A Different View on Guns

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posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 07:53 PM
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How are we doing ATS friends

With the gun grabbing and attacks on the 2nd Amendment occurring currently with my fellow American ATS'ers I thought I'd let you guys know some fun facts about guns and gun ownership in Australia. Just so you American's don't get all the attention



I'll start with the law regarding gun ownership in Australia, the mass murder that caused the gun buyback and ban and how gun levels are currently back to the level pre mass murder incident.




Firstly, In Australia, the right to private gun ownership is not guaranteed by law. Also unlike the 2nd Amendment in the US of A we have no constitution allowing it as such. Probably because our history was colonial, not founded on war but founded on invasion after the British needed a new place to send convicts following the American Revolutionary War (well done by the way)


The legislation regarding guns and gun ownership in Australia I would say is more complex than the USA even with the extra controls coming into play which I don't necessarily agree with. Anybody interested in an in depth analysis of Australia's gun laws, and I MEAN IN DEPTH, you can have a peruse here at the ACT (Australian Capital Territories, where our capital Canberra is) Firearms Act of 1996 effective 12 December 2011 can see it here.ACT Firearm Act

Its 300 pages of text so only for those who may wish to view it, I know most won't but hey its there anyways!

Another page here summarizes the laws a bit more simpler. Guns in Australia

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Port Arthur Massacre 1996





On 28 April 1996 Martin Bryant murdered 35 people at Port Arthur in Tasmania: he injured 18 more. The Howard Coalition government acted swiftly, other political parties cooperated and the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) came about. Soon improved gun laws existed throughout Australia. The inventory of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns was greatly reduced, gun registration was made universal, an improved licensing system was introduced and gun storage demands improved.
source

I distinctly remember this time period because my father now deceased used to collect BB guns and owned a Winchester lever action 22 caliber. All of the BB guns had to be turned in because of their resemblance to Berretta pistols and the Rifle had to be stored in a hefty lock box, secured with ammunition and the rest of the goodies. (You'll be pleased to know, we still have the weapon, stored securely, cleaned regularly, with 1000 rounds of .22 Caliber Hollow Point Ammunition, don't ask me why Dad kept so many hollow points)

I'm not sure why Dad had so many guns, but we kept Ol Winny for sentimental value really. Moving on...

The buyback, post Port Arthur Massacre




Since the 1997 gun buyback, your chance of being a victim of gun violence has more than halved. Yet as this newspaper pointed out on Monday, the number of guns in Australia has increased by nearly one-fifth over the same period.


The simplest answer is that Australia's population is a fifth larger than it was in 1997. In reality, Australia has about as many guns per person as it did after the gun buyback. The only way you can conclude that the gun buyback has been undone is if to ignore a decade and a half of population growth.


To understand the policy success of the National Firearms Agreement, it's important to recognise precisely what happened. Alongside the gun buyback, what had been a patchwork of state and territory regulations were strengthened and harmonised. Self-loading rifles, self-loading shotguns and pump-action shotguns were banned. Firearm owners were required to obtain licences and register their weapons.
source

Now I don't think the dispute is that some form of gun control isn't a bad idea. Even those who embrace the 2nd Amendment wouldn't want even a simple .38 to get into the hands of some whack job. For the US, maybe the laws were fine as it is. Maybe the Forefathers DID NOT envisage AR-15's, scopes, .50 Caliber Sniper rifles or the array of powerful weaponry now available BUT, it seems it wasn't the point. The point was to keep who was in power on there toes because at any time, with enough support, the citizenry could deem you a threat and remove you. Not a bad idea.

For Australia, lacking such a gun culture this was not the issue. A knee jerk reaction to sate public opinion that something was being done is my interpretation of the action taken by our government.

Since then however, gun ownership is back to its original numbers, perhaps higher but as the graph shows the population has increased but it was always going to, this isn't my point.
The point is that Australians who wanted guns, imported them as we do most because we don't have any gun manufacturers here with much if any recognition. Most of our weapons would probably be imported from the US or Europe. The fact remains, people wanted more guns and they got them.

