Reincarnation and the "Little Deaths"

Originally posted by Murgatroid
I became convinced about reincarnation last year after I realized that counterfeit religion is all one huge lie.

When I began to see that reincarnation was connected to false religions, that's when I knew that it was just another ploy to mislead people away from the truth.

My question to you, then, is: to what end? If you deconstruct selfish, fear-based ideas, you will find that they all have an end. I'll give you a couple of examples:

"Satan wants to mislead me from the truth, but God wants to save me with the truth" implies many underlying ideas, most importantly that the volition of the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent entity, a.k.a. the Supreme Being, can be thwarted. But there's the rub. If its will can be thwarted, then it is not by any means omnipotent. The 'goal' of the entity pushing this "weak God" idea is that you would chase your tail forever.

"Counterfeit religions promulgate the idea of reincarnation being real" implies none too subtly that there is at least one "True religion". Since all religions deal with the scenario of mankind being broken and in need of salvation, this statement also implies that the Supreme Being's will can be thwarted, thus the 'end' is the same.

Why do so many religious people have so little faith in their God that they believe "His" will can be thwarted? Is not God a god of order and not chaos? Is not God the very source of existence? Who's running things, after all? Why do men imagine a world in which they are the unwilling prey of a spiritual predator who has license to rip them to shreds for all eternity unless they are lucky enough to discover "True religion"? I'll tell you why: it's because the very fear produced by entertaining such a notion is FOOD to an ACTUAL spiritual predator who feeds and feasts on mankind all day, every day, because men choose fear over trust. The 'ruling elite' of this world love it when you choose not to trust Source. However, when you decide to stop feeding this predator, it has no choice but to go looking for easier pickings, since it has no power or strength of its own. It exists as a shadow. It is our worthy opponent in this game. Look past the fear and unmask the real "enemy". It's much closer than you think.

"Why would Satan bother coming up with a big lie about reincarnation? What's the point?"

Mankind has an innate desire to commune with God. It is in our nature, because God put it there. Satan will use any means available to lead people away from God. He doesn't have to get people to believe there is no god, he simply has to get them to not believe in the Christian God. A simple way for him to do this is with counterfeit religious experiences such as "reincarnation past-lives."

Reincarnation -- Satan's Second-Biggest Lie

Seriously? You're going to invoke the idea of a monolithic "Christian God"? Here? Come now, you surely know that the (duality-based) God that the snake handlers worship is a world away from the (duality-based) God that the Episcopal Church promotes. To attempt to reconcile them is to court insanity. Source: years of personal experience, and losing friends to theological madness.

Hinduism, Buddhism, and New Age beliefs are deceptions.

Through Hinduism and Buddhism, and their core belief of karma and reincarnation, Satan has deceived many people into accepting and believing that by doing good works, a person would qualify to have his spirit elevated from one lifetime to the next in order to eventually reach a state of spiritual ‘enlightenment’.

I believe even rational and logical thinking persons can choose to believe in ‘reincarnation’. This is because they have been deceived by demonic spirits. They are rendered blind to reason and logic regarding spiritual matters.

Through Hinduism and Buddhism, Satan and his fellow demonic spirits have deceived many generations of people in large parts of the world into unwittingly allowing their bodies and souls to be possessed. This permits the demonic spirits to 'reincarnate' in them serially.

Satan inspired Hinduism and Buddhism with the core beliefs of Karma and reincarnation.
The concept of reincarnation has been debunked by the concept of demonic spirit possession explaining all the ‘evidence’ proffered for reincarnation.
Hence reincarnation is a lie and Hinduism, Buddhism, and New Age beliefs are deceptions. They bear the signature of Satan. Source

The above is poorly-written conjecture. Here's a tip for you: "Satan" can use anything in your mind to twist the truth. Any fact or piece of evidence can be "the signature of Satan"

Salutations,

After many years following this site I came along this incredible thread that has compelled me to offer my thoughts and opinions on Reincarnation.

