Starve latent MRSA bacteria and/or Cancer cells by avoiding Carbs... What about the brain?, page 1

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Topic started on 10-3-2013 @ 03:02 AM by KamaSutra

Would this approach work?

Over the years, several years ago come to think of it, I have read tidbits of articles here and there suggesting MRSA and possibly pre/cancerous cells can remain dormant in the bloodstream and/or organs/organelles, even after aggressive treatments like IV antibiotics (in the case of bac infection) and chemotherapy (in the case of cancer).

However, will this work? I searched ATS prior to posting this up and didnt find a particular concern to match, on that note, that while it sounds good, is it really feasible?

What about the brain. Wouldn't starrving the body of sugar, also starve the brain of glucose? Doesn't the brain need sugar (in additiona to protein, minerals, etc)? If carbs aren't in the diet, can the brain function? Where does it get its fuel from?

Would the fda and/or ama endorse these treatments if helpful? Why or why not?

Disclaimer:By the way, no articles nor references were used in this post/thread.. only my brain and experience over the years.

reply posted on 10-3-2013 @ 03:12 AM by signalfire

Well, don't wait for any wisdom from the FDA.. they're in bed with the corporate criminal class, etc. If you don't understand that, do a search for drugs which the FDA allowed into circulation only to have to recall them once the dangers came out.

The brain can live on ketone bodies which are the byproduct of breaking down fat. This is a normal process developed over the eons and the reason you HAVE fat; to get your body and the brain through periods of no food, or only meat and fat intake.

You can also go into ketosis from a diabetic process but this is a disease process and not a healthy normal one.

It's actually quite fun to experiment with; eat no carbs for about two days and once your stored liver glucose, glycogen, is used up, you switch over to fat burning. It's subtle at first but then you feel a burst of energy and get a bit high too; the ketone bodies are a lot like alcohol. It's a very steady-state burning of fuel also, so you cease to be hungry; the ketosis also takes away a spurious appetite; you'll still get hungry but it's easy to think carefully about what you want to eat and take your time cooking it; snacking on anything quickly available isn't as likely.

Whether sustained ketosis can kill cancer cells is still up for grabs, but I'm trying it myself right now. I was diagnosed with breast cancer a few weeks ago and I switched out my diet to more veggies, numerous supplements and I'm trying to avoid blatant carbs. I know I feel better emotionally on the vegetables and avoiding wheat and sugar especially. I'm beginning to think wheat is as much a poison as sugar is, especially in American quantities.

edit on 10-3-2013 by signalfire because: can't spell late at night

reply posted on 10-3-2013 @ 03:19 AM by Wide-Eyes

reply to post by KamaSutra

Interesting post. I was always under the impression that fish was brain food, I don't know if it's an old wifes tale or not but fish is pretty much pure protein. I think carbs are supposed to help your body break down proteins, thus carbs are really only necessary to absorb proteins.

I would like somebody who knows to disect my post and tell me whether it's all wrong, partly wrong or right(which I'm not sure of).

reply posted on 10-3-2013 @ 03:21 AM by KamaSutra

Thanks that is reassuring, I'm going to try it but I already don't eat any animal products either, so whats left?

I'm waiting on a biopsy of my lymph taken on Friday to come in sometime this week hopefully. What happened is since I got the Flu around New Years, I've had swollen nodes/glands and paranoid with the environment being so polluted (its like one smokes half a pack to a full pack a day, even if they don't) and the radiation and Wifi and cell phones.Swollen to the size of grapes in some areas and the doctor lanced them they went down nicely but others popped up. I tested neg for any "infection". But would tests pick up some sort of dormant MRSA? (My doc couldnt answer that with 100% certaintly except don't worry about it)

What else are you doing to treat the BC?

reply posted on 10-3-2013 @ 03:42 AM by Wide-Eyes

reply to post by KamaSutra

I'm waiting on a biopsy of my lymph taken on Friday to come in sometime this week hopefully.

I think you need to eat a steak and some liver. I know being vegetarian is hip and everything but unfortunately for you, our bodies have evolved to be dependent on meat. Why do you think your appendix is now a useless organ?

edit on 10-3-2013 by Wide-Eyes because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-3-2013 @ 03:55 AM by Kratos40

reply to post by KamaSutra

From the initial reports on MRSA microbes, is that they have developed the ability to counteract all the antibiotics that we have available.
This happens because patients do not take their full prescription as prescribed and end it prematurely. Bacteria can live in different environments with or without sugar. So starving a human body of glucose supplies will not help since bacteria and viruses can live of other substrates. The brain uses up the most amount of glucose in the human body. So this will not help.

