Am I bad ?

reply to post by HelenConway


I believe it all boils down to love and understanding vs hate and ignorance. If every human being in the world loved you as you love your child and if we eliminated the ignorance of moral dogmas, we would have no evil.

People often espouse having a balance between good and evil because they believe it is the same as Yin-Yang or light and dark. It is not. Not even close. Though you may need a balance between light and dark, Yin and Yang, male and female, you do not need a balance of love and hate or good and evil. Light, dark, good, and evil are all mutually exclusive concepts.

So, in short, if you are even asking the question and trying to love us all by not harming us, you are definitely not "bad". Thanks for being one of the good guys.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by HelenConway

 

In idea I agree with you. We should all face our adversities, but it goes a lot deeper than that. It is at the very core of our being. We seek concepts and once we have one we will try to hang on to it. Only if a new concept is found to improve us, will we even allow an old concept to be challenged. It's a mechanism of evolution.

But at a spiritual level over the years I have found it really quite easy to distinguish - pro life v anti life and by that I mean the life force, even though I find this hard to adhere to in this plane, which is why I think I may be bad.

Intellectually I articulate what i think is right and wrong, but my gut knows - as above, which is which.

The problem I think is that so many of us are shades of many levels of good and bad, pro and anti life, destruction and growth, We seek to present ourselves in one way but really the truth is the turmoil within.

Until we clear our inner turmoils and emotional storms and hurts we are sort of stuck - and some people are not even aware they have these underlying 'issues' They think they are their body.

I recognise that I get hurt easily and close my heart and back away from difficult people or people who seek to intentionally or not hurt me.

This means as my sensitivity grows that there are less and less people that I want to spend time with.

A good person - would not clam up, they would be soft hearted and forgiving - I can forgive at a distance but find when in close proximity to certain people - the emotional storm within is unleashed.

So I do agree with you and I thank you for your thoughts, but do you think 'concept' is a mind thing, thereby it is a cover that fails to recognise the really source of energy that is blocked from flowing within us ?

reply to post by Cuervo


Thank you cuervo your post was really helpful and it has made me think - in fact I am going away to think about it now.

The way this question is formulated can actually lead to some wrong conclusions in my opinion.
"I am bad?" or for that matter "I am good?" implies an absolute, unchanging and clearly defined state of being. Like "I am a man", or "I am a woman".
We are not like that. We are a dynamic mix of feelings, moods, concepts and intentions, and our actions will automatically reflect that.Sometimes we're good and sometimes we're evil. Sometimes we don't care also. Even the most kind and loving persons can hurt someone in a way or another, intentionally or not; even the worst criminals may have a soft spot in their heart for a dog or for a family member. We will always do a mix of bad things and good things, no matter how much we try to avoid that.

So in this respect, I think we should judge every action in its specific context, and not the person; If I did ten bad things today, and only one good deed, I still won't think I'm a bad person. Because tomorrow the situation can change, and I can have the chance to save someone's life, and everything will look different. And yet, I won't think I'm a good person, because next I can run over someone with my car, or someone can annoy me and I'll snap....and so on and so on. So 'I am bad?' is never what I ask myself. The questions I am asking myself are: could I have done better? did it helped someone? could I have avoided that? is there something I can improve in this situation?

I think that the way to go is to consider every action, every intent, every person implied in that situation, and also very important, the possibility we have to do something good. Even small gestures of kindness can be of great importance, a smile, a kind word, we can't always save the world. And frankly, most of the time we don't have the possibility to do that, to save lives, to end the poverty, to take care of endangered animals and so on. Sometimes, no matter how much we try, there is nothing we can do.

Beside that, the idea of "good" and "bad" is a very personal concept, mostly borrowed from others, or built on personal feelings. I know a lot of people who feed their dogs sweets every time they ask. It may seem a kind and nice thing to do, out of love for their pet; but the on the long run will ruin that dog's health and cause it a lot of suffering.