I to have looked to nature and found and seen many of the cycles that make me feel that nature when managing the soul (as an energy) wouldn’t just waist such an amazing unique entity. Making me strongly suspect that the soul will be at the very least re invented. Looking at the bigger picture Good and Evil could be just forces that are inherent in the cycle. Meaning without good there couldn’t be evil and without light there couldn’t be darkness so our souls may be predisposed to balance the spiritual equilibrium. The below by Andy Weir, and apologies if this is already included in this quite lengthy thread really helped me get my head around my believes and I share it hoping it inspires and reassures:

www.galactanet.com...

let me know your thoughts on this wonderful short story

I know that these comments aren't going to sit well with some, but I'm not here to win a popularity contest. This is the age of knowing. Believing something, regardless of how significant or small it may be, is comparable to sucking on a pacifier. While a belief may offer some measure of comfort and degrees of perceived security, this does not change what is and what is not.

We can read volumes of information on any given subject, and the healthy way to retain said information is to hold it in consideration. To believe ANYTHING is, in my view, potentially setting ourselves up for a fall. The ability to attain and discern the ultimate truths in regards to the nature of the 'great mystery of life' lies within each of us.

The path of least resistance is the easy way to go, but we all should know by now that anything worth having doesn't come easily. Acquiring knowledge and wisdom does not happen accidentally. That being said, I certainly don't claim to be all knowing and I struggle just like any other human. While it would be foolish to disregard the advise and wisdom imparted to us from those who have tread upon the path before us, we must recognize our own divinity and the fact that everything changes.

What was considered the truth a century, decade, year, or even a week ago may not be at all applicable here and now. This is a time of transition, and the time for belief has been left in the dust.

Healthy debate is never a bad thing. But throwing our beliefs around like daggers is never a good thing. This isn't aimed at anyone or any idea in particular. I just felt that this needed to be included in the discussion of such a broad topic on which this thread has so eloquently touched.

I will climb down from my soapbox now. Thank you for reading, and I urge you not to believe anything I've written here.

reply to post by htapath

A good reminder, indeed. We are force fed beliefs from everywhere all our lives. I do agree with you that being set in a belief can create an obstacle to real consideration and the actual determination of what is truth. However, if someone has concluded that something is true based on real consideration, then to allow it to inform their lives is appropriate. As such, it does not need to be believed - just like the sun coming up in the morning, it just is the case.

Originally posted by htapath
The ability to attain and discern the ultimate truths in regards to the nature of the 'great mystery of life' lies within each of us.

This sounds like something you believe? I don't believe that Reality is realized within us, nor outside of us. Reality is beyond such distinctions. These body-minds arise in Reality and such distinctions of inside and outside are of no relevance to Reality Itself - only to our point-view-making brain-minds. But as you already know, this has to be discovered to be true, not just believed.

Originally posted by htapath
What was considered the truth a century, decade, year, or even a week ago may not be at all applicable here and now.

True enough about scientific discovery, various conditional manifestations, etc. - but is this true of Reality Itself? Is this true of reincarnation?

Originally posted by htapath
I urge you not to believe anything I've written here.

LOL! But should I believe this statement is true? Just kidding.

Thank you for your well-considered post.

Originally posted by htapath

What was considered the truth a century, decade, year, or even a week ago may not be at all applicable here and now. This is a time of transition, and the time for belief has been left in the dust.

Healthy debate is never a bad thing. But throwing our beliefs around like daggers is never a good thing. This isn't aimed at anyone or any idea in particular.

The "truth" of last centuries was materialism, which has PROVEN to be wrong by latest science, most importantly quantum theory.

It is important to realize that "science materialism". If I say I am a "scientific guy" and I look at things from a scientific point of view, I can very well "believe" in things like dualism and in addition even know that dualism (separation of consciousness/brain) makes more sense than believing in a strict materialism where it is assumed consciousness/soul is only a product of the physical functions of the brain.

Short: If someone doesn't believe in reincarnation, separate consciousness etc. they are ALSO just trapped in a belief system, and actually one which is long outdated

As for reincarnation and whatever related experiences and coming to a conclusion, for me it's not a matter of blindly "believing" but going with the evidence. As I said earlier, the evidence that consciousness is separate from the brain is overwhelming, meaning that "believing" in reincarnation etc. is more scientific than going the materialistic route and rejecting the idea DESPITE the evidence.

reply to post by bb23108


The sun coming up tomorrow is a good and oft used example. If the sun indeed does NOT come up tomorrow, i.e. life ends, am I ready? I am, and I don't assume for one minute that the sun will in fact rise for me tomorrow. Am I ready for the sun to come up tomorrow? Yes I have made preparations for that as well, since I have water and food for tomorrow as an example. Whether or not I believe the sun will rise tomorrow has no effect on the outcome, short of me taking my own life or some other extreme like gouging out my eyes out or hiding in a box.