Kratos

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 12:16 PM by signalfire

Fish is 'brain food' in that studies have shown that there is a protein in fish that actually stimulates neuronal development. In other words, it makes more brain cells, something that for a long time was thought impossible. It's very possible that humans took a big step forward in brain size when they started fishing extensively, or in those areas of the world where seafood was easily available (the Mediterranean comes to mind, home of many of the initial great cultures).

If fish were 'brain food' as stated above, if you didn't have any fish, you wouldn't have any brains. And there's plenty of protein in even a very strict vegan diet. I have a friend who has been OCD-strict on a vegan diet for over 30 years and he's one of the healthiest people I know, and most definitely a genius, too.

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 12:26 PM by signalfire

Originally posted by KamaSutra
Thanks that is reassuring, I'm going to try it but I already don't eat any animal products either, so whats left?

I'm waiting on a biopsy of my lymph taken on Friday to come in sometime this week hopefully. What happened is since I got the Flu around New Years, I've had swollen nodes/glands and paranoid with the environment being so polluted (its like one smokes half a pack to a full pack a day, even if they don't) and the radiation and Wifi and cell phones.Swollen to the size of grapes in some areas and the doctor lanced them they went down nicely but others popped up. I tested neg for any "infection". But would tests pick up some sort of dormant MRSA? (My doc couldnt answer that with 100% certaintly except don't worry about it)

What else are you doing to treat the BC?

Sorry, just saw this and realized it was directed towards me. I'm taking selenium, high dose Vitamin C (20+ GRAMS a day), hash oil (see 'run from the cure' by Rick Stevens), Vitamin E and D, avoiding dairy and carbs almost entirely. You asked what else is available if you don't eat meats; a low carb vegetarian diet is mostly the watery veggies; cabbage, lettuce, tomatoes, etc. It's not too hard to figure out.

I don't know if you have cancer or not, it could easily be a lingering reaction to the flu you had. Get on line and read everything you can, your education on nutrition and medicine seems limited (as does the third response here, yikes!) I've been in the medical field for over 30 years and I don't trust mainstream medicine now at all. There's a lot of information out there as to why, but the AMA and ACS apparently tried to buy out any competitors who had come up with cures for cancer and when this didn't work, they had they arrested as quacks or run out of the country. It's interesting that in a 'free country', you're not allowed to go have the kind of treatment you want, whether it works or not. Seems like that should be up to the individual, not some massively funded corporate-collusional system to determine. Hell, If I want to take laetrile, shouldn't I be able to? Especially if I've been sent home to die???

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 12:45 PM by davjan4

This is not medical advice. I'm just relating my experience.

The brain can run happily on ketones.

evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com...

I'm ketogenic some of the time. I eat LOTS of fat. Good fat though: Home-made beef tallow, coconut oil, butter, whole raw milk... You cannot expect to go into ketosis by eating a "vegan" diet. A vegan diet is low fat, not high fat. A ketogenic diet is high in fat.

If you go looking for studies of high fat diets, keep in mind that the fats they feed the mice are often vegitable oil. This can skew the studies in my opinion.

If you're going for ketosis PLEASE don't eat margarine or vegitable oils. They are very high in omega 6 fats and should be totally avoided. Avoid wheat and sugar too... Also when you get coconut oil make sure it's organic, cold pressed and not hydrogenated. I personally buy the Nutiva brand, but there are others. I also drink coconut milk. Make sure to look at the cans lable. Beleive it or not Wal-Mart sells the "Gold Star" brand around Texas for $1.48 a can. It has two ingredeints: water and coconut. No gaur gums or anything like that.

I've been eating lots of fat for over 5 years now. I cured my blood sugar problem. I was diagnosed pre-diabetic. Now I'm not and have maintained that for 5+ years. I was also diagnosed with epilepsy at the age of 16 and have been on medication since then. A year ago I started tapering off the meds, knowing that ketogenic diets have been used successfully to treat epilepsy. I'm now medication free. By the way I'm an RN andI know going off these meds is nothing to be messed with if you don't know what you're doing. I did it because I know what I'm doing. If you don't, then DON'T.

The reason I mentioned my personal situation was to illustrate how good fats can be for your brain. Keep in mind that I also eat very clean: grassfed beef, home-made bone broth, home grown vegitables, raw milk. You get the idea: nothing processed and as much organic and pesticide free as possible. If it's pesticide free and organic, that's what I buy, if I'm not growing it myself.

