The Great Tribulation to begin sometime shortly after March 20th 2013?

reply to post by truejew


Wow I guess we all missed Christ coming back like in Matthew 24 verse 29 thru 31 . I should have been paying attention .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by truejew

 

Wow I guess we all missed Christ coming back like in Matthew 24 verse 29 thru 31 . I should have been paying attention .

The 70th week of Daniel is not the same as the tribulation and return of Christ.

reply to post by truejew


Daniel 9 verse 27 is all about the obliation to cease and Abomination that Maketh Desolate.That is directly associated with the Great Tribulation which also leads to the coming of Christ .Daniel 12 verse11 thru 13 is another explanation . Matthew 24 explaind further that the times in Daniel 9 verse 27 is the times of the Great Tribulation and return of Christ .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by truejew

 

Daniel 9 verse 27 is all about the obliation to cease and Abomination that Maketh Desolate.That is directly associated with the Great Tribulation which also leads to the coming of Christ .Daniel 12 verse11 thru 13 is another explanation . Matthew 24 explaind further that the times in Daniel 9 verse 27 is the times of the Great Tribulation and return of Christ .

It is associated with what Christ did on the cross.

Christ is the one who puts an end to sacrifice and sin. The Antichrist does not save anyone as your doctrine claims.

reply to post by truejew


You may want to really read Daniel 9 verse 27 . The sacrifice shall be taken away because of the Abomination of Desolation .Jesus does not stop the sacrifice .

I'm suddenly reminded why I became an atheist. Please continue gentlemen, this is fascinating.

No one knows the time, therefore it can't be predicted. When it happens, it will happen: "In the blink of an eye".

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by truejew

 

You may want to really read Daniel 9 verse 27 . The sacrifice shall be taken away because of the Abomination of Desolation .Jesus does not stop the sacrifice .

If that is the case, and the law saves, then Christ died for no reason.

Your doctrine is antichrist.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by St Udio
...consider tht the Great Tribulation only begins immediately after the middle of the final (70th) week of Daniel

The 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled when Christ was crucified. It was finished in 29 AD.

edit on 24-3-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

I keep reading your posts proclaiming that the 70th week has already transpired. Every Biblical scholar I've come across would strongly disagree, unless they are seventh day adventists. The 70th week is THE final week.... and we're all still here.... and no anti-christ has been revealed... Jesus hasn't returned yet.... and we certainly aren't in the middle of His 1,000 year reign. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by truejew

 

Daniel 9 verse 27 is all about the obliation to cease and Abomination that Maketh Desolate.That is directly associated with the Great Tribulation which also leads to the coming of Christ .Daniel 12 verse11 thru 13 is another explanation . Matthew 24 explaind further that the times in Daniel 9 verse 27 is the times of the Great Tribulation and return of Christ .

It is associated with what Christ did on the cross.

Christ is the one who puts an end to sacrifice and sin. The Antichrist does not save anyone as your doctrine claims.

I haven't read any posts claiming that the anti-christ saves. What I am reading is that you don't believe the abomination that causes desolation is the anti-christ setting himself up to be worshipped as god in the temple.

Daniel's 70th week is described by Daniel in Chapter 9:26-27 "...The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He (speaking of the ruler to come who will destroy the city and sanctuary for the final time) will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven' (reading up to this point makes it the final seven). In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

In Daniel 12:11 we are told "From the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of 1,335 days."

Corresponding to this, we have Revelation 13... this is where we are told that satan, the dragon, will authorize the beast (anti-christ and his kingdom) to receive worship... "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." Rev. 13:8

Further, in Rev 13:15, we are told that the false prophet (satan's assistant) will set up an image, and all who will not worship the beast will be killed.

Nowhere do I read people getting saved by the anti-christ... only that he will demand people to worship him as god. I also do not read any part of this being fulfilled yet. If this has been fulfilled, what 7-year covenant (or peace treaty or agreement) do you know about that no one else knows about? When did that take place and by whom? Because according to Daniel himself, that must take place to "kick off" the last week (the final 7 years aka tribulation period).

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by packinmomma
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

If someone rejects the Lord because He didn't arrive on their timing, that just reveals a lack of trust and faith. The same could be said about a believer who turns away from God because they thought he would/should save them their personal difficulty.

No matter what happens, true faith reveals itself and glorifies God by standing firm regardless of the earthly situation. As humans, we may feel disappointment and anguish. But it is through our darkest hours that we cling to Him and feel His presence and comfort, which strengthen us.

As an aside...
I am curious to know what you think about 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2. Specifically, the timing of the revealing of the man of lawlessness and who is holding this back currently. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 "And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

Who do you think this is, as they would have to be powerful enough to hold back the man of lawlessness?

The restrainer is an angel, god does give his angels certain tasks. I don't know this with absolute certainty but we are given some clues in revelation. The beast ascends from out of the bottomless pit to which the angel is given the key (we know an angel is given the key earlier in revelation and allows the locusts to be released from the same pit).

