Army suspends tuition assistance program for troops

All along I have been decrying the wars and militarization of society and people have told me that I was being profane in criticizing the armed forces. Where is your patriotism now?

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

ETA - how well do you think recruiters will do these days when they can't pitch money for college?????

edit on 3/9/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)

Actually I think this is a good thing.
People want to end all these wasteful wars, men and women should stop
volunteering and feeding the machine.

Now kids will think twice about joining. But who knows, many join
just for the thrill of a kill.

They aren’t going to be drafting people even though some people could use a wakeup call. The military servicemen and women are at a high standard because it is all volunteer if they start drafting losers then they would become more like street thugs.

It wouldn’t be so bad if there was a way to make all draftee battalions but then they would be looked at as lower class.

Just wanted to chime in with my two cents.

My husband is an active duty Marine and he has been using the Tuition Assistance program to attend college online. His intention was to complete as much of his schooling as possible using this program, so that he would be able to sign over the full GI Bill to our daughter when she reaches college age. This was meant to make things a little easier on her, so that she doesn't find herself buried in the student loan trap that I am currently in. By the time I finish my degree, I will be very in debt, as I am working towards a Masters. Now, with TA being cut, my husband will have to seek out financial aid and student loans in order to finish his degree. (Again, we are determined to save the GI Bill for our daughter). So my student loans, add in his. This TA cut may seem minor to some people but it is really making a big difference.

Furthermore, my 19 year old stepdaughter joined the Marines straight out of high school. Why? So that she could use the TA program and knock out some of her undergraduate work while she serves, so that her expenses won't be so high once she gets out and pursues the career she actually wants. Maybe you can imagine how she's feeling right now.

I don't understand everything about all these cuts, and I'm not trying to say "oh poor military families" or anything like that. I just think that surely there must be cuts that could be made elsewhere (something that does NOT have to do with education in any way). Basically, my entire family is using the military opportunities to prepare ourselves to reenter the civilian world, but now our "leg up" has just been kicked out from under us.

Originally posted by 19KTankCommander
Having been in The US Army (Active Duty) and a recruiter, I believe you are mis understanding the tuition Assistance program with the Army College Fund.

The Army College Fund is part of our Contract when you enlisted, the amounts are different depending oh how many years you serve or your scores on the ASVAB. These are paid out once you leave the Military and attend College or Tech school

The Tuition Assistance is for those who are still on Active Duty that want to further there education to meet their personal goals or Promotional goals, all the classes a Soilder takes are credited (sp) to future colleges and courses set by the American Counsel of Education (ACE).

I have seen them cut these programs before due to budget concerns, the different University that are on Military insulation around the world The Goverment pays them to be there for the soilders as well.

This is nothing new, but a caution though is the States (National Guards) can cut there college funds, this is were a new recurit for the Guard needs to read the find print

edit on 9-3-2013 by 19KTankCommander because: SP

He is correct. And this program is always at the mercy of the buget. Seen it cut off many many times over the years.

Well, with respect to your real world and considerable experience with this system, what is a good way to proceed with it?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You know the saying, you can make numbers look good any way you want them to show a savings, Reading through the report they had talked about a force reduction to the prior 2007 levels, I seen this during the Regean Administration and Clinton, the Army was once 1,000,000 Active duty strong, since 1988, we have reduced the force down to below 1/2 million soilders.

With knowing this, they want to reduce the force to pre 911 strenght, Now with the tuition assistance, I can recall that in my units that I have been with there was maybe 5 of us that were taking the Tuition Assistance out of 100 soilders. If you take a place like Ft Hood, there were at least 45000 active soilders, and that would mean about 9000 of them were using it, but this was not all at once but maybe a course here and there. I never knew anyone that use there full amount in a year. So I would cut the yearly amount from $250, to 200 a year.

A draw down on troops sometime hurt but needs to be done, this is done through Recuriting, if the Recurting Command put a goal of 32000 new recrutis for the coming year, they will have to cut that by12000 or so, Have to look at PERSCOM and how many people are retireing or leaving (ETS)(End Term of Service) the service, this will decided the above number.