Please watch this video. Its about how a physician treated her husband with advanced alzheimers with coconut oil. Please watch all three parts. This again illustrates what fats can do for your brain.

Edit: I forgot to mention that if you are at all concerend about your brain, please don't eat any artificial sweeteners.

YouTube Link

edit on 12-3-2013 by davjan4 because: spelling and added content

edit on 12-3-2013 by davjan4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 01:11 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

OP a short answer is no….

The reasons why are all to do with some rather complicated biochemistry, its been quite some time since I have gone over this but to give you a quick summary our cells metabolise glucose to create energy called adenosintriposphate ATP ( I bet I spelled that wrong!). In the absence of glucose our cells start to use up other products to create the fuel required by cells to produce the energy they require to keep a muscle moving for example. However during periods of starvation When there is no glucose available the blood starts to eat up the fatty adipose tissue and then starvation starts to set in it then moves on to eating up proteins in the mussels and in other places, essentially the body eats itself. So if your hypothesis is that you could starve carcinogenic cells and bugs like MRSA then the answer is no, because all that would happen is that the cancer cells would start to eat up the adipose tissue and protein’s in the body, that is why cancer patients lose weight.

The Akins diet is based on a low carb method and it is actually quite bad for you, yes you will lose weight but it’s not a healthy option our bodies are made to metabolise carbs. It should be avoided in my opinion if you have cancer because a low or zero carb diet only means that your body is going to start using up the fats and proteins it might relay on later down the road of your illness.

Diet and illness is actually a very interesting topic people get all hyped up about certain things go out spending a fortune on vitamin supplements and they avoid particular foods branded as “health” when they are actually “dangerous”. For example so called low-salt is not healthy, they take the sodium out but they put potassium in, if you have cardiac problems you could end up worst case having a heart attack, same thing goes if you stalk up of vitamins every day, you’re going to put your bloods of and many will interfere with drugs (Vitamin K and Warfarin for example). The best thing you can do is have a well-balanced diet and speak to a doctor, nurse or if you can a dietician (a proper one)

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 01:12 PM by davjan4

Originally posted by signalfire
You can also go into ketosis from a diabetic process but this is a disease process and not a healthy normal one.

The difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis.

www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com...

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 10:32 PM by signalfire

Originally posted by davjan4

Originally posted by signalfire
You can also go into ketosis from a diabetic process but this is a disease process and not a healthy normal one.

The difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis.

www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com...

Thanks, I understood that. I was trying to make the post as simple as possible. Congratulations for finding a really great way to treat your prediabetes and epilepsy. Wow!

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 10:41 PM by signalfire

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
OP a short answer is no….

The reasons why are all to do with some rather complicated biochemistry, its been quite some time since I have gone over this but to give you a quick summary our cells metabolise glucose to create energy called adenosintriposphate ATP ( I bet I spelled that wrong!). In the absence of glucose our cells start to use up other products to create the fuel required by cells to produce the energy they require to keep a muscle moving for example. However during periods of starvation When there is no glucose available the blood starts to eat up the fatty adipose tissue and then starvation starts to set in it then moves on to eating up proteins in the mussels and in other places, essentially the body eats itself. So if your hypothesis is that you could starve carcinogenic cells and bugs like MRSA then the answer is no, because all that would happen is that the cancer cells would start to eat up the adipose tissue and protein’s in the body, that is why cancer patients lose weight.

The Akins diet is based on a low carb method and it is actually quite bad for you, yes you will lose weight but it’s not a healthy option our bodies are made to metabolise carbs. It should be avoided in my opinion if you have cancer because a low or zero carb diet only means that your body is going to start using up the fats and proteins it might relay on later down the road of your illness.

Diet and illness is actually a very interesting topic people get all hyped up about certain things go out spending a fortune on vitamin supplements and they avoid particular foods branded as “health” when they are actually “dangerous”. For example so called low-salt is not healthy, they take the sodium out but they put potassium in, if you have cardiac problems you could end up worst case having a heart attack, same thing goes if you stalk up of vitamins every day, you’re going to put your bloods of and many will interfere with drugs (Vitamin K and Warfarin for example). The best thing you can do is have a well-balanced diet and speak to a doctor, nurse or if you can a dietician (a proper one)

Most of this is bullpuckey, as evidenced by your inability to spell 'muscles'. Mussels are shellfish. The truth of the matter is, our bodies evolved to handle long period of NO CARBS very easily. This is what fat is for, sustained fuel for times when one was hunting for days or during the late winter when stored carbs were in short supply. Working to kill cancer is a whole 'nuther ballgame and it has recently been found that CANCER CANNOT METABOLIZE KETONE BODIES. It only feeds on blood glucose (and probably this is why obese people with high glucose diets tend to get more cancers). If a diet high enough in fats and proteins and very low in carbs is adopted, it stands to reason that this might cause the far more metabolically active cancer cells to die. It's certainly worth a shot and cannot hurt you if not taken to extremes (as in continuing a too low calorie intake past the point of fat being gone and now you're starting to eat away at your muscle and organ tissue, like a anorexic.).

