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Tax Prof: ObamaCare Tax Increases Are Double Original Estimate

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posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


time will show that this, like many other Obama initiatives will have to be recalled and his presidency will be remembered as one of complete failures.

Higher taxes......, when people can barely pay for food, rent, and electric......


Right.




posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 06:03 AM
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I've always been the guy that never goes to the doctor, never went to the hospital for stitches when I know I should have. If I'm forced to pay for this crap guess what I'm gonna do? Cough. Doctors visit. Sneeze. Doctors visit. Bad scratch. Hospital visit. I've had bad teeth for years but could never afford to have them fixed. Guess where I'm going first when the gubment is gonna pay?



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 06:16 AM
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Quality of life is challenging in many places and unemployment, while somehow better on the national scene, is running far into the double digits in many areas around the nation.


It's my honest belief that was the intention all along. You can listen to Obama's promises and his flowery speeches about helping the poor, but is actions speak much louder. His every move has driven this nation deeper in debt and damaged our way of life. These people, Obama, Polosi, Holder, just to name a few of the head rats, are bent on putting themselves on top, at the expense of everyone else. I keep hoping that this time, folks will see what a scumbag he really is. But my opinion of people is dropping fast. I consider most too stupid and willfully ignorant to take care of themselves. And that is why we are where we are.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 07:25 AM
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Things cost more in 2012 than they did in 2010? And people need a tax Prof to tell them this. Small wonder on how the GOP and Dems stay in business.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

As far as I am concerned insurance companies shouldn't even make a profit.


Profit is so evil, why shouldn't people just invest their time, effort, blood, sweat & tears for the greater good without expectations of compensation?

Speaking of which, how long have you worked for free?

Let me guess, you would if you didn't have to pay for your home, food, insurance, cable tv, internet, cell phone, vacations, hd televisions, vehicles, gasoline, electricity and beer?

Sounds to me like if you were handed everything you 'need' for free, you wouldn't have to work at all. Or feel compelled to. So, who would pay for all that? Other People! Thank God for them.

But what happens when we run out of Other People's money? Who pays for all the "Free" stuff no one should have to pay for?

Or maybe you feel that Health Insurance should be absorbed into the ever growing government bureaucracy? That would guarantee the exact opposite of profit, and efficiency; establishing wasteful, unmotivated govt bureaucrats who can't be fired in charge of 'helping' the population.

Think Department of Motor Vehicles multiplied to the nth power, on heavy narcotic sedation.

That's just a glimpse of the glorious socialist (dis)utopia collectivist dreamers wish to bring to America. It's nearly here already.

I prefer allowing free market competition. This is why Car Insurance is so affordable. Some company somewhere wants your business. Why keep insurance companies from doing the same?

1. Power and Control. 2. Unsustainability.

Leftists do all they can to hamper the free market, for the ability to declare "See? It doesn't work! Only More Government will solve this!"

In other words, break it and reveal that only by expanding government size, power and cost can this problem be solved. And say it with a straight face, knowing full well the appalling track record of the solution you're selling.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by ImTheGreatest
 


It wont wont work that way unfortunately, it will be like an 80/20
Co pay and rumor has it dental won't be covered so even if it
Is covered we would still have to come up with 20% of the cost
Which anyone who has ever been to the dentist knows
Could still be in the thousands, utterly worthless way to fix
The problem we had and oh yea will still have, I had my hopes
Up as well but the more I read the more this entire thing becomes
A nightmare waste of time.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Things cost more in 2012 than they did in 2010? And people need a tax Prof to tell them this. Small wonder on how the GOP and Dems stay in business.

Things cost more? I see.... So a HALF TRILLION dollar increase in projected costs after just two short years of existence is 'just higher costs over time'?

Well... If we'd had ANY honesty out of those who wrote this nightmare, I'm fairly sure that half a trillion difference in expenses would have given them considerably more headache in getting it passed. They were GOING to pass this right down everyone's throat. That was clear for all to see. Pelosi and her cartoon like over sized gavel.