Still it seems, opinions are split but apparently the risk of being shot in Australia has been cut by half.

Estimates suggest there were 3.2 million firearms in Australia at the time of the Tasmanian tragedy, in which 35 people were killed and 23 injured.

Philip Alpers, an adjunct associate professor at the university's school of public health, said only time would tell what impact the restocking would have.
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''Australia's public health effort to reduce the risk of gun violence led the world,'' he said. ''After melting down a million guns, the risk of an Australian dying by gunshot fell by more than half. Plus, we've seen no mass shootings in 16 years,'' Professor Alpers said.
source


Its a different kettle of fish in Australia but it seems profoundly strange that so many massacres whether with you my American friends, Sandy Hook or Aurora have reports of a second gunman or suspect circumstances like we did in Port Arthur. It was massive news by the way and the biggest rampage in Australia's history..

It could well have been a false flag attack to rush in Draconian gun laws. Found this picture below which is interesting...




The image is a bit tongue in cheek but I can confirm the information about the 20 headshots. Not bad for a guy who admitted he wasn't a good shot. Seems very suspect and perhaps this is just another part of the saga of concocted civilian massacres to usher in new laws which hit good folks hard like my Dad, a legitimate weapons enthusiast and the general public. It's extremely difficult to obtain guns legally now, even with no convictions, police clearance etc.

If it was a ff attack, my conspiratorial side wonders if the USG "assisted".




posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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So was there a false flag in AU to confiscate the guns of the people? Did you ever wonder if the civil rights of people were harmed by gun control? If people can not protect themselves from larger or armed people with a firearm when attacked are their civil rights violated? That is my take on the subject. If you are disarmed will you be protected? Chances are they did not offer more protection when they disarmed people in AU.



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 08:52 PM
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I'm very skeptical of the Martin Byrant incident. Being able to read Auras i do not believe that he was remotely the person to do such a thing. His to innocent by nature.

And to talk it about being difficult to get firearms here!

Took me a year just to be able to get a paintball gun...

Because they're so dangerous!



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by yoursteppingonmytoes
 


That first pic of guns dumping from the back of a truck was a sad sight, friend!

Excellent OP! S&F

Yours (your country) is the model being copied in US today. This regime has sought to create its own ‘Port Arthur’ and they’ve repeated the cycle hoping one incident will be THE ONE. I don’t doubt for ONE MINUTE that the biggest recent shootings in US are manufactured.

Regardless, thank you for a glimpse into our future if people don’t wake the hell up.

Besides, who do they think they are going to take guns from in America??? It won’t be from me or the people I know. GOOD LUCK!!



edit on 13-3-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 09:19 PM
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I was never really aware of Australia's gun laws, as i live in soviet amerika where we are being gulag-ed as we speak, but just as you had pointed out the discrepancies in your shooter, we have the same issues with all of our shooters, as if they were MK ultra. I mean you can never put anything passed the gooberment, these freaks are capable of killing off the entire country if it meant the military industrial complex share holders could turn a profit.

but what we do know is that there is no government of any country in this world that can stop anyone from building or buying firearms, because as you know, where there is a will there is a way


guns aren't the problem....government is



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by endats01
 

I suppose it could be argued that the control measures and the new firearm laws themselves were the form of protection. I cannot give you a satisfactory answer if it was a ff but there was irregularities, reports of a second shooter and the precise nature of the murders.

Its not my right to own a weapon in Australia but it is in the US. I don't think civil rights were harmed here but because it's enshrined in the constitution I see Americans have a right to own a gun, any gun.
Here though its more of a privilege to own a weapon. Regardless we still have one, there is even a political party called Shooters & Fishers. The culture of guns aren't as prevalent and gun murders are low. But say for instance in a home invasion or B & E, our laws dictate you must use "equal or lesser force", if someone breaks into my house without a gun, we cannot, by law shoot them. Retarded....

