Am I bad ?

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posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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I have been pondering something lately and I would like to share it with the ATS crowd and ask you what you think?

What is good and what is bad? Now I think 'good' is life, is creation, is growth and kindness, is endeavouring to do no harm. I think trying to align with the life force [as I call it] and all creatures of the earth, be they winged, legged, finned or planted.

I try to live my life in a way that honours these deep feelings but I am not always successful, I get cross and snap at times - and feel guilty about it,

I agree with Chief Seattle: en.wikipedia.org...






‘’The Earth does not belong to man; Man belongs to the Earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. Whatever befalls the Earth befalls the sons of the Earth. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.”— Chief Seattle


The above and the below quote are exactly how I see the world.




‘’Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people... ‘’


Now the reason I ask the above question about good and bad is not to have a debate about the thoughts of great men and philosophers – all though their thoughts are welcome.

What I really want to do is explore – what is good and what is bad.




“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated…I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by [people] from the cruelty of [human kind]”—Mahatma Gandhi


I agree with Ghandi - many don't, why don't they ?

Anecdotally, I have heard that most people think they are ‘good ‘ and many people equate ‘good’ with ‘right’, therefore in many people’s eyes, to be right is to be good.

Now this is where I think there is a problem, we can do all sorts of vile things, but as long as we can justify our ‘rightness’ then the conscience is quiet ?

We see this in all areas of life –

Euthanasia in hospitals, disguised as aiding comfort, [Liverpool Pathway, Swiss death clinic] www.bbc.co.uk...

Eating veal [baby cows raised in crates without sunlight], in the name of tender cuisine. www.ciwf.org.uk...

Slaughtering animals in the name of protecting the environment or health: such as the badgers in Somerset, www.league.org.uk...

America’s wild horses – being systematically slaughtered: www.theatlantic.com...

Brumbies, 17,000 wild horses in Queensland, www.environmentalgraffiti.com...

30,000 plus dolphins in Taiji, Japan, savejapandolphins.org...

Indian ring necked parakeets in Surrey to be culled - for being too successful as recent immigrants etc
www.dailymail.co.uk...

War: in all its incarnations.

Violence – physical, mental, emotional.

I call this evil.

Most people do not – that immediately puts me at odds with ‘most’ people and immediately I am seen as the ‘baddie’.

Therefore am I bad? Am I bad because I often get upset by the turbulence and cruelty of this world, because I mourn the demise of forests and sentient creatures such as the gorilla, the orang-utan?

Am I bad because this pain inside me – adds a sensitivity which means I find it very difficult to share my space with people who are mean and cover this with a veneer of ‘niceness’.

I have to mix with these people – I work with them, I live near them, they are in my family, but I find it so hard.

I notice that the less sensitive and more selfish orientated individuals often have more ‘ success’ in their lives – in terms of career, homes, etc. Often people look up to them.

Does that mean they are ‘good ‘even though that is not how I see them?

Personally, I have let’s say ‘issues’ with a sibling who I have not spoken to or seen for 10 years, this individual has lied about me, spread untruths that have smeared my name and made my life very difficult in the ‘ family unit’. This person is seen by everyone else as ‘lovely’, they make sure that they are at the centre of the family and invite everyone to their house at Christmas, excluding me.

One of my other siblings in getting married in Hawaii in August and I arranged a rented apartment to share with several other family members. However, the ‘bad’ sibling – rang them all up separately and booked them all onto the flight that she had organised with her husband and children, - but not me. I am fine, I make other arrangements - but the point is she deliberately excludes me and the rest of the family just say' oh you are as bad as each other'.

That is NOT how it is at all.

So the people I am sharing the apartment with are all travelling with this person and I have to make my own arrangements. I find this very odd. Usually, I would consider that the group who are sharing the accommodation would travel together.

This sibling did this deliberately to exclude me, but everyone thinks she is ‘lovely’.

How can someone I see as really quite nasty and despicable towards me be so ‘lovely’?

This makes me question if I am bad and nasty and I have got it all wrong. I mean many are quite comfortable with this world are are at ease with the way things are. as long as their needs are met. I am not - you could give me a billion dollars and I would still be heartbroken and senstive to violence, actual or psychic.

But with a billion dollars I would have power to change some things and to lobby etc.

So if we all think we are good - who is really good ?

