at the top, it will take you to the cells page..


reading is fundamental

the page you linked to is for VISIBLE light. that is different then an electron microscope.

your shadow pics is the first using a visible LIGHT source, not the first picture of an atom

edit on 14-3-2013 by thedigirati because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-3-2013 by thedigirati because: (no reason given)

Putting aside your personal insults.. It would have been much easier if you had posted a direct link to what you were talking about. But nonetheless, yes there has been images of atoms generated from an electron microscope. But the images themselves are only generated from the 'visible' or 'observable' interaction with the electrons reflecting off of the atom. It is not an atom, it is only the surrounding observable phenomena that is being witnessed. Similar to what we are doing with the Higgs bosom nonsense. And it is no different than using the 'visible light spectrum' as you put it. It's the same thing, just observing more subtler forms of the same energy. The observation of reflected phenomena..like electrons..or protons or whatever form of energy you choose...is all your ever going to get. You can find the Higgs by observing its surrounding phenomena. But how could you ever think to observe a form that creates forms?

TEM creates an image by shining an electron beam on a sample and measuring how much it is deflected by atoms of interest. Lighter atoms deflect electrons less than heavier atoms, which means that only the latter show up on an image.

One article

Observing the deflection of electron beams is hardly the same as observing the atom itself. That's like saying that I see you, because I am observing your surroundings. Sure, you will see evidence of me, by observing the ever changing background behind me. but that is not the same as SEEING me! Utter nonsense.

Forget the Higgs for a moment, lets look at a much larger version of it. Has anyone human seen a black hole? No, they've see only the observable phenomena interacting with 'it'. Like the bosom, in the center of ANY image of a black hole, will be a dark nothingness. You will never see the Higgs. And you will never observe it. You will only be able to observe the phenomena of its surroundings. Which, has an infinite amount of increasingly subtler forms of energy. At the end of the endless depth, this infinite where the concept of matter is trapped, is Nothing.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
God I hate science

Says the man behind a computer using the internet.

such irony.

reply to post by Visitor2012


Curious, I did not see any insult, but my apologies if you felt it so..

How ever by the logic that you are using, then I guess I do not exist,(or can be known) because you have never met me, just seen evidence that I am here.


Trying to use semantics to get your point across seems kinda silly to me, but is your right.


I am 52 years old and started studying physics at age 13, I was in the "gifted" physics program for 6 years in junior high/high school.


granted it's not my field of endeavor now as a living but it's always been my first passion.

reply to post by bknapple32


I was thinking to make this my first thread as when I checked the forum I coulnt see it posted.

This is from the conference in Italy is it?

If so I believe that they are just that little bit closer to having a better understanding as the particle was discovered or speculated that it was in July of last year and this is where the physicists have come too.

I think they are not sure whether its a Higgs in its predicted form or they have discovered there are other types of higgs boson particles.

Mind blowing stuff if one can wrap their heads around, which I have trouble with many times.

Originally posted by bknapple32
Im pretty sure scientists have seen atoms. But dont quote me on that.

edit on 14-3-2013 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)

Seen?
not just seen, they move atoms around and create neat designs from them

IBM Atoms

Originally posted by Visitor2012
Observing the deflection of electron beams is hardly the same as observing the atom itself. That's like saying that I see you, because I am observing your surroundings. Sure, you will see evidence of me, by observing the ever changing background behind me. but that is not the same as SEEING me! Utter nonsense.

Well, how we see anything is seeing not them, but light from elsewhere reflecting off of them..so your not even seeing anything,
hows that for mind boggling..you have never actually seen anything outside of lightsource reflections

Star for you StaurnFX, I was just about to reply with the same information..

this is what happens when folks try to use semantics in a debate, it can come up and bite you back...

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

Curious, I did not see any insult, but my apologies if you felt it so..

How ever by the logic that you are using, then I guess I do not exist,(or can be known) because you have never met me, just seen evidence that I am here.


Trying to use semantics to get your point across seems kinda silly to me, but is your right.


