Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

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posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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Reconciliation is an accomplished fact. It is entirely outside of yourself, and it is simply to be received. There is a new view of living, no longer for self, but for God; to die to self and live to Christ.

God has taken the initiative to reconcile man back to himself. God is not reconciled to man, as though God were partly to blame for the enmity. Rather, man is reconciled to God, for it is man who moved away from God. When people need to be reconciled to one another, it normally involves a situation where fault lies on both sides to some degree. Not so with the case between man and God, man has moved away from God, and it is man who needs to be reconciled back to God, not God back to man.

The basic idea of reconciling is to change or make otherwise. This is the reverse of Hellenistic religion, where it is the human being that seeks restoration of the gods’ favor, and also of Judaism, where confession of sin and repentance are the means by which reconciliation with God is sought. It is not that we must reconcile ourselves to God. Rather, we are to be reconciled, that is, to accept what God has already achieved.

It is not merely that we acquire a right standing or do good works; we actually become righteous. For through what Christ had accomplished, we truly assume his righteousness, just as Christ assumed our sin. If our debts are not posted to our account, it is because someone else has legally assumed them. Christ righteousness ours, and our sin his.




posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by newnature
 



Reconciliation is an accomplished fact. It is entirely outside of yourself, and it is simply to be received. There is a new view of living, no longer for self, but for God; to die to self and live to Christ.


First he has to reconcile with me for forcing the necessity for my reconciliation. He screwed me over from birth. Here's how I see it: he planned my birth without asking me. He designed my whole life without asking me. So either he gets his sorry butt down here and explains things to me like a real daddy should, or I do things my way, hell or no hell.

Is that so unreasonable?



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



You're a hard case, AfterInfinity.

Here's how reconciliation goes:

dirt --> [God makes it into] --> a body

body --> [God gives it a bit of His Spirit/Breath] --> a soul

soul --> [God gives it more Spirit (the Earnest)] --> a justified soul

justified soul --> [God gives it the full Spirit after death & resurrection] --> a Glorified Soul

Job done, rest and eternity ensue.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by newnature
 

If our debts are not posted to our account, it is because someone else has legally assumed them.
No.
The "debts" were obligations to follow the precepts of the old law to gain a sort of legalistic righteousness through works, the "works" being those obligatory fulfillments.
What Jesus did was to destroy those obligations by creating a new sort of replacement for the Law, which is described by Paul, as Faith, which is something that comes from believing in Jesus, with the spirit that God gives us through Jesus, that leads us to righteousness, a true righteousness that actually helps other people, rather than empty rituals.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I think the OP is equating sin with debt. Did you miss that?



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 

I think the OP is equating sin with debt. Did you miss that?
The first part of the sentence, "If our debts are not posted to our account," takes care of the "sin debt". It just gets forgotten.
There is no longer a requirement to pay.
There isn't a great cosmic law that says that the sins have to be paid, somehow, by someone.
Paul said that before there was the Law, there was no knowledge of sin.
If the Law was done away with, not keeping the Law is no longer being recorded onto the 'account ledger'.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by newnature
 


A father places two cookies before his four year old son. The father says to the boy, "You may eat of this cookie, but you must never eat the other one."

The father leaves the boy alone, and when he returns he finds that his son has eaten both cookies. Now, is it the boy's fault that he ate both cookies, or is it the father's fault because he should have locked the other cookie away? I say it's the father's fault.

God might as well have said to us, "I have made you to be lustful after beautiful men and women, but don't be lustful. I have made you to be greedy, but don't be greedy. I have made you to be envious of your neighbor's goods, but don't be envious." Now, is it man's fault that he is lustful, greedy, and envious, or is it god's fault for giving us these traits in the first place?

I say it's god's fault and he must reconcile himself to us. Remember, he is the one that made us imperfect, and demands that we be perfect. In any other situation of father and son like this, the father would be charged with child abuse.

I just thank gawd that there is no biblical god.
edit on 3/10/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 




dirt --> [God makes it into] --> a body

body --> [God gives it a bit of His Spirit/Breath] --> a soul

soul --> [God gives it more Spirit (the Earnest)] --> a justified soul

justified soul --> [God gives it the full Spirit after death & resurrection] --> a Glorified Soul



1glo·ry
noun ˈglȯr-ē
plural glories
Definition of GLORY
1
a : praise, honor, or distinction extended by common consent : renown


There's more than one way to achieve spiritual glory.