We don't always know what is good or bad for others, we project our own desires and needs unto them, and then try to fulfill them. I would say that an action that helped someone in any way, that made someone, including myself, a little happier is a good thing, even if on the grand scale of things my idea of good doesn't fit theirs. As long as the good is greater than the bad, as long as it's not hurting others. For example, if a believer friend of mine needs to be reassured that god loves him, I will remind him that even if I personally don't believe in god. if it makes him feel good, and doesn't hurt no one, why not?

For me, an action is good or bad only by the effect it has on the people I interact with or on my environment, or on myself for that matter. Drinking is bad not because someone told me so, but because it doesn't do me any good, so I don't drink alcohol.

My advice is try to take life as it comes at you, and in every situation to consider all the factors involved, and to do more good than bad. As the song says, don't congratulate yourself too much, and don't condemn yourself too much either. Try to accept the good and the bad in you, and in each of us. Every new moment is a new chance to change something; and the decision is ours. The concepts are not important, only the way our existence affects the existence of others, of this world.

reply to post by WhiteHat


thank you whitehat again lots for me to think about a few questions though.

But how do you know you are doing good or bad. I know obvious ways but what about in my situation where I would rather spend time alone then risk mixing with my family who hurt me so much through their ostracism and scapegoating - what have I done, nothing really they just do not like me and they are very nasty but to each other they think they are lovely.

So am I bad in that situation for not meekly going along with their wishes and sitting quietly in the corner and preferring to isolate from them or are they bad for their cruel rejection?

reply to post by HelenConway


Helen Good and Bad exists if you have a code of morality. If a person doesnt have a moral code then good and bad can only be measured by how they feel when confronted with situations; some of which they may find themself as a direct participant in.

For example, a prostitute may not see her trade as good or bad but feels ok making the money for her services.
Another example a person may have no religious inclinations of what good or bad behaviour is but may feel bad inside watching a 6 oclock news story of muslims rebels kiling a christian aid worker.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by WhiteHat

 

thank you whitehat again lots for me to think about a few questions though.

But how do you know you are doing good or bad. I know obvious ways but what about in my situation where I would rather spend time alone then risk mixing with my family who hurt me so much through their ostracism and scapegoating - what have I done, nothing really they just do not like me and they are very nasty but to each other they think they are lovely.

So am I bad in that situation for not meekly going along with their wishes and sitting quietly in the corner and preferring to isolate from them or are they bad for their cruel rejection?

No, you're definitely not bad for being what you are, and not what other people expect from you.
You see, making someone happy it always should include you, or should come with the condition that it hurts no one else, including you. There is no glory in suffering in situations like these. You have the same right to be happy just like anybody else. Would your suffering make them happier? I don't think so. It would make you happier? No way. So what would be the point? It would probably make you a "good person' in their eyes, but it will not be a good thing for anyone involved. Is not like you'd donate a kidney to save someone's life; you save nothing by suffering their behavior, only further hurt yourself. That's how I know if something is good or bad.

If someone's company is hurting you, or is dragging you down spiritually, just leave. Easy to say, I know, but think about this. If your family members would be drug addicts, let's say, would you become one also just to conform their standards, to make them feel you belong? No way.
It's not a sacrifice worth making.

Just the same I don't see them as necessarily bad for being what they are. That's their level at the moment, and probably in their own point of view they do a "good" thing. There is no other option for them at this given moment, they don't know of a higher way. Just like a shark doesn't kill because it's evil, but because that is it's stronger instinct, and the only option it have. He doesn't know compassion, so you can't blame him for cruelty. But a shark can also mate, and can be "loving" with it's own kind ( I imagine at least.) We project concepts like these, good or evil, cruel or compassionate on specific actions, but it means nothing, really. The only thing that matters is the outcome of an action.

