All people really want to be is Slaves or be the Enslavers.

reply to post by arpgme

My point was, you can believe things but that doesn't make it so. If I am a bird in a cage, I can believe I am free, but am I really? No. Somebody put me in there, if I were free I'd be able to fly around like a bird naturally does...

Your example is misleading in context of the argument you are making that is "teach people to think like free people".

So who gets to teach them what freedom is, is it me, you or other posters, or everyone and anyone in the world who feels like having a go at it. People can never achieve freedom by listening to other persons teachinsg on it, they must look for freedom themselves. They start this quest by looking within themselves and asking themselve what if freedom. The inner looking into the self is where the true light of freedom is not out there in the presence of shadowy form.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

How would you classify people who want equality and freedom for all... such as the founding fathers who broke away from the repressive British Empire to create a free republic.

A lot of them were slave owners........so your statement is incorrect.

reply to post by WaterBottle


they also created the illusion of a free republic that is still swallowed to this day, but that's another thread

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Another thing to consider is how do we know what freedom is or anything for that matter without context. To know what freedom is one must know what they need to be free from. Without context things would just "be" and there would be no labels to define what is what.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

My vindication is not an issue anymore I lost ego years ago,I just want solitude from the offensive masses,I am married but a loner, just a handful of friends I trust with many aquaintances. Honor is real and so is my America. If you saw me you would be nervous if I don't smile.I'm one of those wild eyed long hair types.A head banger who didn't bother to age...I didn't think I would have lived this long.

Yeah, I couldn't think of a better way to say it so I put "vindicated" in quotes...I have similar thoughts as you regarding how to live but in everyday life I still have to interact with the "offensive masses" - I see this slave/enslaver mentality 24/7 and it makes me laugh and scream at the same time.

CJ

reply to post by ThePhysicalExperience

Another thing to consider is how do we know what freedom is or anything for that matter without context. To know what freedom is one must know what they need to be free from. Without context things would just "be" and there would be no labels to define what is what.

Good point again. This is not a straight forward question to answer as we are not implanted with these thoughts at birth, and we dont have any ideas of what limits are when born. My view is that everyperson in life needs to be taught only one thing about freedom. This is look within youself to find it.

I see many many people on internet trying to tell people what freedom is and with some very appealing ideas to back it up. I think following them will only lead to someones elses version of what freedom is. I have had first hand experience of listening to people who think they are deities and are obligated to show humanity what freedom is. To be fair to these people they mean well but they dont realise something they are not free themselves. The cornerstones of their belief is that they need to tell inform humanity what freedom in, and not realising this behaviour being itself the very intent of control. Yes what im getting at is there are people in the world who think they know whatsbest for humanity but havent realised they are the victum of subjugation themselves and arnt free. A subjugated person is not free and cant tell anyone about freedom with potentially harming their soul evolution.

Everyone must find freedom themselves and then once they find it teach the next generation the same message to look within yourself to find it.

I hope this all made sense.

My belief in this matter is very Freudian, in that people are ruled by their subconscious animal instincts, and to this day we really don't understand or acknowledge this very basic fact and how big of a part in plays in human nature. People are driven (instinctually) to seek social proof, and just about everything we do is a function of that instinct. As social primates, it is in very nature to adopt what we view as 'leaders' in different aspects of our lives, just as it is in our very nature (for most) to follow these leaders. The rebels usually end up outcast, but this in itself is also natural, as this is the natural way of checks and balances.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I played the duality/polarity game until it served no more purpose for that particular experience. I have found my understanding in all matters has exponentially increased by staying neutral and observing. This is not to say i am never positive or negative, however i just use them as the tools for the particular encounter that presents itself. Why wield one tool when you can wield three.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


People who haven't experienced adversity are so irritating. I listen to all opinions(I sure as hell don't know it all) but when they take in information without experience I jump on them for it.And don't get me started on the PC crowd,One can elucidate humor with rapier wit as well as repel such lost souls with the appropriate use of "F" bombs and usually they go away.
Then throw in the fact I am a cav recon vet and most progs would like me killed or detained for the safety of the general populace.
I do find them offensive to my family's martial heritage,self respect and American traditional values.
Contradictorily I am a master debaucher or was until my lungs went wonky.99% who know me well are happy with me but the others are usually smart enough to shut up,they NEVER win arguments with me without cussing as I go "Spock" on them to amuse myself as they melt down,great show to watch.
Try to enslave me, I bite back hard,Pick on a lesser person, I want to joyously injure you,I have a pathological dislike for bullies.I suppose that is why my first wife used to be able to beat me.The thought of injuring her would have killed me.
I have the advantage of not being a liar,mistaken ,but I will always tell the truth as I understand it,and will always love America,not the leaders.
That flag is ours,not theirs.

Great observation, s&f!
I want to add something else: it's not just about domination which is everywhere in this world (it was present here long ago before our race). Even on a singular level, as individuals, we are not in unity within ourselves. There's that fight over domination inside each of us among various parts that together make our "personality".

Well, you are basically right. The Chinese even have a divining system based on this, the I Ching, which uses "- -" to represent yin (feminine) and --- for yang (masculine).