We were lied to and screwed hard...and so many are still making excuses for the criminals who have screwed us. It's unbelievable to me at times ...just how far some will go to excuse the cheap losers on both sides of that isle who are destroying this nation we all love. It's happening right before our very eyes.

Half a trillion more...and it's a casual thing? That is why our nation is on the verge of collapse. Too many are putting straight party line politics and ideology before national SURVIVAL at this point. :shk:



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by sligtlyskeptical
 


I dont know about the rest of you but this is how my life went. Before Obamacare was a wet dream, my yearly premium went up about 3-5% a year. After Obama care has passed, I’ve see 20% last year and 40% this year increase to my premium with a higher deductible.

By my Measurements, Obamacare is a disaster and I was a lot better off without it. We were covered 2 years ago if we got pregnant, would have only cost $100. Now my wife and I have to pay $10,000 for delivery and prenatal care if we had a baby. We physically can’t afford to have a baby now. You know how messed up that is


All in the pursuit of fairness I guess. Only the wealthy can have kids at this rate, a “luxury” we can’t afford.
edit on 14-3-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

Do you think the poor or "working poor" understand the real implications of it all? I don't.



Please use the Search function at the top right of your screen.

That little nugget of propaganda has been soundly debunked on these boards.




posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Things cost more in 2012 than they did in 2010? And people need a tax Prof to tell them this. Small wonder on how the GOP and Dems stay in business.

What do they call it when that happens?
Inflation?

I haven't really noticed inflation mentioned in the media.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 

Yeah, Inflation is the yet un-named Hurricane of record size which sits just over the horizon. When it gets here in a meaningful way I think we may look back on some of these high projections as the good old days when things were cheap.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


The Joint Committee on Taxation recently released a 96 page report on the tax provisions associated with Affordable Care Act. The report describes the 21 tax increases included in Obamacare, totaling $1.058 trillion – a steep increase from initial assessment, according to the Tax Prof Blog. The summer 2012 estimate is nearly twice the $569 billion estimate produced at the time of the passage of the law in March 2010.
Source



I don't think that report shows what you think it does...or more accurately...what your source "Tax Prof Blog" thinks it does.

the "economicpolicyjournal.com" / Tax Prof Blog that you are citing...as legitimate as it sounds...is run/written by Robert Wenzel.

Robert Wenzel has been a fringe Obama-hater for many years......

Just ONE of hundreds of articles from the "Tax Prof"

Is Obama a CIA Controlled Manchurian President?
Robert Wenzel, Economic Policy Journal aka "Tax Prof"

According to Wenzel, the answer is YES!


lewrockwell.com...

Not buying his take on the report, given his endless list of articles celebrating extreme dishonesty for political purposes, his lack of credentials to claim such things, etc.

edit on 14-3-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 14-3-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 14-3-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Things cost more in 2012 than they did in 2010? And people need a tax Prof to tell them this. Small wonder on how the GOP and Dems stay in business.


He is NOT a "Tax Prof"...he is just another fringe Obama-hater that has figured out how to make a buck BSing.

See my post above.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

You probably need to read a bit further down the thread ...as your argument has already been made and answered.

It turns out, "Tax Prof" was really just reproducing data and the whole physical chart as originally created by the staff of the House Ways and Means Committee. They produced everything there based on CBO data. So, I'm thinking the effort to check into all that actually strengthened the basis of the thread, not lessened it.

It's been interesting to look more into though.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Money, money, money, the bail out to the health insurance companies is no going to be cheap, so I will again say since the Obama monstrosity was passed WE TOLL YOU SO, but nobody listen, all those cuts is for the implementation and give away of tax dollars for obama private insurance pimps because subsidized health care for the so call poor aka Medicaid is not cheap.

and soon get ready for amnesty, millions more to suck up the welfare system and Medicaid.
and where all that money is coming from
edit on 14-3-2013 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Indigo5
 

You probably need to read a bit further down the thread ...as your argument has already been made and answered.

