The Main Issue with New Liberalism

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posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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If you think about it, New Liberalism is all about destroying and antagonizing any source of income and trying to make do with rationing. IF this current train of thought continues, there will be less money and more intense rationing.

In order to have a system that is healthy for its constituents, there needs to be an outside source of income that can be taxed in order to pay for social programs. No, government jobs are not going to provide any taxable income because the government is paying for them in the first place.

At the moment, we have the conservatives with their ability to PRODUCE things, and the liberals, with their ability to TAX conservative organizations to get money to pay for needed social programs, and their ability to RATION.

It is completely idiotic for the liberals to tear down the very organizations that provide them their money.

As a final note to that, a space program is ESSENTIAL to a continued human existence, because it provides us with enough resources to solve a lot of problems, including environmental ones.

And NO, the dirt and sand on a lifeless mining planet or asteroid does not have feelings that can be hurt by the machinery.

edit on 10-3-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-3-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-3-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-3-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by darkbake
 


And yet for some wierd reason high-tax, high-regulation countries and states have high incomes...

Fun little fact about the austrian school of economics:
Ludwig Mises was a monarchist. Otto Habsburg was a friend of the Mises institute, and Mises wrote at least one Letter advising Habsburg how he might get Austria back after WWII.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by narwahl
reply to post by darkbake
 


And yet for some wierd reason high-tax, high-regulation countries and states have high incomes...


So do low/no tax, low regulation countries such as Monaco, Aruba, UAE, Macau, and Hong Kong. You're arguing a chicken or the egg argument here.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by darkbake
If you think about it, New Liberalism is all about destroying and antagonizing any source of income and trying to make do with rationing. IF this current train of thought continues, there will be less money and more intense rationing.

At the moment, we have the conservatives with their ability to PRODUCE things, and the liberals, with their ability to TAX conservative organizations to get money to pay for needed social programs, and their ability to RATION.

Your post appears to be founded on some fallacies.

The current Liberal view on taxes is we need to tax the super wealthy more. The fact is many corporations not only don't pay taxes, but get paid taxes!
Facebook received 400 MILLION dollars, nearly half a billion dollars. That's about a -40% tax rate!
They say their tax rate is 35%, but when you look at all the deductions, they get PAID money oftentimes.

This whole idea of yours that conservatives are the producers in this country and liberals are lazy people who mooch off of others is a complete lie.

You need to be careful. Your viewpoints seem to be the product of corporate propaganda.

When I look at ALL of the numbers, not cherry picked ones, it is evident to me that something needs to be done with the tax code.


I'm disappointed with this thread....I thought it was going to be a good analysis of the problems with Liberals today.
Instead it's just the same old corporate propaganda.


edit on 10-3-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by darkbake
 


First of all, to put a label on people, whether it be liberal, conservative, or whatever, is to draw a line on divide. There are far too many complex issues that involve people to be drawing divides. There are things I have a conservative opinion on, and there are things I have a liberal opinion on. Finger pointing and prejudices simply fuel the fires of divide.

Once the prejudices are put aside, people have to come to realize that 'big business' in America has grown to be a powerful enough of an influence in our culture and government, that is has earned an equal or greater vote of our elected officials. Does your beliefs, as they apparently read, condone what Walmart or Coca Cola, feels to be important to your well being? I'd like to stick to the standards of 'We The People,' rather than "We The Money.' Maybe rationing money is viewed by some to be an answer to some things, or maybe abolishing businesses from having a vote is a possible direction to proceed towards. Either way, labeling a political viewpoint when hundreds, if not thousands, of variables are at stake is a poor starting point if you ask me.

Change is something I believe is one wish that holds in the views of all Americans. How about we concentrate on what each of us can do individually to spark change, and quit worrying about who is voicing their change. And, no, who does not include business.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 


My statement will be adressed to not only you Ghost but to darkbake as well.

First off, the Democratic party today is far from being "Liberal"! By their own admissions and the organaizations that support them, they now call themselves "PROGRESSIVES". By their actions, they show a tendency towards not only the freedom of speech, (ie political correctness) but a tendency towards everything that is against freedom and a persons right to choose what is best for them and their family and the way of life.

Thus I proclaim that we stop calling those on the left and whom support them liberals!
Why not call them Progressives? That IS what they claim to be, is it not? So perhaps true Democrats should divide their party into two?


