The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet

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posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 06:29 PM
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"The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race. In addition, there is no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public's eye."


Phil Larson - White House Office of Science & Technology Policy Friday Nov 4th 2011




But if stories are true then there really is some “incredible” information to suggest that a lot of evidence is being hidden from the public’s eye.


In 1939 it is alleged that Harry Truman’s Secretary of State, Cordell Hull, took his cousin Reverend Turner Hamilton Holt to a sub-basement in the U.S. Capitol building and revealed 4 strange creatures in glass tubes preserved in formaldehyde along with a wrecked craft.

The story came from Holt’s niece.
Source : www.ufocasebook.com...














There is a speculative story involving King Gustavus V of Sweden in 1942 (this was the year that Enrico Fermi had succeeded in creating the chain reaction that made the atom bomb possible). The King was allegedly visited by beings from another terrestrial intelligence, a species who lived underground according to a column in Flying Saucer Review from 1994 (Vol 39 No. 4) .









These “intra-terrestrials” (is that a word?) then warned the King of the danger of splitting the atom and how it had already devastated their civilisation. This inspired him to write to President Truman in 1946. Why the beings didn’t visit Truman himself is a mystery? However if these beings were from inside the Earth then the U.S. Government has not lied to us.

Once World War II was over the Kenneth Arnold sightings began the age of the Flying Saucer and Roswell followed soon after (although things were dampened down firmly and quickly by the US military).


The Ike/ET meeting(s)



There are a number of tales of Ike meeting ET. He was very popular with extra-terrestrials whereas later Presidents may not have been.

The most famous story of a meeting with ET comes from 1954 when it is alleged that Eisenhower had three secret meetings with ET. In Feb of 1954 President Eisenhower was taking a golfing holiday at the Smoke Tree Ranch in California. On the night of the 20th Feb and early hours of the 21st Feb he disappeared.

Once members of the press realised he was "missing" they began to speculate that he had suffered a serious illness or had maybe even died. Presidential Secretary James Haggerty, in an attempt to dampen the rumours, called a late evening press conference to reveal that Ike had eaten some fried chicken earlier in the evening, knocked a cap off a tooth, and had been treated by a local dentist. The President arrived next morning for a pre-arranged early church service, and there the story appeared to end.

However, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest that the dentist story was a cover for something else.

Eisenhower had just been on a hunting holiday in Georgia less than a week after he announced the rather impromptu Palm Springs trip. Eisenhower Library is inconsistent with the dentist story as it details every aspect of his healthcare but has no mention of his treatment over the the month of February. It contains a large file with copies of all sorts of acknowledgements sent by the White House to people who had something to do with the Palm Springs trip. People who sent flowers, people who greeted Ike and his staff from the aeroplane, even people who had offered to play golf, etc. There is even a thank you letter to the minister who presided over the Sunday service Ike attended. Yet there is no record of any acknowledgement having been sent to "the dentist".

Having finally been traced the dentist's widow gave an interview in the 1970s recalling attending a dinner organised by the president where her husband was introduced as "the dentist who treated him" but could not remember any details of how, why and where her husband treated Eisenhower.

The alien meeting rumours started soon after. Some stating Ike had viewed a crashed disc and dead alien bodies at Muroc (Edwards Air Force Base), other stating he'd had meetings with alien species who arrived in 5 different types of craft and demonstrated invisibility and gravity control. They wanted nuclear weapons development to cease in and offered to help with our development of free energy sources. It has also been rumoured that this was rejected and a treaty was signed allowing cattle and human abduction in exchange for alien technology, with the now ubiquitous grey aliens. Something that seemed more of a surrender than an agreement in later years perhaps?

One of the alleged witnesses, Gerald Light, the head of a Southern California metaphysical organization, wrote a letter to Meade Layne, the then director of Borderland Sciences Research Associates. In the letter Light actually claimed to have been at Edwards where he saw Ike, the saucers and the aliens. Light wrote,
click to enlarge

I have just returned from Muroc [Edwards Air Force Base]. The report is true -- devastatingly true! I made the journey in company with Franklin Allen of the Hearst papers and Edwin Nourse of Brookings Institute (Truman's erstwhile financial advisor) and Bishop MacIntyre of L.A. (confidential names for the present, please).[xii]
When we were allowed to enter the restricted section (after about six hours in which we were checked on every possible item, event, incident and aspect of our personal and public lives), I had the distinct feeling that the world had come to an end with fantastic realism. For I have never seen so many human beings in a state of complete collapse and confusion, as they realized that their own world had indeed ended with such finality as to beggar description.”
The reality of the ‘other plane’ aeroforms is now and forever removed from the realms of speculation and made a rather painful part of the consciousness of every responsible scientific and political group.