The commisaries (Food Store) is a huge benefit to soldiers and there familys, usally save the 1/3 on grocerie bills, but again to stay competive I think they need to raise there rates in the stores so the saving could be about 20%, The BHAS (Basic Housing and Subisites ) is also paid to marred soilders, I believe a savings could be done here, if you look at the chart fo BHAS, I always felt that we could do better here, the system is backwards. A young family should be able to get housing on post first, but this is not the case all the time. This could save money as well.

The other thing is the Retirement pay for all goverment workers and Military, I know they were talking about it but don't know if they did it but 401K's, since mainstream public has moved towards 401K and we all put money into it I think the Military needs to do this as well, for two reasons, would reduce the amont of money that they need for those that are collecting it and the soilder can start a retirement account that he can move, I know of many soilders that spent 10,15 years in the service and got out with nothing, if they had a 401k at least the jorney was not for nothing.

Last thing I would look at is all the DOD personel on the military post, I never seen so many people work so hard to do nothing, we could thin out the crowds and get them to earn there pay, example, had two gentleman down in texas running our tank range, one ran the tower controls and the other was to take care of the targets, if by any chance one of them had to leave the other would not step up to help. The saying of "thats not my job" applies to a lot of the DOD personel.

I can go on and on about this but I will stop here.

Hope this helps a little

Well, while id like to feel real bad, I don't,


taking the incentive away for becoming a paid mercenary(which is basically what our military has become) lent out to the highest bidders, is a plus in my book.

Take away all the incentives lets see how that volunteer army does gaining numbers...........

Personally id turn around and sue for breach of contract. When you sign a contract its not just you who is on the hook, the other person is as well........

Even though it would get shot down it would be a middle finger back to them and would probably make the papers


p.s Not against armed forces,,,i'm against armed forces used for offense when not needed (which seems to be 24/7 past 50 years)

reply to post by 19KTankCommander

That helps quite a bit and I really appreciate your reply. I was hoping you'd come back and take a moment to elaborate some on what you're talking about. The level of detail and information is more than I'd asked in my note. It's sure appreciated to added context and understanding on what is happening. Thanks!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If you need anything else let me know, but I just have to quote Somethng

taking the incentive away for becoming a paid mercenary(which is basically what our military has become) lent out to the highest bidders, is a plus in my book.

I guess this person never been in the military, Get the facts right, soilders that join up are trying to better themself and their families, they are not mercenaries, But I do agree that we need to stop being the World Police.

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

ETA - how well do you think recruiters will do these days when they can't pitch money for college?????

edit on 3/9/13 by solomons path because: (no reason given)

Actually I think this is a good thing.
People want to end all these wasteful wars, men and women should stop
volunteering and feeding the machine.

Now kids will think twice about joining. But who knows, many join
just for the thrill of a kill.

The dislike for the American military, in my view, is short sighted and naive to an extreme. No offense is intended and I don't mean that word as insulting but more on par with Ignorance vs. Stupidity. The former is no insult, the latter most definitely is.

A WORLD lowering it's military and defense levels in coordination would be a wonderful thing and a beautiful sight. Perhaps my children's children can see it in their lives. We sure won't and can't in ours.

The United States disarming and lowering defense capability without coordination and as an individual isn't a smart or positive thing. It's an incredibly ignorant and foolish thing for leadership to be doing. Draw downs on size for budget is one thing.... scratching things like the ability to recruit decent and motivated people or deploying a whole Aircraft Battle Group over budget cuts is insane.

A % of the world has been on the wrong end of American assistance either by intent or by pure bad luck and outcomes no one intended when a thing began. None of that much matters today though, as that % would LOVE to see the U.S. become weaker.....so PAYBACK can be administered in all it's bloody glory ...in our nation as it has been elsewhere. Personally..I think doing anything to encourage or make that easier by an American is outright Treason ... if done knowingly.

ETA - how well do you think recruiters will do these days when they can't pitch money for college?????

I will answer this one qustion first, Recurting Command is Smart the world best schooling for salemenship, think about it your selling the idea of change a person live something that is non-tangable, vs something that is tangable.

