All people really want to be is Slaves or be the Enslavers.

I have been reading many threads on Ats lately where people are debating what truth and morality is, who is evil and who is good, who is real and who is fake. What i find in general is people will listen to arguments which they feel works for them and disagree with arguments which dont. This of course sees some interesting ego clashes, where a internal debate wil rage between one, two or three members each trying to knock the other down. Its sometimes reminds me of a Gladitorial fight going on where at the end the participants crawl wounded back to their lairs to recover lick their wounds.

This brings me to the point i want to raise that life when it boils down to it is a battle of controlling wills. The nature of this battle will find everyone inside some form of fighting arena such as work, home, at the shops, and basically where ever human beings conglomerate togther.

Let the games begin the fight is mostly a psycological one as people fight and joust out with eachother; and where some people will inherently through good circumstances of luck have an upper hand advantage. Therefore its not uncommon to see David squaring off with Golith. Sometimes a pack will form a mutual alliance to take on a bigger threat.

What is this Gladitor game all about? I postulate its about Control and Entertainment.

These biggest survival drivers for human beings is to gain as much control over their environment to improve their chances of existing longer in a healthy condition. In real life terms this is acheived through battling and subjugating foes.

Everywhere we look in life someone is acting in a subjugated role reporting obediantly to someone higher up. In this situation the subugated person has the three choices, plot a strategy to move up the control ladder, or accept servitude. There is a third choice of course to try and hide and isolate oneselfs as best possible from having direct interactions with people.

I also mentioned its also about entertainment because where there is control always is found sporting entertainment. This sport is game of deriving pleasure from manipulating them who are subjugated. This entertainment reaches as cresendo sometimes with the thumbs down and crushing the life out of the subjugated. A sport for Kings and Queens no doubt.

I wonder if in each human their is a little control freak trying to get out and be anointed with control over his/her small or big slice of life.

What is your opinions do you agree all people really want to be is Slaves or be the Enslavers?

Nope I will be left alone,outside the norms reach.Someone doesn't like it they can explain it to me in person.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Thanks for this. I agree. Mini-battles are being waged as we converse. Life is summed up by your one on ones and the pedigree you carry.

CJ

reply to post by cavtrooper7


I hear you cavtrooper, but isn't your shared experience with others what ultimately makes you feel "vindicated" in life?

CJ

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I think you're on the right path but it's not about control, slaves, or enslavers. The attributes you've discovered, so to speak, are just some of the attributes of a much deeper picture. Instead of slaves and enslaver think about concepts and reproducing concepts and what lengths people will go to in order to reproduce or protect their concepts.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

What is your opinions do you agree all people really want to be is Slaves or be the Enslavers?

How would you classify people who want equality and freedom for all... such as the founding fathers who broke away from the repressive British Empire to create a free republic. Or Lincoln, who fought to outlaw slavery. Using your framework, how would you classify such men who already wield great power yet fight for the freedom of those they rule over?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

How would you classify people who want equality and freedom for all... such as the founding fathers who broke away from the repressive British Empire to create a free republic. Or Lincoln, who fought to outlaw slavery. How would you classify such men who already wield great power yet fight for the freedom of those they rule over?

They were men of great views. They wanted out of the british control system. They wanted a land where they could have equal control over a white or black man. They were all great men in their own right as history fairly remembers them, but that doesnt change anything im arguing they still play to the system of controller and subordinate.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


How according to our makeup can it be other wise? Can it?

CJ

reply to post by AthlonSavage


If people were educated to think for themselves rather than regurgitate what they are told they wouldn't find themselves needing external factors to generate their "life energy". Its really just a cycle that one can break with a change of attitude to how they view their own existence. It could be crudely broken down into three categories of people: Oppressors, victims and those that take personal responsibility for their existence. So no not everyone is a slave or an en-slaver, some are just not interested in looking for excuses in their life.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

They were all great men in their own right as history fairly remembers them, but that doesnt change anything im arguing they still play to the system of controller and subordinate.

Well of course, for us to all be truly equal would mean there was no hierarchy in society... which would mean some sort of "anarchy". So the question really comes down to this for me: is it possible to have a functioning society without any type of leaders on top who make most of the important decisions? That would probably make a great debate topic for the ATS debates. I'd probably say it could be done under some sort of decentralized participatory government but it'd be extremely hard and require a large technological component.

But back to the point, I don't think it's really that we prefer to have leaders, but rather it's much less complicated to have leaders make the important decisions for us rather than devising some vastly complex system to give us all an equal amount of decision making power. It may well happen one day when we reach a high enough level of technological advancement, but it's a far way off imo. But I do believe that too much centralization of power is a bad thing, and no one except those in control really likes too much power in very few hands.