"There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain,
telling everyone else that their path is wrong." - Hindu proverb


I say that all the power in the universe shouldn't rest on the shoulders of a single ruler, especially one that behaves so human and places itself above all other things. No king separates himself from his people so completely. The only logical reason is that his presence would bring our destruction. Has anyone ever thought of that? So maybe we're supposed to evolve. Maybe we're supposed to become godly, so we can finally touch the beginning of everything, so we can finally overcome division.


edit on 10-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by newnature
 


A father places two cookies before his four year old son. The father says to the boy, "You may eat of this cookie, but you must never eat the other one."

The father leaves the boy alone, and when he returns he finds that his son has eaten both cookies. Now, is it the boy's fault that he ate both cookies, or is it the father's fault because he should have locked the other cookie away? I say it's the father's fault.

God might as well have said to us, "I have made you to be lustful after beautiful men and women, but don't be lustful. I have made you to be greedy, but don't be greedy. I have made you to be envious of your neighbor's goods, but don't be envious." Now, is it man's fault that he is lustful, greedy, and envious, or is it god's fault for giving us these traits in the first place?

I say it's god's fault and he must reconcile himself to us. Remember, he is the one that made us imperfect, and demands that we be perfect. In any other situation of father and son like this, the father would be charged with child abuse.

I just thank gawd that there is no biblical god.
edit on 3/10/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


So are you saying that it is impossible to overcome the desires of our flesh and pursue only love? Sounds like something religion taught you.

Our purpose is that we have been made to overcome, and the pursuit of love is the pursuit of victory over sin.

jiggerj,

I know you don't believe in all the fancy religion stuff but remain open to something more. Maybe we will never agree on much as it pertains to Christ but can we agree to the following?

If a man/woman pursues love, through actions not merely in thought, he/she will find love? Meaning if I give to the poor will they not pour out their blessings on me showing me love?

The bible says Jesus believed in love more than he believed in his own flesh. He gave up his flesh for his belief in love. What would you give up for love? Whatever it is that you would give up in pursuit of love, do it. If you think it you will never find it, if you do it you will always find it.

I know I have not said anything new but here is where faith starts. If you honesty and earnestly pursue love, you will find God. I don't know how else to say it, it is that simple.

You can overcome because you always have a choice, choose love.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by newnature
 


Everything you have said is the truth. Remain in your study is the best advice I can give you now. Never stop seeking and learning.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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So are you saying that it is impossible to overcome the desires of our flesh and pursue only love? Sounds like something religion taught you.
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


How can you even think this to be a religious point of view when it is prevalent throughout all of nature? A lion is a lion and cannot be a zebra. A beetle is a beetle and cannot be a fish. A human is a human and cannot be anything more or less than a human. To ask a human to pursue only love is to ask a tree to grow only one branch. A tree will always be more than one branch, and a human will always have hate, greed, fear, and selfishness as well as love. A human simply cannot be one or the other, and will always be an unpredictable blend of all emotions.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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Our purpose is that we have been made to overcome, and the pursuit of love is the pursuit of victory over sin.
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Our sole purpose is to spread our seed far and wide, and to eat or be eaten. Nothing more. Whatever baggage we add to our purpose, it is man-made.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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If a man/woman pursues love, through actions not merely in thought, he/she will find love? Meaning if I give to the poor will they not pour out their blessings on me showing me love?
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


If you seek love and to do good deeds it is solely because it is in your nature to do so. And, you would do it even if you'd never heard of a god or Jesus.

There are those that have it in their nature to kill someone rather than to look at them. It is not the fear of god that prevents them from killing; it is the fear of rotting in prison for the rest of their lives.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 




The bible says Jesus believed in love more than he believed in his own flesh. He gave up his flesh for his belief in love. What would you give up for love? Whatever it is that you would give up in pursuit of love, do it. If you think it you will never find it, if you do it you will always find it.


Why do the religious not see the insanity in this? To say that Jesus died for love is to say that a man beats his wife to ensure that his favorite baseball team will win. There is no logical connection between the two:
Death - love,
wife beating - team winning.

If Jesus wanted to show love he would have stayed here and shared his love with everyone. If he is god and he wanted to forgive the sins of man, he would have simply decided to start forgiving sin. In no way did his death accomplish this. In fact, his death accomplished nothing that he couldn't have done in a more nonviolent way.

I cannot pursue 100% love because I am all that defines what it is to be human. I love a little bit, hate a little bit, regret a little bit, proud a little bit... I am all that my chemical make-up has determined me to be; we can be nothing more or less.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





I know I have not said anything new but here is where faith starts. If you honesty and earnestly pursue love, you will find God. I don't know how else to say it, it is that simple. You can overcome because you always have a choice, choose love.