Guns are not a big deal in murders outside of gang violence in Oz.
edit on 13-3-2013 by yoursteppingonmytoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by hoonsince89
 
He doesn't fit the profile really. But then again the last few US massacres perps didn't either. Its very odd.

Unfortunately I don't have your abilities
But it seems an intellectually disabled person may have been taken advantaged of. Just as most of the young men who "do" these things are typically disenfranchised youths, loners etc. The brutal accuracy of the murders is a huge sticking point with me.

A year for a paintball gun is ridiculous. Might as well modify it to shoot bullets. I have plenty of hollow points

edit on 13-3-2013 by yoursteppingonmytoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 
Thanks seabag

Glad you enjoyed it, macabre and disturbing as it is..

They melted over a million guns, mostly .22's. They didn't get ours mate! I should've posted a photo of the Winchester but my brother has the key hehe.

I hope all goes well for you guys in the US, I believe there is an agenda and I also think perhaps the US people are the only ones who can stop it. Thinking of you guys over there. Be safe.

That pic is cool
I would not want to mess with some of the paramilitaries and militias, enthusiasts etc in the US. Knowing there's still fighters and thinkers in the US is a small comfort, I'm going for the good guys at least



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 
Hey SPECULUM,

Yeah the laws are very complex and you can get it confiscated at any time, even with a license if you trip up the slightest. The law is very very strict.

The similarities between the circumstance are suspect hey.. Either we sent someone over there to help carry out the other shootings or we asked the USG for a "shooter". Meaningful coincidences are just that.. they mean something.

The government is the problem, they are gutless nannies over here who try to police everything. It does kinda of suck but things will come to a head soon.. There are still plenty of guns in circulation, I wouldn't mind a hand gun but the hassle is just too great and we already have a Winchester. Might as well just hang onto that.

I feel sorry for anyone who starts trouble on my street. Hollow points. Ouch



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by yoursteppingonmytoes
 

Re Australia....well you know society cant tolerate guns in the hands of those with "the criminal gene" (convict colony).



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by yoursteppingonmytoes
reply to post by SPECULUM
 
Hey SPECULUM,

Yeah the laws are very complex and you can get it confiscated at any time, even with a license if you trip up the slightest. The law is very very strict.

The similarities between the circumstance are suspect hey.. Either we sent someone over there to help carry out the other shootings or we asked the USG for a "shooter". Meaningful coincidences are just that.. they mean something.

The government is the problem, they are gutless nannies over here who try to police everything. It does kinda of suck but things will come to a head soon.. There are still plenty of guns in circulation, I wouldn't mind a hand gun but the hassle is just too great and we already have a Winchester. Might as well just hang onto that.

I feel sorry for anyone who starts trouble on my street. Hollow points. Ouch

hand guns are pretty simple to make, all you need is a barrel off of a 303 enfield and a milling machine and a lathe.....one enfield barrel will make 5 or 6 pistols. if you have a break over shotgun you can put barrel inserts in it to shoot any round, and after you shorten the stock and barrel to you preference, your in business


Seriously



an oil filter makes a really nice suppressor also



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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The fact that Australia's Constitution does not guarantee gun rights like our Second Amendment is another reason why the globalists want to establish a global government that will supercede individual nations' sovereignty. A global constitution will not allow civilian ownership of firearms.....so much for an "inalienable right" dont you think?
edit on 13-3-2013 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by CosmicCitizen
 
I'd trust a convict more than the Governments at this stage CC. Don't worry, there are still plenty of guns out there. As will happen in the US, the market will get driven FURTHER underground.

Inalienable rights? I didn't know there was such a thing. It seems rights are being washed away like dirty laundry. The firearm laws over here are too harsh. This is a preview of things to come in the US


We can always 3D print bigger magazines though, I should invest in a printer now and start selling extended magazines!

Anyways

I have my Winchester & Japanese Tanto swords in case someone gets in too close, I won't go down easy. Blood will be spilt.

edit on 13-3-2013 by yoursteppingonmytoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 
Very resourceful SPEC


I'm very s hi te at making things. I'm one of those muppets who needs the instructions when you have to put a table together. Haha

Not sure I could pull it off. I spose a 22 cal pistol would be good though seeing as I've got a lot of ammunition.