BTW I do believe in good and evil and please posters who are about to say ' I am a liar ' ' I call fake' ' photo or it never happened' and such like do not post here thank you.


edit on 10-3-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 09:55 AM
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It seems to me, based on your post, that you are a very compassionate person.

This is a wonderful thing, but a difficult path to travel.

What you deem as "bad" others might find no objection too....and this does not necessarily make them "bad" or "evil."

Culling a population is a sad thing, but sometimes necessary. Likewise with euthanasia; ending suffering is not a "bad" thing.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


Good and bad are based on God's opinions and your intent. There are no actions that are only good or only bad.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Thanks Smylee for your kind words and feedback.

Thats just it - things like the Liverpool pathway were designed to help ease suffering in palliative care ie for example when someone is terminally ill with cancer, days away from dying.

However it is used in actuality on old people who have nothing too seriously wrong with them - but they are deprived of food and water and soon go int o renal failure and die - as a result of the pathway, not the illness - so in my eyes the way it is used is evil.

I also believe culling is evil - especially when the animals have had their land taken away by man.

i do not believe in moral relativity.


edit on 10-3-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by HelenConway
 


Good and bad are based on God's opinions and your intent. There are no actions that are only good or only bad.


How do you know that ? What do you mean by that ?



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


I understand your points.

Here in the US, euthanasia for people is not allowed under law. I just know that I watched my grandmother suffer terribly for a year with terminal cancer at age 80....her last weeks were beyond comprehension. She kept begging to die, we knew it was inevitable, yet could do nothing to stop her suffering. Even the morphine and pain drugs couldn't help.

But you're right, its a slippery slope whenever the government is involved.

As for culling populations, what happens if the population isn't culled (when due to overpopulation)? Animals will eventually starve simply because there aren't enough resources to support the population. Which is crueler, a bullet or starvation?

Nature, and life itself, is cruel. In order to survive, one must kill. Be it plants or animals, we must eat, and that requires the death of something else. Its part of our very nature.

Which is why I said that compassion is a hard road to follow.

S&F, by the way.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


I wrote it short because I thought it was simple to understand. :|

Intentions are basically the reason you do something. For what purpose.

Think of it like accidentally hitting someone with your car, breaking their leg. Since you did not intend to hurt the person the action is not bad nor good.

The only way to judge something is by whom created it. The creator defined right and wrong based on your purpose. Only God gives purpose to you and so only God can judge an action (based on your intent).



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


thank you for your thoughtful response. I am sorry about your grandmother.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:14 AM
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I do not believe in an inherent good and evil.
Things are good or bad in relation to a specific intent or goal.

This is very tempting way of seeing the world though, because it elminates the necessity to be completely present, to regard each situation directly and with full attention, and to use critical thought.

If you have just two boxes like that, which everything is pre-judged for, then you don't have to actually engage yourself in the world much at all.

Even that is not "bad" to do. I would say it is not my personal goal at this time, so it would be "bad" for ME to do.

I suspect that we are drawn to certain choices of being and thought for a reason. They are sometimes directly linked to very real skills, knowledge or abilities we have or don't. So it might be "good" to trust them?

Like in the case of euthansia of certain animals- if you do not have the knowledge and experience to be abl to recognize and judge which animals are in terrible suffering and which ones aren't (some animals aren't that easy to read !) or you don't have the medical knowledge to judge which illness is treatable and could be healed with time and what won't, then that little voice that says "don't kill any of these animals" -might be a message directly made for you!

Problems only arrive when you consider that God wouldn't speak directly with you that way and would only send you messages and commands for the entire human race.... LOL!


This is my biggest objection to the static universal and inherent concepts of good and evil- they cause people to not listen to the messages within, because they "already know it all and don't need to."



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by HelenConway
 


I wrote it short because I thought it was simple to understand. :|

Intentions are basically the reason you do something. For what purpose.

Think of it like accidentally hitting someone with your car, breaking their leg. Since you did not intend to hurt the person the action is not bad nor good.

The only way to judge something is by whom created it. The creator defined right and wrong based on your purpose. Only God gives purpose to you and so only God can judge an action (based on your intent).


Well th ething is your points ar e interesting because they speak to the heart of what I am trying to understand.

Intention you say, absolves you of wrong doing if it was all unintentional ?

I cannot agree with this - if someone was drunk and they drove a car and killed someone, they did not intend to kill someone, but they did. Their lack of intention does not absolve them.