I repeat, THIS IS NOT STARVATION, it's a normal variant for sustaining bodily functions. The Eskimos regularly eat very low carb diets and they're fine, but they long ago realized that some of the blubber and meats in their diet had to be raw, not cooked. We are all genetically cave people, not Twinkie eaters, and not 'cigarette and coffee' eaters, either.

And oh, by the way, most doctors get all of a half hour of 'instruction' on nutrition. They're clueless. Look what they did with Linus Pauling, one of the greatest minds of the 20th century; they considered his research on Vitamin C basically quackery; turns out the guy was right.

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 11:01 PM by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by KamaSutra
Would this approach work?

Over the years, several years ago come to think of it, I have read tidbits of articles here and there suggesting MRSA and possibly pre/cancerous cells can remain dormant in the bloodstream and/or organs/organelles, even after aggressive treatments like IV antibiotics (in the case of bac infection) and chemotherapy (in the case of cancer).

However, will this work? I searched ATS prior to posting this up and didnt find a particular concern to match, on that note, that while it sounds good, is it really feasible?

What about the brain. Wouldn't starrving the body of sugar, also starve the brain of glucose? Doesn't the brain need sugar (in additiona to protein, minerals, etc)? If carbs aren't in the diet, can the brain function? Where does it get its fuel from?

Would the fda and/or ama endorse these treatments if helpful? Why or why not?

Disclaimer:By the way, no articles nor references were used in this post/thread.. only my brain and experience over the years.

It will also give you Parkinson's or Alzheimer's if done for any length of time. Training the brain to live off Ketones is not a smart thing to do in my opinion. You will lose more than weight.

i think making your body alkaline will do the job

edit on 12-3-2013 by sligtlyskeptical because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-3-2013 @ 11:45 PM by KamaSutra

Yall are so nutritionally informed, its amazing.

You mentioned coconut oil, well I love that stuff, the coconut "meat" to go with the water. Coconut has been found to have some awesome antibiotic activities.

Avocados, nuts, seeds are also loaded with oils. Well, most every plant has its oils readily available. I've read great things about almond, sesame, garlic, oregano, even canola oil available by the gallon or so, at the local supermarket.

Theres no problem getting plenty of complete proteins and fats from a colorful vegan diet.Whats hard is avoiding te sugars from fruits, and the complex carbs from even the huskiest grains and veggies. Since commercial vegetables from the supermarket have a huge carbon footprint, I avoid those. But I guess healthful daily salad (the staple of my diet along with tofu, green beans, green lentils/peas) is bound to have some carbs so I dont have to worry about my body, brain relying on solely on ketones.

I'm impressed some of yall do rely on fat breaking down into ketones to provide the replacement for sugar the brain,body needs. It sounds extreme, and even enticing. But just not practical for my green diet.

Besides, is there an extra toll on the kidneys (and/or liver) in processing a predominantly/exclusively fatty/protein-rich diet? Do ketones made from broken down fat, or their metabolites, take heavy toll on the kidneys?

Oh yeah and dont replace sugar with sweeteners. We most all know what aspartame is about! They are so obvious, Mayor Bloomberg pushing to BAN SUGARY drinks but not aspartame for even toddlers.

Stevia's awesome, but natural, so no wonder they DONT use that.

Originally posted by davjan4

YouTube Link

edit on 12-3-2013 by KamaSutra because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-3-2013 @ 12:08 AM by rickymouse

From what I have read, there is only one part of the brain that needs glucose and the rest can run on ketones from fat stores. We can go a long time not eating but we do need to drink water. After three days of not eating the body starts to change chemistry and actually starts to heal. I do not know what the effect of this will be on cancer though.

Tumors can be shrunk by eating foods that restrict blood vessel growth into them. Strawberries and beef cartilage do this. Neither will kill it, they just shrink it by lowering nutrients to the cancer cells. Their fast metabolism needs lots of food, the cancer cells start to starve to death. Then if you hit them with one of the natural plant/mushrooms that kill the remainder it can work. This is from research I read and I stuck two different researches together to try to shrink and kill.