It'll be hard to source a barrel over here though. I'm going to assume you own a few custom pistols ?

edit on 13-3-2013 by yoursteppingonmytoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:58 PM
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you know with as many deadly toxic EVERYTHING in Australia you could easily get rid of the government without firing a single shot.....Can of Jackal juice works wonders



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by yoursteppingonmytoes
 



They melted over a million guns, mostly .22's. They didn't get ours mate! I should've posted a photo of the Winchester but my brother has the key hehe.

It’s better left concealed. You don’t want to show your cards. The old gun will still get the job done!





I hope all goes well for you guys in the US, I believe there is an agenda and I also think perhaps the US people are the only ones who can stop it. Thinking of you guys over there. Be safe.

Unfortunately, much like your country, many think this gun-grab is the best way to go. They should all research your country’s gun history and wake the hell up.

If critical thinking was hereditary we’d all be somewhat smart!



That pic is cool I would not want to mess with some of the paramilitaries and militias, enthusiasts etc in the US. Knowing there's still fighters and thinkers in the US is a small comfort, I'm going for the good guys at least


Some of us keep it real.


Many of us are Oath Keepers….actually, 20+ million of us…plus our friends and families (another 100+ million). We’ll be OK!



Many of us are DONE being lied to and misled. We won't submit to tyranny....



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 




If we lure them into the outback perhaps nature will fight alongside us. You're right, the bush can kill you quicker than a bullet in some places.Taipans and Brown, Snakes, Spiders, Stonefish! Lucky I'm in suburbia but I'm all out of Jackal juice SPEC


Hollow points and foul language will have to suffice!



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by yoursteppingonmytoes
reply to post by SPECULUM
 
Very resourceful SPEC


I'm very s hi te at making things. I'm one of those muppets who needs the instructions when you have to put a table together. Haha

Not sure I could pull it off. I spose a 22 cal pistol would be good though seeing as I've got a lot of ammunition.

It'll be hard to source a barrel over here though. I'm going to assume you own a few custom pistols ?

edit on 13-3-2013 by yoursteppingonmytoes because: (no reason given)


Ive had them all throughout my life. They really aren't as important to me as they once were, if i need one bad enough i'll either make one or take one off some unsuspecting fully armed gooberment clown.

a good old 22 caliber pellet gun barrel works really well for 22 cartridges and most bb pistols can shoot bbs into rim fire cartridges and set them off, i'd say one could thread one barrel to another and really stir the pot


177bb/22 rim fire the options are endless, and with a 3d printer only your imagination could imagine the possibilities...



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 

It’s better left concealed. You don’t want to show your cards. The old gun will still get the job done!

Good point seabag! Wait a minute, I think I just heard a knock at the door...



Unfortunately, much like your country, many think this gun-grab is the best way to go. They should all research your country’s gun history and wake the hell up.


Yeah the opinions are similar over here but because the culture wasn't as deep nobody really noticed. It was all headlines and new laws. People should've bought guns before the new laws, now its as hard as hell.
But it was kind of the reason I did the thread seabag I wanted to chime in on how bad our gun laws are because we've already been screwed over here. More people as you said in the US, need to wake up and smell the bs!


Some of us keep it real.

Many of us are Oath Keepers….actually, 20+ million of us…plus our friends and families (another 100+ million). We’ll be OK!


20million revolutionaries right there if needs be! Thanks for the vid watching it now! Hoo rah


I reckon I'd have a ball with some of the rec shooting over there, would love to come shoot some guns with some Americans


Be safe mate.
edit on 13-3-2013 by yoursteppingonmytoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by SPECULUM
 



177bb/22 rim fire the options are endless, and with a 3d printer only your imagination could imagine the possibilities...


Here here!

Can't wait to see whats in store in this arena. I haven't seen a thread yet on 3D weapons printing. Might be the next thread.

Limitless potential.






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