I would even argue that the power of a single president / prime minister needs to be decentralized, meaning a group of highly trained individuals in different fields would act in the capacity of the president / prime minster to make decisions. The reason we don't really see anything like that in the world is because we've lived a very long time with elite ruling families and vast monarchies who control everything, and there's always a figure head at the pinnacle. Over the last century we have started to shift a little bit away from that now and I think we will continue to do so.

But it is true that there are extremely powerful forces still working to keep these centralized systems of power in control despite the fact most of us don't really want it. It's really just those in control who seek to perpetuate and maintain the systems of control which they have worked so hard to keep in place for a very long time. In the United States it even seems to be getting worse, the Government is continuing to enact more and more laws which give it more and more freedoms. But I think overall the long term trends we've seen for the last few thousand years are reversing.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


My vindication is not an issue anymore I lost ego years ago,I just want solitude from the offensive masses,I am married but a loner, just a handful of friends I trust with many aquaintances. Honor is real and so is my America. If you saw me you would be nervous if I don't smile.I'm one of those wild eyed long hair types.A head banger who didn't bother to age...I didn't think I would have lived this long.

maybe read this

www.abovetopsecret.com...


i think it better explains what this topic touches on

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
These biggest survival drivers for human beings is to gain as much control over their environment to improve their chances of existing longer in a healthy condition. In real life terms this is acheived through battling and subjugating foes.

In real life there is a hell of a lot more implicit to controlling the environment for survival than battling foes.....

Really I don't even know where to begin.

I wonder if in each human their is a little control freak trying to get out and be anointed with control over his/her small or big slice of life.

We are control freaks.

Not that I agree that's inherently, necessarily, bad.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

We are control freaks.

If you are correct this thread will be a test of that. There will be them who compete control of the debate and them who say one thing and scurry off to avoid direct confrontation. Im watching with interest.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Human beings constantly manipulate the environment. Every time we construct something "man-made", we are 'controlling' the environment, for example. Intrinsic to our [human] conscious experience is the drive to control. We don't need any ATS thread to show this. We are control freaks. All of us, constantly controlling and wanting control. I think what you really mean to say is there are 'right' and 'wrong' things to want to control?

Even in your monk retreating to the cave example. Said person is seeking control over thoughts and emotions. Said monk is, assuming a will to live, controlling various factors to ensure that.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Human beings constantly manipulate the environment. Every time we construct something "man-made", we are 'controlling' the environment, for example. Intrinsic to our [human] conscious experience is the drive to control. We don't need any ATS thread to show this. We are control freaks. All of us, constantly controlling and wanting control. I think what you really mean to say is there are 'right' and 'wrong' things to want to control?

Are you not attempting to impose your will on me now with your views?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I think you missed the point of my posts if you think I would be hesitant to say yes

This is an eye opening video which is called 'The Story of Your Enslavement'.
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You know im a truth warrior itsnowagain i tell it how it is. We are all creatures of servitude.

I think many people make this observation, and use different terminology, depending upon wat particular way they choose to characterize it.

My husbands grandmother always said the world is made up of people who are grass and people who are mowers.
Sometimes you hear it's all conmen and suckers, winners and losers, the strong and the weak.....
"Everyones looking for something.... Some of them want to use you, some of them want to be used by you...", goes the famous song by the Eurythmics.
I work with animals so tend to use terms like "dominant" and "submissive", and "establishing hierarchy."

When we came to the realization as a society, that the subconscious exists and has it's own motivations and ways of achieving them, we came to see that "losers" or "slaves" sometimes choose to be on some level- that screwed up the concept of victim and tyrant.

Even the concept of power isn't so clear, because one can have and manipulate power in less obvious ways, even while being in a submissive position (ask us women, we know that.... though some might deny it, it has to stay secret in order to work......). Being a receptor is often viewed by males as being the loser or the slave (hence so many of our most vulgar insults, which refer to ones orifices being penetrated by another: or being called one of these orifices itself).

But I think looking at it as a battle is sometimes ignoring the other side of it- which is that it is the same thing as sex. Sex can seem violent from the outside too (ever walk in on your parents doing that as a kid???).

It is the act of creation and reproduction. And we have drives to reproduce our genetic material, but also our own thoughts and ideas want to gain reproductive rights and spread their material far and wide too.

Some people tend to think the concept of memes is limited to a particular type of idea, as used in publicity or something. But "meme" refers to an idea or concept...... the concept of a meme is, itself, a meme! Your opinions and views are memes, as are mine.


Just as our physical drives to reproduce are part of the process of evolution and adaptation, so is this drive our memes have. These battles allow the weak and less structured memes to be wiped out and replaced with stronger, better adapted ones.

Watching debate is kinda like mind porn.