During my two days' visit I saw five separate and distinct types of aircraft being studied and handled by our Air Force officials -- with the assistance and permission of the Etherians!

I have no words to express my reactions. It has finally happened. It is now a matter of history. President Eisenhower, as you may already know, was spirited over to Muroc one night during his visit to Palm Springs recently. And it is my conviction that he will ignore the terrific conflict between the various 'authorities' and go directly to the people via radio and television - if the impasse continues much longer.

From what I could gather, an official statement to the country is being prepared for delivery about the middle of May.


continued >>>



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posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 06:34 PM
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The government won't even tell you the truth about Benghazi and now i'm expected to believe that if they did actually have any evidence about aliens that they would tell us?

No. They would not. They would say something like "The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet" then proceed to do what they do away from us and our questions.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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A number of other alleged witnesses include Don Johnson, Paul Umbrello, Franklin Allen of Hearst newspapers, Cardinal James McIntyre the Head of the LA Catholic Church and Edwin Nourse of the Brooking Institution.
Although he presided over some of the changes eventually Eisenhower made a thinly veiled attack on the ever growing power of the military industrial complex in his farewell address in 1961.


"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."

Perhaps something was praying on his conscience?

There are other stories of alien encounters at government installations.

Holloman Airbase Landings, New Mexico, May 1971


Robert Emenegger and Alan Sandler, were Los Angeles businessmen invited to Norton Air Force Base in California to discuss a possible documentary film on advanced research projects.
Emmenegger was led to believe that he would be provided with 16mm film of 3 UFOs landing at Holloman Airbase in 1971 for use in his documentary. The audio-visual director Paul Shartle claimed to have seen the film and that it showed three disc-shaped craft. One of them landing and a door opening then three beings emerged.
They were close to human-size with a grey complexion and a pronounced nose. They wore tight fitting jump suits, their headgear appeared to be communication devices, along with a handheld translator. A Holloman base commander and other Air Force officers went out to meet them. In the end permission to use the film was refused although Sandler and Emenegger did use the contents of the film as the basis for a hypothetical look at contact with aliens.
Here is the eventual film narrated by Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame. The section concerned is near the end at approx 1:27:30.

Rod Serling cryptically tells us about a time when official contact is made by stating “Let’s look at an incident that may happen in the future or could have happened already”.
Sources:
www.ufocasebook.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Alien Shot Dead at Ft. Dix & McGuire Jan 1978



The witness, Jeff Morse (pseudonym), alleges that an alien was shot by a Fort Dix MP. The dead body was hauled away on a special aircraft to Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. Afterwards, Morse was flown to Wright-Patterson for a "debriefing," instructed to remain silent, and shortly afterwards transferred overseas, while his colleagues who also witnessed the event were shipped to various parts of the world.



Sources :
www.nicap.org...
www.ufocasebook.com...

Aliens Communicate with Senior Officer Rendlesham Forest Dec 1980



This tale comes from Larry Warren who claims that a craft landed nearby to the RAF/USAF bases of Bentwaters/Woodbridge in Suffolk, England on the night of the 27th/28th Dec 1980. He was one of the airmen ordered to surround the craft as it landed and recalls 3 entities the size of children communicating with a senior officer.
Allegedly the event was videotaped and the tapes sent to USAFE HQ in Germany within hours.

Source : Left at East Gate book
Further Reading on ATS : www.abovetopsecret.com...


Ronald Reagan Comments on ET


The Whitehouse records showed that Ronald Reagan had watched close to 400 movies whilst in office in the Whitehouse or at Camp David. But the one that attracted the most attention is the screening of ET in June 1982 with Steven Spielberg present.
Following the screening the President leaned over to Spielberg and quietly said, "You know, there aren’t six people in this room who know how true this really is."


Sources : presidentialufo.com...

Please remember though that none of this constitutes evidence that the US government (or indeed any government) has proof that life exists beyond Earth’s atmosphere.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 07:02 PM
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Great Thread! Didn't Reagan say a few things through his Presidency that let slip some knowledge of far more than we'd know about in the public?

It's my personal opinion that Atomic detonations or perhaps even just critical mass produces something. Some signature energy or perhaps something we aren't even aware exists yet. To think we know all forms of detectable features of our world is a little arrogant, I'd think. The "Demon Core" accident could have pulsed as easily as Trinity.

Whatever the precise mechanism though, I think it was the threshold of atomic power and destruction we reached that triggered notice. It was right around that time that UFO's moved from what may have been explainable as fanciful daydreaming as much as anything ... to rock solid people reporting physical craft and in detail...frequently.