I choose to live my full amount of life as a human. Why do I need faith when I KNOW what I am and what we are according to our nature? If you hurt my family, I will kill you. If you conspire against me, I am your enemy. If you do me no harm, but just don't like me, then I won't try to endear myself to you. That's life!


If you honestly and earnestly pursue all that it means to be human you will experience a richness of life that so few fail to recognize. To seek perfect love, or perfection of any kind, you will have wasted your entire life because perfection will not ever be available on the human menu.
edit on 3/10/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


We can find something resembling perfection as long we just don't try. Perfection is a complete lack of dissatisfaction, which means that the less you want, the happier you are. So the less perfect you want to be, the happier you are with yourself and life.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jiggerj
 


We can find something resembling perfection as long we just don't try. Perfection is a complete lack of dissatisfaction, which means that the less you want, the happier you are. So the less perfect you want to be, the happier you are with yourself and life.


Show me a life with a complete lack of dissatisfaction? This life would be of a man that never struggled. That never faced the death of a loved one. That never lost, and never won anything. That never had enemies or friends. To be human is to be dissatisfied with something, but that just makes the joys in life even more rewarding.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Maybe I am wrong. I seem to have more faith in all men than you have in even yourself. We have 2 choices love each other or kill each other. Either way in the end all that remains is love, whether you believe in it or not.

I do not seek perfect love rather it is perfect love that seeks me. I am not trying to be perfect something inside of me directs me to perfection. All I do is listen to the voice of love that speaks to me. When I do what the voice of love says the result is love, when I don't I go against love.

I have chosen to listen to the only voice of truth, the voice of love. It is a choice we all can make, choose to listen to the voice of love; love is the evolution of the human condition. Haven't we lived long enough against our own evolution?

If we are ever visited by Aliens they can only have arrived here by one of two purposes.
They are as greedy as we are and they evolved technically simply to provide an income since their home planet has ran out of resources.

Or they worked together in love as one man, and collectively decided space exploration was good for man. The things we have accomplished working as 7,000,000,000 is amazing, how much more we could accomplish if we would work as 1.

The technology exists to end world hunger, build housing and infrastructure for people in third world countries to have basic living conditions, i.e. running water, sanitation, heat/AC. The reason all people don't have these luxuries? Because poor people don't have any resources and even if they did exist rich people would simply go in and steal them. They don't have because they don't have money. I wonder if the 1.7 trillion dollar bailout could have fixed this? I'm pretty sure that would be enough to give it a good start.

It is possible to experience humanity to the fullest without hurting others. If you believe anything less than you will have nothing to say when the war that no one escapes begins. The next war will be Nuclear, Chemical, Biological. If you are right this war is inevitable because people cannot overcome themselves in pursuit of love.

I say that collectively all men have the ability to overcome so that peace on earth could be more than a fantasy.
edit on 10-3-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by sacgamer25
 




The bible says Jesus believed in love more than he believed in his own flesh. He gave up his flesh for his belief in love. What would you give up for love? Whatever it is that you would give up in pursuit of love, do it. If you think it you will never find it, if you do it you will always find it.


Why do the religious not see the insanity in this? To say that Jesus died for love is to say that a man beats his wife to ensure that his favorite baseball team will win. There is no logical connection between the two:
Death - love,
wife beating - team winning.

If Jesus wanted to show love he would have stayed here and shared his love with everyone. If he is god and he wanted to forgive the sins of man, he would have simply decided to start forgiving sin. In no way did his death accomplish this. In fact, his death accomplished nothing that he couldn't have done in a more nonviolent way.

I cannot pursue 100% love because I am all that defines what it is to be human. I love a little bit, hate a little bit, regret a little bit, proud a little bit... I am all that my chemical make-up has determined me to be; we can be nothing more or less.


It is not the death that I look forward too, it is the resurrection. Without the resurrection their really would be no reason to believe in life after death. And without Grace there is no reason to believe that anyone would receive eternity.
edit on 10-3-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 09:07 PM
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I have chosen to listen to the only voice of truth, the voice of love.
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


That is a lie. Not only a lie, but impossible to achieve. Try to take note of how many times on any given day that you have UN-loving thoughts: Wishing your spouse was better at such n' such, screaming at the driver that almost slammed into you, hating your boss today because he's grumpy and taking it out on you, the disgust you feel for the guy on the street who is selling drugs, at your friend needing money again, the fear you feel walking through a bad section of town...

We HUMANS have more un-loving thoughts in a day than the loving thoughts we have in a month. That's life. That's truth. That's being human. To deny it is to lie to yourself.





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