A symbol in the I Ching will have three layers like this, for example:
- -
---
---

And these are achieved by flipping 3 coins:
In a situation like (Yin) (Yin) (Yin) the system becomes unbalanced and returns to (Yang Yang Yin). (Yin Yin Yin) would be a state of stagnation and decay, while (Yang Yang Yang) would be a state of oppression, and (Yang Yang Yin) would be a productive state with a decent balance, and (Yin Yin Yang) would be a relaxed state with decent balance.

See, when people start acting too individually without thinking of society as a whole, this leads to societal decay, which then leads to revolution into a young, growing society.

This idea of cycles is not a new one.

reply to post by darkbake


Meanwhile, is it possible of breaking out of the roles of being submissive or dominant? It is totally, if you grow up into a healthy adult. That healthy adult thing is theoretical and not going to happen 100% of the time, but -

Seriously, at least some of the time - most of the friends I hang out with, I am on even terms with, there isn't a power struggle, unless it is a friendly one, like "Hey I am going to be Dungeon Master" and "Oh? Well, you are good at it"

Ah but then - once you have kids or are a teacher or something, you may find yourself in a leadership role whether you like it or not.

In the end, leadership roles don't have to be suppressive! There is a benefit to having a leader and a society, and a wise leader will help his or her followers grow - a more neutral (and perhaps wiser) leader may simply inform them of the consequences of their actions and let them decide for themselves, or base his or her leadership on the input of his or her community.

And then there is the male / female relationship, which these days is basically just a romantic relationship between two people - for some reason, romantic relationships do tend to have that, but hopefully for anyone involved they resolve themselves well and are balanced and no one is abusing anyone.

My current situation involves me preferring to date women who are strong and independent, so they would be more dominant types.

reply to post by darkbake


The idea of being a slave, slaver or outcast seems to cover all the possibilities, but in the end, there is also the possibility of having enough resources to be independent and existing in a society (or even social group) where everyone else is independent as well (for the most part)

But this only works well in friendships, not as easily in business or romantic relationships (HOWEVER with the feminist movement, if both men and women start to become independent, there could be the potential for more balanced relationships between them) - but romantically, someone has to take lead it seems. Although, it can always be changed up, or be neutral for a bit, I find it hard to imagine a romantic relationship without a leader and follower at least sometimes.

reply to post by darkbake


If you are talking about the government, like I mentioned in the I Ching post, it will tend to follow cycles. Everyone always has the freedom to focus on their own lives and relationships if they wish and do as they will, and this includes applying a personal philosophy to one's life and filling their surroundings with similar people.

However, the OP is right - there isn't any escaping the Yin / Yang relationship forever and completely, but it doesn't always have to be bad, I mean there is a difference between abuse and healthy leadership / relationships, also the intensity of the relationship's control can always be more balanced than polarized, which I prefer.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by AthlonSavage

 

What is your opinions do you agree all people really want to be is Slaves or be the Enslavers?

How would you classify people who want equality and freedom for all... such as the founding fathers who broke away from the repressive British Empire to create a free republic. Or Lincoln, who fought to outlaw slavery. Using your framework, how would you classify such men who already wield great power yet fight for the freedom of those they rule over?

edit on 9/3/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

I love this. By the way, OP is a topic I think about a lot - as you all may have guessed.

Therefore i sometimes will be in control but control to me is not a permanent thing its transitory.

Yeah, same here, but I'm not perfect at this.

I don't know what the game is about, but I can tell you, it's annoying. Deal with it everyday. Do I still have a job, or I am I fired? It is one big headache. Guess I'll find out tomorrow. But what you say, is true. Funny, when they only call me when they need something.

reply to post by Manhater


Kind of like children.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Manhater

 

Kind of like children.

I disagree. Children are ignorant. These people are grown adults who allow themselves to be manipulated.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Does your boss call at 11 PM?

The phone call woke me up.

After today, it felt, like I was like was fired, for giving another boss her time card.

Yeah, god forbid that was. She called main boss in to finish her job.

I don't want to wait to my last minute to have a break. But, I'm in the wrong. And, I don't ask for my 15 Non minute breaks.

So, it must mean, they can't find anyone else to do the job as correctly as I can.

And, they still need somebody. I'm still waiting on the raise I asked for a year ago, let alone be full time. Like, everyone is else.

Done with bullying.

I have treated them nice.

I've have done you're bidding.

It's about time, too do mine.

I am done, simply put, enough to show I am a team player.

I am no slave to the trade.

I've had enough.

Bully, somebody else that will take the #.

Simple as that.

I'm nice, but don't abuse it.

So don't expect my call for help when you need it.

Done, being bullied.

reply to post by Manhater


Yeah. I get work related bs late nights and weekends. Usually not regarding getting fired but something about how if this or that deal doesn't get done there will be problems.

The system sucks. I look at most work environments as extentions of grade school behavior. It is maddening but I need money for my children. I put up with most of it but do not live my life accepting it - I know it is there and it is wrong and I will never treat someone like that ever.

I am the guy who smiles and nods and laughs when you talk about me. I don't care. As long as I can walk out with my job knowing who I am and giving my kids the things they need, say whatever you want. I simply don't care. If you say, "well I would never let someone treat me that way" than you are implicitly acknowledging that this occurs and you have been put in the "enslaved" category. I choose to acknowledge idiots run the show and the fewer waves I make the better chance I have to keep my job. I am no hero when it comes to workplace righteousness nor do I want to be. It never has and never will get you anywhere. That said, of course it is there and of course it is terribly wrong.

CJ