Old Testament Vs New Testament God

It's funny how all the christians who get fired up on these forums obviously believe in the new testament god and not the god of the old testament, the one who (if you believe all the stories and take them literally), drowned almost the ENTIRE human race. A god who killed thousands upon thousands with fire and pestilence among other things. A god who dictated if a man rapes a woman, then that woman MUST marry the man. A god who was not opposed to multiple wives. A god that demands people FEAR him. A god who turned a woman to salt just beause she turned around to look at the city god was laying waste to. A god who condoned murder, but then murdered thousands him/her/itself. A god who in the new testament preached forgiveness, but then ran on the eye for an eye philosophy.

It's been a long time since I've read the bible, but I do remember the last time I read it I got a VERY distinct impression the god of the old testament thrived on violence, blood, gore, fear and womens subservience to men. In fact the old testament god almost sounded like a naughty teenager in respects to liking blood n gore, being easily angered, saying he was infallible and knew everything etc

As you moved towards the end of the old testament, and then onto the new testament, you start to see a change in attitude from "Obey me or I will kill you and all your family" to "Obey me, but if you goof up, that's ok, as long as you realise it and ask forgiveness for your mistake." Assuming the bible is accurate, which it most likely isn't, this change in attitude implies god is learning as he goes, which then contradicts the "omnipotent, knows everything and is perfect and totally infallible" idea, but to me also makes the idea of a god more realistic (note i say "IDEA OF GOD" not "GOD").

Does anyone else feel that the original christian god has been forgotten to adapt one which better fits into todays politically correct society with increased awareness of human rights? Or that the bible, if read from front to back clearly shows a god that goes through similar life stages to humans?

OLD TESTAMENT
a. Adolescent.
Aggressive, likes to be respected via fear & intimidation, says he knows everything, constantly contradicting him/her/itself.

END OF OLD TESTAMENT / START OF NEW
b. Middle Age.
More focused on getting along with people. Passes his wisdom & knowledge onto the younger generation (humans), starting to be a little less extreme in his/her/its general attitude, establishing a rough set of guidlines to help make life more ordered, controllable & make sense.

END OF NEW TESTAMENT
c. Old Age.
Wise, preaches tolerance & forgiveness. Love your neighbour, live a good life, don't worry, everything happens for a reason, everything that happens eventually turns out to be a good thing for one reason or another. Starting to get almost nostalgic, talking about starting again & building a better world full of peace and love where everyone is happy.

PS: To all the hardcore christians, if the pope turned around tomorrow and said "all muslims are the scum of the earth. They are heathen and you must kill them, all their women and all their children" ... would you do it?

If you answered yes, do a bit of research on what the extremist muslims leaders are preaching to their followers, then try to explain how you are no less fanatical and willing to comitt unspeakable attrocities in the name of your god, just like the extremist muslims are doing now. Once you've successfully managed to do this, then try and prove to me that the concept of religion is not at its most basic level in fact, detrimental to humanity (no, I'm not attacking you, just asking you to open your mind a lil and look at both sides before making judgment on things)

but if you think it's been adapted for today's society then what about hundreds of yrs ago when society was totally different from today? There was no "politically correct" state of mind. People back then were following the new Testament.

and the Pope is Catholic not Christian

One of the malefactors on the cross cried to Jesus and said, "If you are the Son of God save yourself and us", while the other malefactor replied, "Aren't you ashamed? We're getting the punishment we deserved but this man did nothing wrong!" Then turning to Jesus he said,"Lord remember me when you come in your kingdom". Did Jesus come down from the cross to save the second malefactor for speaking right? No. But he did promise to see him in paradise.

Should a murderer be set free when he repents? No. Will he be forgiven? Yes.

Not every sin is penalized by death in the Old or the New. 1 John 5 said "There is a sin not unto death".

Often there is a confusion between "Law" and "Grace".

But what makes the New Testament (or Covenant) is the replacement of the animal sacrifices with the one and only sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Son of God, who then sat at the right hand of God. Hebrews is the epistle which talks about this, why would the first become Old ready to be vanished away versus the New.

I think the context of statements must be well examined. Forgiveness was granted on them who repented. Was the nation of Israel forgiven at the cross? On them who repented were. But the nation as a whole went through the diaspora in 70 ad. The psalms speak of subduing of enemies, which I strongly believe. I believe that we need to pray that our enemies (because of the cause of God) have to be spoken against. Remember in the book of Acts chapter 1, Peter quoted Psalm 69 (?) saying of Judas Iscariot, "Let his habitation become desolate. Let another take his office (or bishoprick. I'm quoting by memory.)" Well how would that fit in when Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"? Well, Jesus said of Judas that it would've been better if he would not be born!!!

