Islam and Free Speech: Principle vs. Privilege

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Well don't come crying when pissed off Muslims are blowing up embassies and beheading your citizens then. You value freedom od speech, they value their 1400 year old religion.

By the same token, if staunch defenders of free speech start beheading Muslims and blowing up Muslim embassies, could I then say that Muslims shouldn't come crying?

Sure, if you want whats happening in the Middle East and no Israel, knock yourself out.

Originally posted by DarknStormy


People can say what they want but whats the point of insulting someone whether you believe in their god or not?

So insults should be banned? Erased from the lexicon?

Where do we start?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by skalla

 

Bankers are the aspects of 85% of our woes and the Medici's created modern banking.

i've got firewood and a lighter, do you have rope?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by DarknStormy


People can say what they want but whats the point of insulting someone whether you believe in their god or not?

So insults should be banned? Erased from the lexicon?

Where do we start?

Insult who you choose but when they start doing irrational bs because of it, who to blame? You or them?

Originally posted by DarknStormy


Insult who you choose but when they start doing irrational bs because of it, who to blame? You or them?

Them.

Or do I get a free ride the next time someone insults the Pope and I wallop them over the head?

Heres all you need to know about freedom of speech and Islam......

Iran Aressts 5 while in prayer

“There has been a noticeable increase in the harassment, arrests, trials and imprisonments of converts to Christianity, particularly since the beginning of 2012," Kankhwende said. "Any movement that differs from or offers an alternative to orthodox Shia Islam, and any persons who chooses to follow an alternative belief system, are interpreted as a challenge to the very state itself.” Read more: www.foxnews.com...

get that? Their beliefs are a challenge to the state itself, because the state is an ISLAMIC state......


Iran is hard line islam, with the modesty police and everything else in full swing..........

They are the epitome of what the nation of Islam wants as its ruling governance........

There is only free speech in islam if it does not offend islam........they can however do whatever they want it seems

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by DarknStormy


Insult who you choose but when they start doing irrational bs because of it, who to blame? You or them?

Them.

Or do I get a free ride the next time someone insults the Pope and I wallop them over the head?

I never knew the pope actually represented a religion... Moneys not a god.

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by DarknStormy


Insult who you choose but when they start doing irrational bs because of it, who to blame? You or them?

Them.

Or do I get a free ride the next time someone insults the Pope and I wallop them over the head?

I never knew the pope actually represented a religion... Moneys not a god.

*Internet*

WALLOP

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Insult who you choose but when they start doing irrational bs because of it, who to blame? You or them?

Them.

It is amazing the way some Muslims (practicing or not) will argue that Islam should be above criticism and if people do criticize it, Islam is justified in responding with violence.

What an intolerant and violent form of Islam you are presenting. Most Muslims don't agree with violence against people who insult Islam.

reply to post by ollncasino


you can transfer that to to the chippie at chucking out time tho..

or the multicultural kebab/chicken house...

just dont come crying if someone tries to jump on your head, though i would do my best to pull them off you and patch you up

reply to post by ollncasino


Your in America yeah? Muslims can move to America if they need freedom of speech or what ever their needs are. You can't go telling other countries what to do though unless you invade them and turn them into a pile of rubble or something. I have heard this all before with Libya and even Egypt. The people need a free democracy and what did they get after western intervention? Sharia law. We don't care about the people of those countries unless we are swinging some sort of deal with them and the proof comes with our alliance with Saudi Arabia who are possibly the most brutal dictatorship in the world. Well after Nth Korea apparently..

Islam are never going to change whether we enjoy freedom of speech or not. They are strict religious countries and follow their religious laws to a tee. Unfortunetly, its just the way things are.. Even if you were to occupy Iran or Syria, they would simply turn on you because they couldn't give a rats ringhole about your views. They see our way of life as a blasphemy or something, maybe they have seen this crap before, who knows but when it comes down to it, we can rubbish them, bomb them, even rape every one of them, they still won't change.. They will follow that book and they will fight for that book just like you fight for human rights.

They are not American, British, French, Australian. They are Islamic and believe it or not there book warns them about these times.. They know exactly whats going on right now and they aren't going to put up with out bs when it comes down to it.. If Muslims want the freedoms or westerners, they are free to move to our countries and even the likes of Iran will happily move them on.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Insult who you choose but when they start doing irrational bs because of it, who to blame? You or them?

Them.

It is amazing the way some Muslims (practicing or not) will argue that Islam should be above criticism and if people do criticize it, Islam is justified in responding with violence.

What an intolerant and violent form of Islam you are presenting. Most Muslims don't agree with violence against people who insult Islam.

What Muslims are you talking about? The Western Muslims or the Middle East?

Originally posted by DarknStormy

What Muslims are you talking about? The Western Muslims or the Middle East?

The Western Muslims. The majority reject violence in defending Islam.

For instance, even in the arguably more radical age group of 18-29, the majority of young Muslims reject suicide bombing of civilian targets to defend Islam.

Support for Suicide Bombing of Civilian Targets Among Younger Muslims Polled (aged 18-29)

USA 26%
UK 35%
France 42%
Germany 22%
Spain 29%

Pew Research Poll (2007)

Admittedly, support for suicide bombing in France (42%) and the UK (35%) is worryingly high but I am sure they will become less radical with age.

Overall, amongst all Muslims polled, the support for suicide bombing was much lower.

Support for Suicide Bombing of Civilian Targets Among All Age Groups Polled

USA 13%
UK 24%
France 35%
Germany 13%
Spain 25%

Pew Research Poll (2007)

Clearly, American Muslims are a more moderate group with only 13% supporting the use of suicide bombings against civilian targets sometimes or rarely to defend Islam. 78% of American Muslims argue that suicide bombings are never justified in defense of Islam, an overwhelming majority.