So you're not a shark, and what they see as normal is cruelty for you; how can be a bad thing to remove yourself from the shark pool? Is only the natural course of things, even if they are your "family". Is the notion of family more real, more powerful than the suffering they cause you? It justifies it? Are you afraid you'll be left all alone in this world? They make you feel guilty and you believe it? Is the "right thing" in their eyes more important than what you feel in your heart? Questions only you can answer, and the answers will show you the way..

It not means that people like these will not change. We all change, we all learn and evolve in a way or another, but not at the same pace. You do what your heart tells you to do. Be happy in your own way, with your own kind of people, that's the minimum you can do in this life. There's at least one person you can help in this situation: yourself, so this is a good thing. That's the only way you can keep evolving and mature, by being at peace with yourself. Give yourself this chance and leave behind what should be left behind.

When someone hurts me I try to always remember that people are not bad, just ignorant; and for them, their action are totally justified just like my actions are justified for me. This makes situations like these a lot easier. On the bottom line there is no good or bad per se; is all relative to the person looking at it. And if I cannot change things for better, why should I stay there in the first place?

reply to post by HelenConway


There is only one truth by which all truths originated. Find the creator of that truth and build your ethics from his lessons, as he is the only one who can truly judge what is good or bad. If you are unable to determine what your creator thinks is good or bad, in regards to a true dilemma, then do nothing when you are faced with said dilemma. Let your descendants choose what is good, as they may have better means of solving the dilemma. If you do nothing then you cannot have done something wrong, thus everyone's descendants will not evolve into something unwanted by the creator. (I don't want any more rainbow offerings, if you know what I mean.)

Think of yourself as a walking talking concept communicator who is having problems figuring out which concepts to communicate. Don't think of yourself as a bad person just because you cannot solve whatever conflicting concepts you have. And again, there is no such thing as wrong/bad or right/good unless the creator says otherwise. Moreover, your intention decides if you are bad, not your actions.

In conclusion:
Find the creator and do as he says. When all else fails: Pray until you receive an answer, if you do not receive an answer, keep praying.

And a concept is an idea of something. Think of it as instructional code.


Above explained:

You are energy that has been evolving since the creation of energy itself, and because of that, your mind behaves as an evolving concept producer. Your mind, like all minds before you, have been learning new concepts in order to become what the creator wants.

The emotional turmoil you feel is produced when a mind is having difficulty selecting which concept is the best concept to use.(your energy wants to become something better and so it creates guilt when you do not do as your energy thinks you should).

The way you, and all of creation, acts and thinks, are literally controlled by what your ancestors accepted as good. And when I say ancestors, I mean way back to when we were lesser evolved than a [unknown]. And when I say good, I mean the best choice between multiple things. A choice that will make your descendants become the desired outcome that evolution has been striving for all along.

To reiterate that for you:
The way evolution really works is by finding the best concept that helps itself progress into becoming whatever evolution is striving for, and then reproducing that concept by communicating it to other energy.

And most of the above is my personal philosophy. It came from prayer, observation, prayer, logic, prayer, critical thinking, and prayer.

Unless you are the creator of something then you have no authority on what is wrong or right with said creation.

Some good links to my understanding of creation (work in progress):
Link, Link, Link, Link, Link

And yes I am making it up as I go along, because I must. Humanity has no unifying theory of everything, that actually makes sense, so I am making my own as I observe.

reply to post by WhiteHat


thank you whitehat that really really helps

reply to post by Bleeeeep


Thanks bleeeeep - you sound as if you are very devout. I wish I had your faith.

reply to post by HelenConway


i only read your OP so far helen..

and you are not bad, just a filthy, pinko, lettuce-bothering hippy

ETA: nice op btw, and SnF... unfortunately i have been on some serious minded threads the past couple of days, i had to return to being a bit of a twerp at some point

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by HelenConway

 

i only read your OP so far helen..

and you are not bad, just a filthy, pinko, lettuce-bothering hippy

ETA: nice op btw, and SnF... unfortunately i have been on some serious minded threads the past couple of days, i had to return to being a bit of a twerp at some point

edit on 11-3-2013 by skalla because: (no reason given)

Hi skalla - does that mean you think I am a big hippy ?

reply to post by HelenConway


it would be ungentlemanly to speculate on a lady's size, i was just enjoying the peace and love in your opening post ... i'm a filthy hippie of sorts myself

reply to post by HelenConway

Am I bad ?