It turns out, "Tax Prof" was really just reproducing data and the whole physical chart as originally created by the staff of the House Ways and Means Committee. They produced everything there based on CBO data. So, I'm thinking the effort to check into all that actually strengthened the basis of the thread, not lessened it.

It's been interesting to look more into though.



Thanks rabbit, found your post and the W&M link.

Apparently the descrepency centers on time, inflation and other methods of calculation.

While the original CBO report on Obamacare was calculated for the first few years...2010 through 2013 I think.

House Ways and Means...admittedly a GOP driven committee headed by Rep. Camp..ran the numbers for 2010-2022....and used some sketchy math..The 1 Trillion dollar claim does have some veracity...but only under some certain conditions and assumptions, and when the time horizon is expanded and doesn't effect hose making under 250k.

See Wapo and Forbes..

www.forbes.com... em/

www.washingtonpost.com... 1e2-8d72-dc76641cb8d4_blog.html



edit on 14-3-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


My husband and I do not make even half of that amount and our insurance premiums already double before elections and this month will double what is already been double, if is wasn't because is now halted in congress as Obama administration keep hacking the military and retirees benefits.

Our drug prescriptions have already triple since last year after Obamacare care was approved.

I guess you will have to be so poor with no income and never had an insurance to know exactly what is going on since Obama monstrosity was passed.

Is going to get a lot worst as money is becoming short to finance it.


I was one of the few along with others that dissected Obamacare back when it was nothing but the infant concoction of the big insurance companies pimps lobbyist that wrote it.

Is plenty of threads from back then in ATS for you to see how much time and effort we put on that bill here to uncover the bailout truth.

But still nobody listened.

A bailout it is and that is what Obamacare will become at the expenses of tax payers for the big insurance companies mobsters after all their wrote most of it including the mandate.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

This is what makes debating with you interesting. Your logic is maddening at times, but almost always logical.

Yes.. It's a Republican committee chairman and I agree that has to be taken into account in these times of partisan showmanship for the press and public. I also notice you don't give that undue weight and neither do I. Just noted...

Also, the CBO is a data in/data out agency. Agreed there too and I know by your history, you know the reports and system well enough to appreciate what that means as much as I do. Garbage in gets garbage out as much as the reverse is true for quality on CBO reports.

I tend to say this one is fairly center to the accuracy line because the claims would have everyone from Pelosi to Obama himself publicly furious and talking about it if they were too far off base. I think we can both agree there too. The numbers are likely fudged to the degree they can be in favor of the interests of the authors, but only so much.

As for the dates someone else got fixated on. Well, that's again where it shows you've spent time in these reports and such in your own experience. The first and second date ranges aren't 100% apples to apples, but they are as close as numbers and economics allow comparisons to come for this kind of thing, so it's the standard anyone ever gets, in what I see.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Indigo5
 


My husband and I do not make even half of that amount and our insurance premiums already double before elections and this month will double what is already been double


Literally...that level of arbitrary increase in premiums...price guaging... is Illegal now under Obamacare.
The insurance company must file with Health and Human services and explain the increase and recieve approval.

I don't need your personal details, but if you tell me your provider and geography, I can find details as H&HS keeps an online databse of approvals and denials and reasons for Companies looking to jack up rates.



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
You do realize that under single payer the government would not have administered the health care? It just would have put everyone into one group policy run by the for-profit insurance companies it was more about getting mass so premiums could go down.



This is not true! The Government cant run anything efficiently!

All one must do to see this is take a look...at....

Social Security
Fannie Mae
Freddie Mac
Medicare
Medicaid
Cash for Clunkers
Fair Housing....

on and on ad nausem.....

what is your agenda in promoting such false claims???
edit on 14-3-2013 by burntheships because: (no reason given)






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