Or remember Paul who withstood Bar-Jesus and God blinded this sorcerer? (Acts 13)

Also in Jeremiah God said several times in specific conditions that if Jeremiah prayed for Israel God would not hear him.

But the reason I believe on praying on them who persecute us is because some would do it because it's their job, which they ignorantly follow as Paul did. He didn't know what Jesus really taught until he was struck down and humbled himself. He was also hit by a roman soldier (I think a centurion) and replied if it was lawful to hit a Roman citizen. The question is, did the centurion hit him knowing he was a Roman citizen? No. The same way, if the Christians stick with the true teachings of Christ there should be no reason why they should be persecuted, unless they are falsely accused and they stand up for what is right (like Potiphar's wife who falsely accused Joseph).

Originally posted by kisorrell
and the Pope is Catholic not Christian

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Idon't see any diference chapo

kissorrel, that is exactly my point. During the roman empire, it's known the bible was modified to better suit the rulers of the time. It's also said the vatican removed a few "books" from the bible to make it better fit in with their preachings. Any catholics can take offense and get worked up about that if they want, it would just prove they have closed minds and don't like hearing anything that contradicts their beliefs.

In earlier times, the general attitude was, you misbehave, we take your head, stone you, or comitt some other type of violence, and this was reflected with god in old testament being quite violent and strict. As you move down the track, society starts to get softer. Softer, less extreme punishments for certain crimes, and god in the new testament reflects this where he starts preaching forgiveness and compassion.

Gilgalbiblewheel, you obviously have studied history / the bible more than I have so I don't know it well enough to give quotes which backup my argument. So what ARE the true teachings of christ? Because the books of the bible have been changed over the millenia. Additionally, they were written by humans...who are susceptible to embellishment and conveniently leaving out facts to help support their ideas. Lastly, how can you prove that the teachings you talk of are the true ones? An educated person would not believe something without first having solid proof that in this case, the document(s), are accurate, and are the literal words of jesus (not attacking anyone here so stay calm :up.

There is another thing that bothers me about the bible. It is said god knows everything that has, is or is yet to happen...soo, ok, he created adam n eve and gave them freewill because he wanted them to make thier own choices. Now, if he knew everything, then he would have known before he even made them that they would betray him. He would also have known the human race would turn into a sinning cesspool that he would have to wipe out with a flood, that . So, then why does he get upset when such events actually happen if he already knew they were going to happen? Also doesn't it say that not even god knows when the apocalypse will happen? That doesn't sound like he knows everything does it?

ps: There has always been "politically correct" behaviour. It just wasn't called that in ancient times, it was calling loving your rulers and fitting into society.

YES! THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTEMANT IS A DIFFERENT GOD THAN THAT OF THE NEW TESTEMANT! The scriptures which were removed from the bible by the catholic church tell about it all. Im a gnostic, if you want to learn more about this read about gnosticism.

Originally posted by slipstream_node
YES! THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTEMANT IS A DIFFERENT GOD THAN THAT OF THE NEW TESTEMANT! The scriptures which were removed from the bible by the catholic church tell about it all. Im a gnostic, if you want to learn more about this read about gnosticism.

Well the difference in the old testament is that the god was a god of a conqueror war god.

In the new testament they gave the god human characteristics and became a god of tolerance with a martyr as his son.

I believe in both the only differences in the two are partly as follows

Old testimate Phase outs New testiment replacement

No more sacrifices of animals Jesus sacrificed as final sacrifice

Flooding earth killing all but the ark God made a covenant with man
inhabitants the earth would never be flooded
again

Gods direct destruction of people God hasnt nor will he destroy
and cities for sins the cities for individual city sins
he is only going to fight the final
battle against the antichrist and
lucifer..........


So you can see although not all differnces are listed here, it inlightens
some obvious reasons why the New Testimate was made a new by God.

Now before you go off on the famous trip that says if God is perfect then
why correct his word......Answer he made changes because of his love for all men, he saw the free will we where excercising was not always in our best interests.

So in that love he gave Jesus for our sins, which changed some of the ways by which were where able to get his assistance and his forgiveness
for our tresspasses, and trials.

Now before Jesus the old testimate reflected a set of historic references (which are still applicable) some prayers (again applicable) some travel and stories/parables (which are a road map with examples that are still applicable as a guiding light) and finally but not completely. The life and trials of Jesus ministry and the description of causes for the suffering recieved from satan and his angels as vengance on God taken out on us his most cherish creations. Hince the trials and tribulations of Jesus and the suffering he indured for faith in God's designs........