MRSA can be killed by a few different spices and herbs and even possibly coconut oil.

edit on 13-3-2013 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-3-2013 @ 12:48 AM by KamaSutra

Yeah coconuts are an all around awesome superfoods. Figures for a plant thats able to spread to every continent except antarctica, by travelling across the sea and grow standing in nutrient-rich saltwater, often dry salty sand, and intense uv rays.

I remember Dr House episodes they refer to alky being injected to temporarily mask/shrink a tumor/growth through deflation of the cells.

Likewise, no antibiotic, not even the last-resort line of new antibiotics, kills all of the bacterial infection or MRSA, antibiotic supposedly only help the body by reducing the reproduction of the bacteria (until generations of bacteria become immune even in the same invidivual). The opposite of antibiotic inhibition, would be sugar proliferation.

I've heard from a doctor here and there over the years, that their MRSA TB or cancer patients tend to have sugar cravings and cravings for acidic foods. Its almost like the MRSA TB or cancer are depleting the sugars in the bloodstream or thriving in the acidic pH so much so that they use it up and call for more. Or, its just cause and effect. Either way its great to know there's studies that show glycemic blood grows more infection and/or acid grows the runaway cells that a more healthy body would quickly neutralize on its own.

YouTube Link

reply posted on 13-3-2013 @ 01:31 AM by cavrac

I need to lose weight, and I am doing it by ketosis

My body is in ketosis / lipolysis so any energy I expend will burn my stored fat.

I have discovered a great way to induce ketosis / lipolysis by drinking a lot of strongly brewed White Peony tea

Here is a link to some research that was done, and I can confirm that it works for me.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I am also adding Sage and Rosemary extract to the tea for the ursolic acid, which should help build muscle and brown fat (good fat) The more muscle and brown fat I have the more I will burn the type of fat I want to lose.

now.uiowa.edu...

I sweeten the tea with Stevia Extract and Lemon Juice, I drink about a half gallon of the tea a day.

I am also drinking a lot of water and eating an ultra low glycemic diet (Meats, Fish, Poultry, nuts, most green veggies)

I am taking a good multi vitamin, and in addition taking iron, calcium, magnesium, and potassium, since all the water I am drinking is flushing these elements out of my body.

I have stopped drinking alcohol and diet soda

I test my urine with ketone testing strips, and the strips always show ketones detected.

I have not started exercising yet, but I will soon, once things settle down for me.

I feel much better than I did a month ago when I was eating Pizza, Pasta, fast food, sweets etc. etc.

I am not sure about the whole ketosis preventing cancer topic that the OP is about, but I hope that it does, and I will probably research it a bit.

Sorry for the long post

reply posted on 13-3-2013 @ 01:49 AM by KamaSutra

Oh yesss whilte or at least green teas, gotta love EGCG!

Apparently its also an memory (brain?) booster:

YouTube Link

reply posted on 13-3-2013 @ 12:09 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin

reply to post by signalfire

Insulting the autocorrect of my word processer is a rather trivial and annoying point to make, it constitutes nothing to the debate I really don’t know why you would bother posting that if you know what I mean there isn’t a problem.

Fundamentally the OP is asking of a low carb diet can starve cancer cells to a point where they die and no longer function. The answer is simply no because as anyone who has ever studied any level of biochemistry will tell you the cancer cells will just find another source of energy, they will start to use up the bodies proteins. You cannot starve cancer cells just by cutting out carbs all you’re going to do is make yourself sicker. Yes you might be correct in saying that Cancer cells wont metabolise Ketones but ketones are the by-product of the brake down of fatty acids for energy use but cells including cancer cells so it really doesn’t matter. After all the adipose tissue has been used up the cancer cells are then going to start to use the body’s own proteins to produce energy and if you have been starving yourself of carbs you’re going to end up having big problems. If the cancer has spread to the pancreases and you and you advise them that “low carbs is the key” and ketone bodies will save the day you will probably kill that person with ketoacidosis or if they are on lots of steroids which in turn may reduce the effectiveness of insulin and again cause ketoacidosis. Low carbs might help you lose weight and give you bad breath but they won’t help you beat cancer.

The key to healthy eating is a balanced diet all these idiots who come out with rubbish like eat nothing but cranberry’s and never touch an egg are talking out of their behind. Healthy eating is not complicated it amazes me that money that people spend on diet books, supplements and “super-foods” when all you need to do is have some common sense.

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