Also most people have very mixed up intent - for example you may say someting to someone at work, they then blow up in a verbal explosion at you. Ruins your day.

they will be quite adament that it was your fault because you did x y or z, but in reality it was nothing to do with you and was perhaps as a result of an argument that may have been ongoing with their brother for years - you just happened to say something that triggered their pain.

They did not intend to hurt you but they did ?

This is just it - humans are not clear with their intentions ? How does God direct people exactly ?



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


The intent makes the difference. It is why we have homicide and accidental homicide. They carry different sentences.

God directs people through conscience and some times angels (messengers of god) and some times through prophecy in the form of visions and some times through other people and idk but probably through signs as well. Oh and prayer. I can't believe I left that out. I pray a lot so that should have been first. lol
edit on 3/10/2013 by Bleeeeep because: edited to add prayer to the list



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Bluesma

I do not believe in an inherent good and evil.
Things are good or bad in relation to a specific intent or goal..........................

Problems only arrive when you consider that God wouldn't speak directly with you that way and would only send you messages and commands for the entire human race.... LOL!


This is my biggest objection to the static universal and inherent concepts of good and evil- they cause people to not listen to the messages within, because they "already know it all and don't need to."


thank you for your thoughts. i agree that the messages within are available to everyone, but you have to be a clear or clearish vessel to hear them, otherwise you get static and distortion, mixed with physical compulsions.

I think that there is good and bad as old fashioned as this sounds - i do not accept the trendy political concept of moral relativism,, for example just because some cultures think it is ok and acceptable for women to be stoned to death for minor infractions, does not in my book make it ok.

And I know this is not what you meant at all and you would agree with me in this instance, but even in minor ways - I do believe there are right paths and wrong paths, in alignment with life v destroying life.

peace.
edit on 10-3-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Bleeeeep
 


thanks for explaining that bleeeeep



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


You're welcome.
Have a good day.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

I think that there is good and bad as old fashioned as this sounds - i do not accept the trendy political concept of moral relativism,, for example just because some cultures think it is ok and acceptable for women to be stoned to death for minor infractions, does not in my book make it ok.

And I know this is not what you meant at all and you would agree with me in this instance, but even in minor ways - I do believe there are right paths and wrong paths, in alignment with life v destroying life.

peace.


Have I become trendy without knowing it? Moral relativism is not at all popular where I live so i didn't know that.
Funny to think people elsewhere might not consider me insane for percieving this way!


I would never say that anything other cultures judge as good and you don't, you should also judge as okay.
Your judgement is valid and valuable. It just isn't God's, is all I meant to say.
There's a lot to my views on things like life and death, which make the judgement more complex than it seems on first glance... I don't think we see all the big picture and all the details enough to make universal judgement.

But I'll keep all that to myself, I have no desire to convince anyone else, and these deep subjects often touch sensitive nerves easily.

I think we have even run into disagreements on some subject in the past here, though I don't remember what it was..... which makes me think we are very different. A good day to you and hope your discussion is lively and inspiring today!



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


ok thanks bluesma - I am not sure if you did or did not mean that you agree with moral relativism. But thanks for your thoughts have a good day.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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Having reread this post I noticed this ..



I think we have even run into disagreements on some subject in the past here, though I don't remember what it was..... which makes me think we are very different.
.

Again this is exactly what I was talking about in the OP. Being judged as ' different' or somehow ' bad ' and untouchable because my view differs.

In an office situation - i would imagine this would be followed by the silent treatment and a very uncomfortable situation.

Why do people do this ?
edit on 10-3-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by HelenConway
Why do people do this ?


People do not like their concepts challenged. Instead of confronting a possible threat to their concept of self they avoid the person who may challenge their concept.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Bleeeeep

Originally posted by HelenConway
Why do people do this ?


People do not like their concepts challenged. Instead of confronting a possible threat to their concept of self they avoid the person who may challenge their concept.


yes I think that is exactly right..

But this is the exact reason that the world is NOT working right now IMO ,,, because alot of selves need challenging so that we as a group start walking the correct path, one that respects all living beings.

This is what my sibling does to me - she makes herself right, avoids me, smears me by default and in her eyes she is all shades of right.

Thanks for your insight,



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


In idea I agree with you. We should all face our adversities, but it goes a lot deeper than that. It is at the very core of our being. We seek concepts and once we have one we will try to hang on to it. Only if a new concept is found to improve us, will we even allow an old concept to be challenged. It's a mechanism of evolution.





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