I don't think recuriting wil be hurt due to this. when you take an ASVAB test the score determines what jobs you can apply for, back in 1997 the Army up its Army college Fund for those that score 50 or higher on the ASVAB to $40000, prior to that it ws $30000, so knowing this the Army will just adjust the College Fund, know you also have the standard GI BILL, which is usally about 1/2 that to all those tha don't score well 49 and below.

The sales pitch for schooling, back in 1997 was a tool used mostly for those that wanted to go to school, but 70% of the potential recruits came in and wanted to join, then found out what thery were going to recieve after they joined, but on the flip side you had college kids coming in wanting to join and there was a program called Tution Repayment" can't rember the dollar amounts.

So over all I don't think the recruiters will have any trouble.

No about this

The dislike for the American military, in my view, is short sighted and naive to an extreme.

When I was doing my travels around the World, CNN, ABC, and all those other new agencies never were around when someone came up and personally thanked you for being there, had this done in Germany Prior to the walll fell down, had this Done In the middleast, more than I can count on both hands and feet, also had this done in Korea my locals. So I believe that the US News does not promot good things but always focus on bad things, Its allways easier to rember the bad things than the good when it comes to World news.

A % of the world has been on the wrong end of American assistance either by intent or by pure bad luck and outcomes no one intended when a thing began. None of that much matters today though, as that % would LOVE to see the U.S. become weaker

I two believe that there are some contries out there that have been on the wrong end of the American Assistane but most of those contries wanted our help, Exampl someone on ATS was asking why we are not Helping Bangladesh. What I am tired of is Contries asking for help we help, we pay them for damages and then they turn around and bad mouth us. Like I said as being a former Soilder I was tired of being the World Poilce, but know other contries are look at us like we are a CASH COW.

We need to take care of our own first.

reply to post by 19KTankCommander


Did you just say that the way we should cut money in the military is to, raise prices in the commissaries, cut BAH, and eliminate our current retirement system? After all those examples waste and abuse that were shown. Thats crazy. All of those things are some the best, most important programs the military has.

The commissaries prices are already not that great. In my experience the "you save 30% shopping at the commissary" is way overblown. You can find alot of the products cheaper at Walmart or a similar grocery store same brand or generic. The big savings come from milk, eggs, meat and bread. I used to buy the rest of the stuff at stores off post to save money. The families overseas who dont have an alternative to the commissary will be the ones hurt by this.

Cut BAH. The people that need this the most are the young married soldiers. They are also the ones who are last to get housing on post. Ive seen housing list 2 years long for on post housing. By the time you come up for housing its about time to move to another post. Top that off with overpriced rent on houses and apartments near military bases. Most military towns have a good system set up to overcharge the military for housing.

Just because the civilian population has been duped into 401ks doesnt mean we should force our military into it. Ive seen many, many midcareer soldiers ready to throw in the towel and leave the army. The only thing that stops them is the 8 or 10 yrs they have left until retirement. Do away with the retirement and youll see a drain on quality NCO's and officers. Especially when they know they can just role over a 401k into the next employer. Compound that with the fact that you could wake up one morning and find the next bubble had burst and your retirement fund had just lost 40% wouldnt be good.

Instead of further cutting of programs that help the average military family, I suggest

Congress and Senate stop using the military as there personal pork project. Ordering equipment they dont need or havent asked for (like the 300 tanks I saw on the daily show recently)

Implement a better supply and turn in program. Alot of units have equipment they dont need and cant get rid of. Other units need equipment and cant get it.

Stop contracting out things that soldiers can do (another example of pork). In 1992 I trained 3 civilian contractors in Kuwait to do my job when I left. They were making 4 times what I made at the time.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


God damn this sucks. I am planning on enlisting soon and this is a kick in the teeth for me. It wont effect my decision to join, but it may change my enlistment time. I want to be an officer and if they wont help me with school to make it happen, I will just do 4 years and take a break for school. If when I am done getting my degree, and I still feel like it Ill re-enlist. If not screw it, Ill get a job in what ever I study.

This is retarded though, considering the other crap we aren't cutting.

you save 30% shopping at the commissary" is way overblown.

reply to post by Kronar


Back in the day the priceing was cheaper at the commisy, I know about the overseas commisary as well since I have lived in 5 different contries myself on military insulations. There is a way to keep the commisay running but we don't have all the facts to judge what needs to be done.