Now this even changed our relationship with God, by opening the understanding of God's designs for all his creatures which before the bible
was limited to only a few, because of a lack of physical evidence and documentation that would first endure thru time hopefully as close to the way men first wrote it down from God, second wider spread other the world thru many mediums of communication ........our version of out sourcing information on the net it now.

I dont know if this all means anything to you but, Its the best way to express it in the easiest way possible for me. I hope it helps........

Originally posted by kisorrell
and the Pope is Catholic not Christian

Roman Catholic , main stream..........


Their are some parts of the Catholic system the closely work in Christain lines, However Jewish is the most direct link of Jesus's Church as it relates to Christans Churches , Where as the Roman Catholic Church was previous to Jesus's earthly ministry and formed on greatly differnt patterns.

Originally posted by LordGoofus
PS: To all the hardcore christians, if the pope turned around tomorrow and said "all muslims are the scum of the earth. They are heathen and you must kill them, all their women and all their children" ... would you do it?

The Pope is only the leader of the Catholic Church, not the leader of all of the Christians.

kisorrell - Catholics are Christians, as much as Protestants are Christians, Baptists are Christians and Persbyterians are Christians. They are all different sects of the same religion. They all profess to follow Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Pisky

Originally posted by LordGoofus
PS: To all the hardcore christians, if the pope turned around tomorrow and said "all muslims are the scum of the earth. They are heathen and you must kill them, all their women and all their children" ... would you do it?

The Pope is only the leader of the Catholic Church, not the leader of all of the Christians.

kisorrell - Catholics are Christians, as much as Protestants are Christians, Baptists are Christians and Persbyterians are Christians. They are all different sects of the same religion. They all profess to follow Jesus Christ.

Is this close to what I said cause I'm not Mainstream Roman Catholic or Close Christain Catholic and am I coming close to an understandable way
to distinguish the differnt versions of Catholic Belief Systems.
Someone Catholic out there know or perferably Someone from each version of Catholic System.

ps: There has always been "politically correct" behaviour. It just wasn't called that in ancient times, it was calling loving your rulers and fitting into society.


hmmm totally different then Politically Correct behavior. That's called kissing ass, brown nosing, afraid to lose your life or afraid to be an outcast to society. Plus, if you study the difference between Christianity and Catholicism they're 2 different religions. Sure, you can generalize them both because they both have God in them but it's not true. And you come up with "books being removed" and such, where is the proof? Seems like a bunch of speculation and heresay like most of the posts in this forum.

Originally posted by kisorrell
ps: There has always been "politically correct" behaviour. It just wasn't called that in ancient times, it was calling loving your rulers and fitting into society.


hmmm totally different then Politically Correct behavior. That's called kissing ass, brown nosing, afraid to lose your life or afraid to be an outcast to society. Plus, if you study the difference between Christianity and Catholicism they're 2 different religions. Sure, you can generalize them both because they both have God in them but it's not true. And you come up with "books being removed" and such, where is the proof? Seems like a bunch of speculation and heresay like most of the posts in this forum.

Read the Bible and you will see SCRIPTURES not books where made unused by the reasons stated IE Jesus was the Lamb sacrificed for our sins, and no futher requests are made for animals.......Second the Catholic Members of the part of the Christain Chaplains Association I run have been asked the same question by me when I welcomed into the organization, They say the difference being while they are Catholic they hold far closer beliefs than the Roman Catholic mainstream , yet some of the laws and ethics of the Roman Catholic Church on matters like pre-marriage relations,divorce issues,dedication,circumsision,ranking structure ie cardinals bishops etc, confessionals , mass, some ceremonies, are kept in the system, they said that they remain Catholic in their view because the laws and ethics are in direct relation to the laws of God as Christains know it ........That's how they told me it works......

the god of the old and new testament is the same god. if you read the bible through or research it on the internet you will find that God actually NEVER contridicts himself. the days of Jesus Christ on earth were recorded by gods prophets thousands of years before Jesus came and fullfilled them. as it is for this age, there are many unfullfilled prophecies that will still unfold.

you would find if you study the word of god that the same god of the old and new testament is a god of love . forgiveness and grace. God really does love all of us...if you see it like this : God knew that we would sin against him YET he did not want ROBOTS to follow him but REAL LIVING CREATURES who have a CHOICE, so God allowed us to choose, knowing fullwell that there would be a possibility that we would sin against him and anger him.God then sent his ONLY begotten son to DIE for us. now you may think if Gods all that why didnt he just come down and defeat sin,,or better still die himself for the world and not send his son. ask yourself which is the greater act of love?? it is worse to forsake that which you love more than yourself than to forsake yourself.
Jesus suffered on the cross for every man and women who have ever lived, imagine how much God must have suffered at that hour?/ the creator of all living things, powerless watching his son being slowly crucified by HIS OWN ENEMIES. thats another point to ponder....imagine you had an enemy you detested and wared with continually...now this enemy wanted you dead ...
...would you send your beloved son (a son who is innocent of ALL forms of sin or evil or transgression) to die for that enemy??? thats exactly what God did for us...and the question is WHY??? Because God Loves Us and God HATES SIN..in one act God showed his divine love to us and at the same time destroyed SIN forever. God truely is gracious and L O N G S UF F E R I NG !
God has suffered since we screwed up and went against his will to this very hour, because he is our true Father, he himself alone is the ULTIMATE LOVE!