I am 52 years old and started studying physics at age 13, I was in the "gifted" physics program for 6 years in junior high/high school.


granted it's not my field of endeavor now as a living but it's always been my first passion.

edit on 14-3-2013 by thedigirati because: (no reason given)

I hope you were also taught that physics is not a reality in itself. It's a concept based understanding of form, created for convenience of communication and collaboration in the search for the understanding of reality. It is not the foundation of reality itself. I also hope that you were taught that physical matter does not actually exist. That's the whole purpose of the search for the Higgs!

As so, you ask..'Do you exist?'. My question is, 'Has science found existence yet?', what hope of you claiming that you actually exist? When you do not yet know what you are? The term 'Matter' itself being a concept of form, is already becoming extinct. So do you exist?

Your 'education' on physicality has no bearing on the search of the non-physical. Wouldn't you agree? Your understanding of physics, does not apply here. It does not apply to the search of source..be it Higgs .or whatever. That is why science is so urgently trying to FIND the Higgs, haven't you heard? That's the whole point of the search for the Higgs. To finally confirm the missing puzzle that would substantiate all of the conceptual understandings of reality (including the foundation of physics).

We're talking about a much deeper search for the basis of existence. Cutting edge knowledge. The interactions of 'physical' phenomena..such as described in the concept of matter and form, is old news. But I'm glad you have a passion for it. Physics has no place here...this is about the non-physical. The source of all that you observe.

All of your 'educated' understanding of the universe depends on, not only the location of the Higgs, but the observation of the Higgs ITSELF. So far, ALL understanding of the universe, including so called Matter, remains theoretical. To pass a theory off as reality would be destructive...

reply to post by bknapple32


Is this why I feel like my life is collapsing in on itself?

reply to post by Visitor2012


Oh OK I see what you are saying now, the higgs boson is more about philosophy than physics?


so then there was no reason to create the LHC in the first place...


interesting..

so if I say something like 1+1=2 (physics) you will respond along the lines of "no, 1+1=1 because if a man and woman come together and make a child it is (usually) just 1". (philosophy)

in other words your conflating physics with philosophy..

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Visitor2012
Observing the deflection of electron beams is hardly the same as observing the atom itself. That's like saying that I see you, because I am observing your surroundings. Sure, you will see evidence of me, by observing the ever changing background behind me. but that is not the same as SEEING me! Utter nonsense.

Well, how we see anything is seeing not them, but light from elsewhere reflecting off of them..so your not even seeing anything,
hows that for mind boggling..you have never actually seen anything outside of lightsource reflections

My point precisely. .

I'm going to give our Intelligent Scientists the benefit of the doubt, since most of them know this already. But the person that wrote the article, is turning a non-physical science..into pseudo-scientific nonsense. I think he has completely mid-represented the work that these scientists are doing. I truly hope I am correct.

Any moron born in the past 20 years, knows that there is no physicality whatsoever in our universe. Everyone, by now, knows about the split wave experiments and little bit about quantum phenomena. Most of us have only to be consistent with our knowledge and NOT mix it up with old knowledge.

Matter has yet to be found. All that you see are the reflections of energy. So we know nothing..and what we see..is not what we're looking at. We can journey endlessly knowing the phenomena..but Source is not phenomenal. Cutting edge science already knows this. Why it is being packaged for two year old's and sold to the public remains a mystery. Maybe they need more funding..so they spice it up to sound interesting...who knows.

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

Oh OK I see what you are saying now, the higgs boson is more about philosophy than physics?


so then there was no reason to create the LHC in the first place...


interesting..

so if I say something like 1+1=2 (physics) you will respond along the lines of "no, 1+1=1 because if a man and woman come together and make a child it is (usually) just 1". (philosophy)

in other words your conflating physics with philosophy..

Where did you get philosophy from? Philosophy and physics, are both different forms of conceptual understandings of reality used in the pursuit of reality. They are two sides of the same coin.

So talking philosphy is just as pointless as talking about matter (from which physicality and thus physics is based) They're just not applicable when talking about the Source of existence and that of physicality. The Higgs creates the form we call matter, but it does not need matter to exist. It is the source of the existence after all.

Physics and philosphy are both form based and form is their very foundation. But it's useless in this area of science. Just open your eyes to current science, not this tabloid nonsense, and you will see how very little we know about Anything. and until your search is concluded..you know nothing. But theories and ideas. Waving your framed diploma around does little to help you in this regard.