We know that the beast represents the antichrist throughout the book of revelation. We also know that the Archangel Michael and his angels overcome Satan and his angels and throw them out of heaven.


Revelation 12:7-9
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


I think it is fair enough to assume that an angel is powerful enough to restrain the antichrist (beast) until the time of his release.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 is referring to one 'he' - one specific being. Do you believe that one angel is powerful enough and intelligent enough to withhold satan and his minions in this specific task (destruction of all who live on the earth and the revealing of who the final anti-christ is)?

Personally, I believe it is the Holy Spirit. It makes sense in the context of the scripture. Angels and fallen angels are constantly in battle, but only God (as the Holy Spirit) has the authority and power to restrain without battle.

Perhaps, this is the point of no return for both of us, and why we differ on the timing of the rapture. I'd love to share more of my thoughts, but I don't think I'll change your mind either. I will agree to disagree.

Originally posted by packinmomma
The 70th week is THE final week....

The 70th week came right after the 69th week. Otherwise it is not the 70th week and Daniel would be a false prophet.

Originally posted by packinmomma

and we're all still here.... and no anti-christ has been revealed... Jesus hasn't returned yet.... and we certainly aren't in the middle of His 1,000 year reign. Just sayin'.

Again, the 70th week is not the tribulation. The 70th week is past. The tribulation and second coming is still in the future.

Here is a link on the topic.

The 70 Weeks Are Messianic And Have Nothing To Do With Endtime Prophecy

Originally posted by packinmomma
I haven't read any posts claiming that the anti-christ saves.

That is what your doctrine teaches.

reply to post by packinmomma


Thats exactly the way I see it . Go man !

reply to post by truejew


If you remember the Jews were offered the Gospel first and most denied it . These Jews believe that they are still under the Law . The Gentile is subject only to the Gospel of Jesus Christ which did not come to change the law but was the acceptable sacrifice for sin . But the old Jew is still following the Law today.
Myself with my somewhat less than Godly wisdom believes that God knew that the Jews would not share the Gospel with the Gentile . So in effect God bypassed the Jew and offered the Gospel to the Gentile . Still God did not cast out the Jew for they were blinded in part to Christ and are the Natural Branches .

reply to post by SimonPeter


John 14:6-7 (KJV)
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


When Jesus said, "it is finished", He meant it is finished, not that there is one more week left.

reply to post by truejew


I am afraid you are mistaken about what Jesus meant . What Jesus was sent here to do was finished . The word had not been spread yet . Why would Jesus come down take flesh and sacrifice himself for it to end right then . You would not be saved because when the 70th week is over so is the Grace and Mercy that Jesus offered .
I don't know why you insist on being " The Real Jew " and feeling like you have somehow replaced the Jew . Romans tells us that God has not forgotten the Jew and not to boast against him . We are followers of Jesus Christ and that should be enough . I have heard of people who were Christians leaving their faith to become a Convert Jew .That is tragic because when Jesus deals with the Jews they will not be included and remain lost .

Have you not read Revelations or Matthew 24 or 2nd Thess chapter 2 .

reply to post by SimonPeter


I see nothing in those Scriptures that says the Antichrist will fulfill the following...


#1) To finish the transgression;
#2) To make an end of sins;
#3) To make reconciliation for iniquity;
#4) To bring in everlasting righteousness;
#5) To seal the vision and the prophecy;
#6) To anoint the Most Holy.


Plus all of that was already fulfilled by Jesus as Daniel prophesied that the Messieh would.

reply to post by truejew


Matthew 24 will tell you what is to come . Jesus gave us this message about what was to come in the latter days . The Abomination that Maketh Desolate and his coming . That has not happened yet . We know that the Great tribulation has not happened because there has never been a One World Government , A one world money like unto the Mark of the Beast and the Temple has not been rebuilt or Jesus come back . So the 70th week has not happened yet .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by truejew

 

Matthew 24 will tell you what is to come . Jesus gave us this message about what was to come in the latter days . The Abomination that Maketh Desolate and his coming . That has not happened yet . We know that the Great tribulation has not happened because there has never been a One World Government , A one world money like unto the Mark of the Beast and the Temple has not been rebuilt or Jesus come back . So the 70th week has not happened yet .

As I said before, the 70th week is not the same as the tribulation.

Everything that was prophesied to happen in the 70 weeks was already fulfilled by Jesus, not a future false messieh as your doctrine teaches.

reply to post by truejew


Explain to me Daniel 9 verse 27 "and he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week : and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate ....."
Did Jesus cause the sacrifice to stop because of overspreading abominations? That week is Seven years . When did Jesus stop the Sacrifices . When he ascended they were still sacrificing . Did he come back some other time ?
The Abomination is the AC setting in the rebuilt Temple as if he were God as in 2nd Thess chapter 2 .Is there 2 events to take away the Sacrifice ?