This sounds like something you believe? I don't believe that Reality is realized within us, nor outside of us. Reality is beyond such distinctions. These body-minds arise in Reality and such distinctions of inside and outside are of no relevance to Reality Itself - only to our point-view-making brain-minds. But as you already know, this has to be discovered to be true, not just believed.

I cannot offer you proofs, nor do I think that you would expect them. There is no substitute for knowing, and I will leave it at that. While there are certainly some aspects of reality that cannot be known from our current perspective, this does not diminish what we have the ability to know, and ease the burden shall we say.

True enough about scientific discovery, various conditional manifestations, etc. - but is this true of Reality Itself? Is this true of reincarnation?

The only constant is all encompassing change.

Thank you for the intelligent exchange bb 23108. To see through the eyes of many is a great teacher, and we are all students in this regard.

reply to post by ByronUK


First, welcome aboard! It's always an honor when someone signs up to ATS prompted by one of my threads.

Second, thanks for that interesting story. It was a good, little read. I especially like the denouement:

“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

www.galactanet.com...

The story does pose some interesting questions. The one that struck me is that we're all the same "soul," divided into many parts. Is this what is meant by oneness? non-duality? The Golden Rule? I am that? That is the epitome of enlightenment. Oh, what a world it would be if we all realized we are parts of the same organism, the same being. But sometimes, organisms develop diseases: cancers, auto-immune attacks etc. Is social disease, hatred, war etc. simply caused by our own inability to see the wholeness of our planet?

Originally posted by htapath
Believing something, regardless of how significant or small it may be, is comparable to sucking on a pacifier. .

This may be true. But, I think the crux here is that some believe, but aren't willing to adjust their beliefs when evidence points to the contrary; they cling to their so-called pacifier. I have beliefs, but I don't write them in stone. I am willing to change my outlook. After all, isn't a belief just a little like a hypothesis? It is the first step of the scientific method. If my belief doesn't hold up to the data, then the belief must be revised. There actually is data on the subject of reincarnation, as many other posters have pointed to various case studies. You can't say there is no qualitative data on the subject. Are these case studies conclusive? No, not for many. That is why we continue to discuss the belief.

Hypothesis-

a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.

dictionary.reference.com...
The difference here is that reincarnation is not really an observable phenomenon. We just have to go based on, well, belief, and the testimonials, and case studies of others. Is this observation or fantasy? Hard for me to say. It's a fine line in this case.

To believe ANYTHING is, in my view, potentially setting ourselves up for a fall.

Only if you're rigid in your beliefs and not willing to change them. But if you're set in your beliefs, you're not setting yourself up for anything because you probably won't acknowledge when your belief has been invalidated (not that I recommend the latter approach at all.)

But throwing our beliefs around like daggers is never a good thing.

Okay, this makes sense and I see what you're saying about haphazardly perpetuating ignorance. That's not what this site is about, right? But I think most of us here are mature enough to discuss it without getting wounded.

Thanks for your post, by the way. Indeed we do walk a tightrope when dealing with unsupported belief and faith. You simply have reminded us to be wary of where we step.

Originally posted by htapath
reply to post by bb23108

 

I cannot offer you proofs, nor do I think that you would expect them. There is no substitute for knowing, and I will leave it at that. While there are certainly some aspects of reality that cannot be known from our current perspective, this does not diminish what we have the ability to know, and ease the burden shall we say.

I did not mean to imply that knowing all kinds of things does not happen due to inner and outer processes of the body-mind. I was only talking about absolute realization of Reality Itself or real Enlightenment.

Originally posted by htapath
The only constant is all encompassing change.

Yes, this is true relative to conditional arising, but what about the Unconditional Reality all such changes arise in? It is beyond all change.

Originally posted by htapath
Thank you for the intelligent exchange bb 23108. To see through the eyes of many is a great teacher, and we are all students in this regard.

Yes, thank you also.

Oh, and my apologies, OP, this is a bit off the topic of reincarnation - although ultimately it includes it! .