as for comparing God to a human with his lifespan PLEASE READ THE BIBLE, it even says in there that God says "you thought I was LIKE YOU..one of YOU"
HE IS NOT LIKE US!!! Image and likeness is not the same as THE REAL DEAL!

sure there is bloodsheed in the OT, but have you read whats happening when Jesus returns ??? thats in the NT...revelations??? just as much blood there as in the OT!!!

and yes God burned down sodom.....he was angry and could not tolerate that sin...and that act of judgement STILL STANDS TODAY as a TESTIMONY. the main sin(there were other things going on there aswell, possibliy sex with angels and men--aswell as complete lawlessness,unrestraint of all sexual practices) of sodom was homosexuality and anal sex (everyone knows what "sodomy" means) ..from that one act of anger God has warned us from that day on....WHY??? well is it healthy to engage in it?? even natural??? the point im trying to make is that God hates sin...not because his a party pooper, but because sin can not only murder us here on earth. it can lead us into eternal ruin. interesting to note that the return of jesus christ is compared to what happened with sodom and what happened in noahs days (BOTH of these time periods did involve fallen angels interacting directly with mankind) and that today sodomy in porn alone has dramatically increased in recent yrs. a moral meltdown is going down RIGHT NOW.

anyway i hope my opinon is of some positive use. remeber that God in the end is the source of pure Love..the real stuff ..something this world(and fallen angels) cannot receive.

Maybe God just grew up

God has seemed to have mellowed with age. Gone are the days of raining his wrath apon the people of earth. Maybe having a kid is what mellowed him out.

The God in the New Tes. and Old Tes. seem to be very different in the way they handle intervention on earth. If he does intervene now he uses a feather instead of a slegde hammer.

feather??? this is OT stuff yet to happen:

Zephaniah
4 � The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 a day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 � And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.


Then there is this NT :

2 � And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore Ex. 9.10 upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 � And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 � And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. Ex. 7.17-21
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 � And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 � And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; Ex. 10.21 and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 and blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


same God! i think our definitions of "feather" obviously differ!

The God of the old testament and the God of the new testament are one and the same... and guess what, the wrath of God from the old testament is coming back, just hope you aren't in his way!

I don't see how the All-Mighty, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Infinite God of the New Testament, whose only two requirements for entry into "Heaven" were that we love God and love each other, could possibly be the same as the Gods of the OT.

The LORD of the OT felt regret, anger, pride, and jealousy. He made a bet with the devil about his most loyal follower, and allowed him to be tortured in order to win. He slaughtered whole tribes of people because they didn't worship him, or they were living in the land which, unbeknownst to them, the LORD had promised the Israelites. The LORD God appeared in person to Adam, Abraham, and Enoch to name a few, yet Jesus says in the NT that:
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

REGRET
Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
(the LORD regretted ever making man in the first place? Must not be ALL-KNOWING)

Genesis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
(the LORD didn't consider the fact that man is inherently evil BEFORE he decided to lash out and destroy all life with a flood? Doesn't really think too much before he acts, does he?)

Now this is not to say that God in the OT is not the same infinite, intangible diety mentioned in the NT, because I do think that Gen.1:1 and John 1:1 are talking about the same God. However, God is not the same as the LORD God (not to be confused with the Lord God).

God is described as being Light, Love, a Spirit, Truth, All-Knowing. Each of these descriptions is nothing more than an intangible concept of an infinite force far beyond our finite human understanding. The other thing each of the above words have in common is that they can each exist without an opposite. Light is light regardless of whether or not darkness exists, because darkness is nothing more than an absence of light. Truth does not need lies to exist in order to be truth, but in order for a lie to exist there must be a truth to lie about. See where I'm going with this?

The NT God is not a human-like, vengeful, angry, prideful, mistake prone God, like the LORD is in the OT. It doesn't kick people out of Paradise for wanting to understand and be like It. Nor did it confuse and scatter the builders of the Tower of Babel, because they were too close to being able to do anything they set their minds to! Those are things that an imperfect being drunk on his own power would do, not an infinte source of life and light!

Kicked out of Paradise:
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Genesis 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Tower of Babel:
Genesis 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.