The current Liberal view on taxes is we need to tax the super wealthy more. The fact is many corporations not only don't pay taxes, but get paid taxes!
Facebook received 400 MILLION dollars, nearly half a billion dollars. That's about a -40% tax rate!
They say their tax rate is 35%, but when you look at all the deductions, they get PAID money oftentimes.


I agree with what you say here Ghost, but who is supporting this? Yep! The same guy who said he was AGAINST it before he got elected! The one and only Obama! He claimed how he was for the working class while supporting and EVEN elevating these corporation and banking heads into positions of Czars in his current administration.

I find it interesting that you brought up Facebook! Seems to me that our current administration not only has a very good relationship with that company, but GM as well! Or maybe it is GE......


This whole idea of yours that conservatives are the producers in this country and liberals are lazy people who mooch off of others is a complete lie.


Agreed! Nothing more than a perfect example of how the ruling class uses "divide and conquer tactics" to keep us fighting amongst each other over which team is superior, while they collaborate to further enslave us!


You need to be careful. Your viewpoints seem to be the product of corporate propaganda.


Agreed to a point! Are those who support the current administration not victims of that same propaganda? Are those who against the current administration not also victims? AGAIN, "DIVIDE AND CONQUER"!


When I look at ALL of the numbers, not cherry picked ones, it is evident to me that something needs to be done with the tax code.
I'm disappointed with this thread....I thought it was going to be a good analysis of the problems with Liberals today.
Instead it's just the same old corporate propaganda.


Yep, the tax code is most certainly a problem! Why can't it be fixed for an average person to understand it? I'll tell you why? The same as our laws are not understandable, so are our tax laws. It is designed that way for a reason. The wealthy can afford the attorneys to prevent them from being arrested, while the poor and middle class cannot! Why is that?

I will again repeat, the Democratic Party, isn't liberal in it's current power structure. It has evolved into a PROGRESSIVE movement, that is FAR from being liberal!










edit on 10-3-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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The main issue with Liberals today is that they don't have a spine, they are constantly compromising to conservatives. We need another FDR who is not afraid to stand up to corporations and does not compromise to anyone.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 



The main issue with Liberals today is that they don't have a spine, they are constantly compromising to conservatives. We need another FDR who is not afraid to stand up to corporations and does not compromise to anyone.


You are the PERFECT example of what I was talking about when I mentioned Progressives!! You complain about the problem (banks and corporations) while rabidly supporting a president who said he was against it and has PROVEN quite the opposite!

The hell with compromise, it is OUR way or the highway!

You have proven that the Constitution of the United States of America means nothing to you!

Welcome to the PROBLEM, and the reason our country has gone to hell!

edit on 10-3-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 





You need to be careful. Your viewpoints seem to be the product of corporate propaganda.


Really don't disagree with anything the op said private business funds this country corporate welfare ie social programs do nothing to introduce new wealth in to the economy.

Basically the liberal argument is " tax the rich and corporations" so the "little people" can go out and buy more corporate products which is what they do instead of investing that income to become self sufficient introducing new wealth and raising to the upper classes.

The biggest problem of liberal ideology is they never seek to make millionaires or billionaires, they do everything to destroy them.
edit on 10-3-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Although I don't totally agree with you Neo on this point. What I do agree with, is that the Progressives most definately feed off of creating victims, versus trying to do something to help them better their lives.....
edit on 10-3-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 


The rich,corporations,banks.wall street are all evil and yet they employ people,they lend money, they make all the things they "must have", and they must be controlled.

Suicide by government is what it really is because they are never satisfied they want more "regulation" more taxation they want more power and control to make "life easier".

Simple fact life aint ever been easy, nor will it ever be easy honest anyone who thinks government is the solution to their "problems" is selling ice water to eskimos the sad thing is they will never see it.
edit on 10-3-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 


Actually the liberals r the ones that support crony capitalism. They love to write laws n taxes to punish the free market yet give tax breaks n subsidies to goverment insiders for a upper hand to monopolize the economy.

U have to have lower taxes n smaller goverment so everyone can compete in a level playing field, especially to compete w the insiders that work w government. Otherwise the private market would go out of business competing w insiders that don't pay taxes n get the stimulus.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



The rich,corporations,banks.wall street are all evil and yet they employ people,they lend money, they make all the things they "must have", and they must be controlled.

Suicide by government is what it really is because they are never satisfied they want more "regulation" more taxation they want more power and control to make "life easier".