Yes. Now go to your room.

_________________________________

Seriously, good and bad needs a reference. You measure how tall you are based on how far away the top of your head is to the floor.

Without using the floor, we'd only have each other to judge how tall we were. So you may be taller than person A, yet be shorter than person B. It's arbitrary when you try to measure that way.

To determine good or bad, everyone should use the same reference point.

reply to post by beezzer


cheeky blooming rabbit

reply to post by AthlonSavage


so you do not believe in good v evil you believe that moral values are relative ?

I find the description you wrote of your experience in determining good and bad sound exactly like emotion to me?
_and are you expressing that you feel thought/mind is the "enemy" in a sense, to that? That it is untrustworthy as guide, because it sometimes opposes this "gut feeling"?

I ask because I have a similar sensation which I believe to be simply my (very useful) automatic survival program.
It stimulates production of hormones according to the perception of threat or danger to my life. It causes me to feel emotion in response.

The problem I personally have is that it sometimes creates an association of threat or danger based upon my thoughts and not on real experience, not even on anscestral experience (such as the fear of certain dangerous animals, like snakes, which can be due to evolution).

I mean things that I think or believe are a threat to me, my body will react to.

THis is exerbated by my mirror neurons, which don't separate self-other- if I see another beign have something happen to them I judge as bad (dangerous) my body reacts with the same hormones as if it was ME!

I think also that this problem can be common to many people, and they might have a reaction to another based not on real threat, but on their thoughts and beliefs...... and it can be possible some people react that way to you or something you do, and come to the conclusion that-
she must be "bad".


I offer that as a potential explaination especially because, in the scope of mind vs. body (a very common conflict) many people consciously trust one more than the other. Just as you feel your body knows the truth and your head and reason tends to make that less clear,
I meet people everyday (especially women, for some reason...) who have that distrust of mind and actually have a hostile reaction to anyone who even LOOKS like they might be guided by reason and thinking rather than emotion.

there are a lot of people who feel the same way about the body! There are a lot who trust only the mind and reason to uncover truth, and feel the body leads one astray... and can put one in danger....it is the body and it's emotional messages that is "bad".

If you come across people like that, and they pick up that you are using your emotions and body as guide, they could be projecting upon you their own mistrust and judgement of their body and emotions?

This kind of conflict often gets projected outward and enacted with others.
Just an idea.

(I personally tend to keep distance and stand back from people who are guided by emotion- though I do not judge them "bad" I think they can be explosive and unpredictable, more prone to hurting others on accident, the way a scared horse might).

reply to post by Bluesma


thank you for taking the time to explain that bluesma - it was a really good read and makes sense. I have never thought of that before - but I think you are correct. Lots of food for thought

______________________

After reading o.p. I just wish that there were more people as
you since it would make this planet a better place in which
to live in.

Problem is people mix their definition of what is 'respect' of life.
To some, respecting life means being good stewards.
To others, it is not about being good stewards but being
controlling/maintaining, being 'good' roman soldiers.
I pity the latter, cogs in a wheel who have lost touch of
life therefore they are trying harder to control it.

Originally posted by HelenConway
I notice that the less sensitive and more selfish orientated individuals often have more ‘ success’ in their lives – in terms of career, homes, etc.

Sign of the times, don't let this be a discouragement.
Be with peace, in tune with life knowing this is truth; that 'success' can not
be accommodated in death.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Be it plants or animals, we must eat, and that requires the death
of something else. Its part of our very nature.

Many disagree with you and are living proof
en.wikipedia.org...


_____________________

reply to post by ToneDeaf


thank you tone deaf for your kind words and thoughful response