Alien? I don't know... I don't think anyone does or even can unless humans have been far off-planet with this technology to see, personally, that other home worlds exist. Otherwise, it could as easily be other things or even our own future species coming back in time. After all, in that little paradox, there is a fact that stands. If time travel can EVER happen, say 10 million years of development is what it takes .... EVER ... then it's already happened and continues to happen. From the perspective of those who finally did it, it's all the same and we are living through a historically important time for others to look at ..on many levels.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 07:52 PM
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I still always think that it’s narcissistic to believe that there is no other life out there. With consideration to the shear size and age o the universe, I find it extremely difficult to believe that this planet harbours the only life in the entire universe. As for what politicians say on the subject, how much credibility can they possibly have? How often do they actually tell the truth?



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 08:29 PM
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Omg! Star and flag op, very well done!

I will be back after bit to finish up and comment further, for now though......just outfrickingstanding!



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Didn't Reagan say a few things through his Presidency that let slip some knowledge of far more than we'd know about in the public?








posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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Our government lies all of the time, mostly selfserving and control orientation. But these manicured morons do have a slight point. Now I am not defending any of their agenda, understand this, but they know what would happen to the standard sheep if there was official disclosure. Society as we know it would completely and collectively come unglued, mass stupidity would be the order of the day. Religion would dissolve and crumble, weak minded idiots would do the unthinkable, And the world would go to crap. Think about it this way, the only thing our government has got right in the last 50 years is disclosure containment. Our primitive society is not quite ready as a whole for this level of enlightenment, we are too fragile mentally for such a 'shock' to the system. There are those scholars who believe we are being slowly prepared and tweaked, but it may take a generation or two before the reactionaries will be weeded out. Me, I want to see the proof now, I can take it, my neighbor, not so much......



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 01:43 AM
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Personally I think the reasons that we haven't been told about the Alien presence are many and have changed over time.

Initially the US govt. were worried that they didn't want to admit to the complete inadequacy of their ability to be able to defend against such visitations.

Then of course there are the religious implications.

But personally I think the biggest reason that they don't admit to an Alien presence is to do with Energy.

If the governments around the world admitted the existence of alien visitation it starts people asking questions like, How are these craft powered? And that is the last thing Big Oil wants.

They would have to admit that there is a universal energy that can be accessed and so the need for non renewable sources of energy are no longer required.

It is a basic principle/law of of economics, Supply & Demand.
If there was an energy source that was in infinite supply then there is no need for anyone to pay for energy ever again. Big Oil/Energy companies enjoy their position of power afforded to them by virtue of the energy that they supply, and we are all addicted to.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

Mr Bunny , I like the way you think

You. good sir are a good man



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 05:28 AM
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Atomc blasts have energy factors unseen and unregistered by mankind....
Presumably the cause of many unexplained air disasters when tests were ongoing before the treaty.....
The off world people have to suffer disruptions the the fabiric of their own existence aparently....Wilburt Smith
explains it better than i can...
areas of loose binding.....



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 06:54 AM
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Of course as these are all old stories breaking news they are not. Nor am I claiming your making that claim. I only say that because it truly reflects just how in depth our level of understanding was even back in the 40's and on albeit only a select few.

It's interesting to note that the stories haven't changed all that much from then till now which in of itself is very telling IMO. What concerns me most about these ever elusive beings is well, they're intentially ever elusive......

On almost all of these threads there is a common element from the comments section which typically goes like this:

"Why won't our governments tell us the truth? Why do they hide this information and the truth?!?!"

Stop and think about it a minute shall we? Every story ever written about UFO's is steeped in mystery and obfuscation from the beginning of written words to modern day. All speak to a knowledge far surpassing ours which to a degree they share. Benevolent right? Really?

The Summerians speak of the Annunuki, gave us basic tech.....but...made us there slaves to obtain gold.

Book of Enoch speaks the same. The watchers teach us weapon making, medicine, etc but they also fornicate with our women producing abominations, giants with evil spirits. Niphilim. The Summerians spoke of the Annunuki doing the same. Enki and Enlil both had there fair share that for sure.

Now turn to present day. Night time abductions. Women getting inpregnated. Etc etc, they are still very secretive, the take people against their will. They collude with evil governments. Or is it them that makes government evil?