Simple fact life aint ever been easy, nor will it ever be easy honest anyone who thinks government is the solution to their "problems" is selling ice water to eskimos the sad thing is they will never see it.


Agreed! Again to a certain point!


The corporations DO in fact employ many people, but government officials, (thru lobbying) should not be part of who they employ!

Do you think facebook should have to pay taxes?? Just using that as one of many corporations who DO NOT.

There is a balance to Capitalism that needs to be put in check for it to work. My government has pretty much proven to me that they serve the corporations more so than the will of WE THE PEOPLE. I say that in a manner that the government should NOT be creating ridiculous laws that PREVENTS small businesses from being able to compete with HUGE Corporations!



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 





Do you think facebook should have to pay taxes?? Just using that as one of many corporations who DO NOT.


Well since facebook much like most other evil corporations were started with a dream and a hell of a lot of hard work, then had to be usable and acceptable to become the "success" it has.

They lost millions on a gamble that paid off most never pay off don't really like facebook myself but here is the thing:

Big news on Facebooks refund anyone who gets a refund means they were paying taxes.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Well since facebook much like most other evil corporations were started with a dream and a hell of a lot of hard work, then had to be usable and acceptable to become the "success" it has.

They lost millions on a gamble that paid off most never pay off don't really like facebook myself but here is the thing:

Big news on Facebooks refund anyone who gets a refund means they were paying taxes.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 





So are you saying that it is okay to tax the workers (slaves) but not the corporations who are making RECORD profits? You do realize that the Corporations you are defending have made record profits the past few years while it appears the working class has become the same needy class that you claim to be the problem in our country?


2 things that always get left out of that comment:

1. the biggest richest corporations are multinational who are that successful because they are mutli national which means they have broken the chains of the US federal government and they are thriving.

2. that cash is in fiat currency that continually gets devalued .

The largest employers in this country is small business that are struggling and if they could ever escape the chains that they have been put in people would see an economic boom in this country that has never been seen before.




Why not support the small businesses who actually create the jobs in this country?


I do suport small business since every one of them are all corporations which is why i support the free market and a free market can only exist in the absence of government action.

That government action agian is what is destroying them.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



2 things that always get left out of that comment:

1. the biggest richest corporations are multinational who are that successful because they are mutli national which means they have broken the chains of the US federal government and they are thriving.

2. that cash is in fiat currency that continually gets devalued .

The largest employers in this country is small business that are struggling and if they could ever escape the chains that they have been put in people would see an economic boom in this country that has never been seen before.


But are they not also successful because of their power over our D/R government representatives? I agree, that they are multi national and VERY powerful, but just as an example to you, Kraft Macaroni and Cheese in the UK, uses natural dies while the same Mac and Cheese in the US uses dies derived from petroleum! So due to the government of the UK and their STANDARDS of what their people eat compared to Kraft USA who chooses to sell a product that can be harmful to the people whom consume it, how does that fare as to defending a Multi national corporation? I am trying to show you how lobbyists and Corporations are not the honest hard working citizens fighting for the American dream as you portray them to be.

As far as fiat currency goes, who benefits from it? Not us citizens, but the same Corporations that you are claiming as an example of the American dream......Hell, Neo, just look at how our D/R government has propped up the banks at the expense of the American tax payers.

At least we agree that it is the small businesses that are the backbone and strength of our country. Well, that is until they get bought up by some multi national corporation who feels their profits are being threatened by a small businness who uses good ingredients and thus they buy them out......and that happens all the time!



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 





I am trying to show you how lobbyists and Corporations are not the honest hard working citizens fighting for the American dream as you portray them to be.


So no matter what corporations are evil!

Heard this song and dance so many times, and it's the people who are the subject of this thread.

Always corporations, and lobbyists no matter what.

I don't care what a corporation does, I don't care how much they make the only people who make me buy their products is the main issue with "liberalism".

Congressman are just "victims", the people are just victims of those evil corporations, and lobbyists.

Feel free to have the last word



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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It's so Sad


It really blows me away that there is still a liberal vs conservative argument here on a site with the motto "Deny Ignorance". Being "Cheerleaders" for either of the corrupt puppet organisations is so fox or msnbc.




edit on 10-3-2013 by NeverMind2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by NeverMind2013
 


NeverMind, I was going to mention this. The only thing that the political divide does is force us to think that issues that are unrelated are related in some way. It keeps us from being able to look at each issue individually.
edit on 10-3-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-3-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)





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