Cut BAH. The people that need this the most are the young married soldiers.

What I am refering to in this is the system is backwards, example during my tours a private was luck to be getting $350 for houseing and could not get on base quareters where a E-5 thru E8 made between $500- $900 dollars for houseing, these folks could afford to live of base, my suggestion is to look at the BAS and correct it.

Just because the civilian population has been duped into 401ks doesnt mean we should force our military into it. Ive seen many, many midcareer soldiers ready to throw in the towel and leave the army. The only thing that stops them is the 8 or 10 yrs they have left until retirement

If you look at the statstics on ETS and by rank you will see that from E-6 and below don't hang around to long maybe 1 tour and 1 re-enlistment. So what do they have to show for 2-10 years of service Nothing, why not have a 401k plan for them. Talking about quality of soldiers why is it that the good officers are always RIFED (Nice way of saying FIRED) and the Good NCOS get stuck in the same postion and don't move up the ladder, OH yeah once you reach the level of E-6 and above promotions are done through a promotion board that is overseen by congress on how many troops can be promoted going through PERSOCOMS numbers, I know the system. And personal I seen a lot of officers and enlisted that did not a whole in the ground when they seen one.

Things can be better on posts to help soldiers but like you said there is pork there, what ever happens to the Moral and Welfare fund that is to be funded my any and all reasturants that are on post, why is this program always broke?

I agree that we need to look at more than just the tution Assistance to find place to cut money but done in a smart way were we don't degrade our soilders any more.

But I thought that this was what you people wanted.

Less state sponsored socialism.

In the US of A, everyone should PAY for their own education, you commies.

Hmm Further cutting tuition for assistance.....

Further cutting of military pay.....

and the hashing of military benefits......

Couple that with the inefficiency of the VA

And id say that this Obama/lib gov is as anti military personnel as you can get.......

Listen up Obama admin.........those are some very very dangerous enemies youre making.........

And then you want to go ahead and mark them as potential terrorist when they come home........One could see why

Originally posted by Ismail
But I thought that this was what you people wanted.

Less state sponsored socialism.

In the US of A, everyone should PAY for their own education, you commies.

edit on 10-3-2013 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

benefits being on a payroll is a hell of a lot different then free crap for people who will not work.......

Sorry not even in the same realm of thinking...........

How bout next time you stop and think critically before spouting off

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

And yet, they keep saying how the military wants "the best and brightest". . . . As long, as that doesn't get in the way of building Resettlement Camps or supplying terrorist orgs with weapons, apparently.

Most of the people in the military are morons. That's not to say bright one's aren't out there, but usually the real "best and brightest" are swooped up by the military at a very young age. The rest of the bright kids usually look elsewhere for opportunities. You don't need to enter the military for financial assistance if you are really bright and dedicated.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Oh, right.

How silly of me to compare the state handing out money to people so that they can acquire new qualifications in between jobs, with the state handing out money to people so that they can barely survive in between jobs.

You are right, that *was* foolish.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Hmm Further cutting tuition for assistance.....

Further cutting of military pay.....

and the hashing of military benefits......

Couple that with the inefficiency of the VA

And id say that this Obama/lib gov is as anti military personnel as you can get.......

Listen up Obama admin.........those are some very very dangerous enemies youre making.........

And then you want to go ahead and mark them as potential terrorist when they come home........One could see why

I understand exactly what you're saying, but I'm wondering if the current admin is shifting its strong arm to domestic issues. I think previous 'threats' to the US going back to as early as WWII were not really threats as much as excuses to build up the military industrial complex. The current real threat to the regime is a pissed off home front that is sabre-rattling about taking up arms against the federal government (understandably if you ask me).

This is clearly evidenced by increasing infringements on the Constitution and many Bill of Rights issues like 4th amendment free zones, restrictions on personal firearms, control of agriculture and medical industry, taxation, and others. To enforce all of this bunk, the fed needs a strong home team, like FBI, DHS, federal marshalls, armed IRS, etc., all of which have been bolstered exponentially recently.