Even support for killing people who criticize Islam is low.

• 1 in 8 British Muslims support demonstrators who call for the death of those who insult Islam
ICM Research

• 1 in 8 American Muslims polled believe that Muhammad's critics should face the death penalty.
Link

It is wrong to paint Western Muslims as a violent bunch who react aggressively to criticism of Islam. Only a minority do. I suspect that the minority are an embarrassment to the majority who just want to get on with their lives like the rest of us.

Link

reply to post by ollncasino


Look, Have you heard about Muslims losing their Islam? Western Muslims come under that category.. Maybe they should read their Koran again.. They are considered and treated as Westerners now. The same as a Westerner going to Iran and being labelled a terrorist.

reply to post by mideast


People are free to insult if they want to.

People are free to insult Jesus.

People are free to insult Mohammad.

People are free to insult Zoroaster.

People are free to insult Thor.

People are free to draw Jesus.

People are free to draw God.

People are free to draw Mohammad.

People are free to draw Allah.

People are free to draw Odin.

As long as it does not incite hatred or violence, I am free to say that I think Mohammad was a paedophilic weirdo. I am free to and there is nothing you can do about it - if you want to live in 7th century societies, you're more than welcome to live in Pakistan or Saudi.

Some western people grew up together with democracy. It irritates when something/someone forbid them to speak freely.
Muslim has one ideal figure, Muhammad. They'll be insulted when people insult their ideal character.

It's like kids insulting each other's father. So silly. Thinking that their father was the best, instead of realizing that what can make the everything better is you, yourself.

God (or coincidence of natural occurrence for the atheists) gave you conscience, rationale, and feeling. The universal values. Think and feel. Why not everyone agree with free speech? Why some people hate your religion? Why some of my people choose to side with the people across the battlefield? Why some people sacrifice their pride to stop the war?

I am a Catholic living among the Muslim, the Hindu, the Buddhist, the protestants. I know well who you are, who you were. I know well how people think.








As for why western people want free speech and the Muslim is afraid of the free speech,

Western people are used to listening to people. They rise from the infamous medieval monarchy into democracy. Free speech is a form of appreciating other through criticizing each other (both in a good or a bad way), not a way to bring people down, even in debates.

Middle east, where the Islam came from, the people there tend to protect what's already good in their culture. Some men in there are impulsive, some say that it was because of the climate. Those sudden changes could damage the society, so the people made the rule almost absolute. And coincidentally the rule was derived from the existing rule, the religion's.

main article,
Tell that to those Christians and others in Islamic jails being persecuted for their beliefs. You know those failed states caused by the horrid teachers of Islam, the worst teachers on the planet that paralyze states and nations with sophistry that can never demonstrate itself as true and worthy by the fruits.

Islam is about to suffer extinction by the greatest demonstration of the truth that this planet has ever seen from the beginning, from the foundations of the world associated with the tree of life.

They do not have the witness of the truth at the end quite the opposite, the Most highs will not speak through Islam because of their horrid fruits to the spirit of mankind throughout the world.

Take this for example so much for free speech by a killer religion by the fruits.

Over 100 houses and shops of Christians burnt in Lahore, Pakistan
www.globaltimes.cn...

utterly evil and deceived by the devil.

don't give me none of your sophistry that will never stand before the judges of personality existence, the ancients of days.

The religion is already judged and found unworthy by the fruits.

You better start repenting now because the end draws near and there is no other escape from lying and cheating man of his heritage.
.
Based on Universal law and the law from the foundations of the world Muhammad never survived and those who live like him by the fruits will not survive. Repent and change your attitude and enough of these crafty devices in deception. You have no got the witness.

reply to post by sevens8


How ca you judge Islam when you don't know what is written in the Koran? Do you believe its all about pedophilia and moon gods slaughtering each other or something? How does what is written in that book get the blame for mans pathetic actions? Maybe we should burn every bible for every life that has been taken in Iraq. How about the Crusades? How about Vietnam? There would be none left on the face of the planet.

reply to post by mideast


SALAM ALIKUME brother ... I come to this thread with blind eyes.. sadly because no mater what you say here the majority of members on ATS. Cannot see the simplest understandings of Islam. They will take any peaceful sincere, pure statement and find any flaw to exploit it. Simply because they just don't. Understand.

I can say this with onehundred percent assuring words. Because I used to think with the same closed mind when it came to Islam. I would listen and take in hand me down rubbish about Islam and use it in arguments. Most of wich I found on the Internet. It was not until I started reading the QURAN for my self, did I realize, not only how wrong I was., but how wrong most of the information on the Internet was.

See people in the US. Have this islamphobia .primarily because of the media and these hand me down story's .but its not their fault. The only fault is the ones who do not take the time to read and research the QURAN.

You know brother ALLAH (SWA) says in the QURAN that he has placed a seal over the hearts of the unbelievers .you can tell them all you want but they still wont believe. Now the beauty of this. Is that this seal can be broken.

And for all of you who are wondering why does this seal vail the hearts of the unbelievers? . Ill tell you .. its to protect you unbelievers from the disinformation about Islam . So in other words believe the hand me down rubbish. So that when the time comes for you to see the truth. You will know its the truth. And the seal on your hearts will be broken.
Islam

Originally posted by ollncasino
Harris Zafar, National Spokesperson for Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA, claims in the Huffington Post that Islam doesn't deny freedom of speech or attempt to censor those who insult Islam.

The ultimate goal of Islam is to unite mankind under a single banner of peace...

I don't know much about Islam, but I was under the impression that the ultimate goal of Islam was submission to Allah.

Maybe Islam is like other religions, where you get to invent your own version of it if you wish or if you don't like the way the religion is run.

Mr. Zafar's Islam sounds like a political movement to me.