Don't get awed by there awesomeness. Don't be deceived. Many people come on here and claim to speak on there behalf. Professing to be here for us the people to take down governments and unite us! Whoop Hooooo! But really? I don't see benevolence in their actions and I sure as hell don't see it in their secretiveness. They are not scared of government. Governments are scared of them and for good reason. Who knows, perhaps this is the great deception.....Satan walks freely on earth. In the words of Bart Simpson, "Aye carumba!"




posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by teslahowitzer
Our government lies all of the time, mostly selfserving and control orientation. But these manicured morons do have a slight point. Now I am not defending any of their agenda, understand this, but they know what would happen to the standard sheep if there was official disclosure. Society as we know it would completely and collectively come unglued, mass stupidity would be the order of the day. Religion would dissolve and crumble, weak minded idiots would do the unthinkable, And the world would go to crap. Think about it this way, the only thing our government has got right in the last 50 years is disclosure containment. Our primitive society is not quite ready as a whole for this level of enlightenment, we are too fragile mentally for such a 'shock' to the system. There are those scholars who believe we are being slowly prepared and tweaked, but it may take a generation or two before the reactionaries will be weeded out. Me, I want to see the proof now, I can take it, my neighbor, not so much......


This is exactly the point I was making in my post. People blame government (and I'm no fan of the government) and say we are too dumb to handle it. Please get real, most people already assume, many other recognize the possibility and others know and are frightened, very frightened. If anything it reinforces God and perhaps further galvanizing this realization is the fact that organized religion is completely corrupt. "Greed has poisoned mans soul. Has barracaded the world in hate. Has goosed stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but have shut ourselves in. Machinery that provides abundance has left us in want.....More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness.....By the promise of these things brutes have risen to power. But they don't fullfil that promise. THEY NEVER WILL!" -Charlie Chapmin (summerized)



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 07:52 AM
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And here's a few more snippets about the US government and knowledge of ET.

Nixon, Gleason and Dead Aliens


Nixon presided over the closure of Project Blue Book and is the only President to have seen humanity visit another planet during his term in office.

On January 12th 1972 Oklahoma resident Sherry Eckhardt was trying to speak with her mother on the telephone. However something was interfering with the receiver and she hears a voice say something like : “We issued an alarm … We are getting objects with a radar that appear on the Pacific Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico … Fighters are on the way … An object has fallen into the Pacific Ocean, the fighters were shot down.”

Sherry then tried to redial her mother only to hear “Call the president on the phone!” . She then heard someone sounding very like Richard Nixon speak, "This is probably the most unusual phone call I’ll ever make."
The White House issued a denial stating the President had been working on his State of the Union address. The department of Defense and Norad also issued denials. Holloman Air Force Base, where the scrambled jets originated from refused to comment.

Source: worldufophotosandnews.org...

Another equally incredible story about Nixon exists. Evading his own security, the story has Nixon picking up comedian, Jackie Gleason (a good friend and golfing partner) on February 19, 1973. Nixon then drove him to Homestead Air Force Base where the guard waved them through. Nixon then drove Gleason to a building containing what were obviously non-human bodies in containers.

The source of the story was Beverly McKittrick (Gleason’s ex-wife) . Larry Warren (a whistleblower on the Rendlesham/Bentwaters UFO incidents) also claimed that Gleason confided in him.

George Bush Snr.


Very little exists on George Bush and any connection with aliens. Perhaps because of his CIA background and the fact he was only in office for a single term? Some even believe Bush to be leading member of whatever incarnation MJ12 had grown into when he came to office in the late 1980s.
However one little tidbit exists where Bush broke his silence on the UFO issue


The incident occurred on March 7, 1988, during a trip to a George Bush for President Rally in Rogers, Arkansas. George Bush was about to go into a building to meet with reporters when a UFO researcher approached him by the name of Charles Huffer. In the days before 911, Huffer and his tape recorder were allowed to walk up to the Vice-president and ask him the UFO question all the conspiracy buffs had wanted asked for years.
"Mr. Bush, Mr. President," asked Mr. Huffer (in the excitement of the moment Mr. Huffer called him President). "Will you tell the people the truth about UFOs?"

"Yeah," replied Bush. Then realizing what he has just said Bush added, "If we can find it, what it is. We are really interested."

"You’ll have it, you’ll have it." said Huffer. "It’s in there. (I meant it would be in his briefing when he became president) Declassify it and tell us, ok?"

"OK," said Bush, " alright, yes."
Bush then entered the building where he met with the local Arkansas press. Huffer remained outside waiting for Bush to come back out. When he did emerge from the building, Huffer his tape recorder running told George Bush,
"Going to hold you to that promise."

"Alright," replied Bush.

"OK," said Huffer, "you’re going to get it." (I meant the UFO information)

"Why don’t you send me some information about it? " asked Bush.

"Naw," said Huffer, "you’re a CIA man. You know all that stuff."

" I know some," replied Bush. "I know a fair amount"

Source: www.bibliotecapleyades.net...



What did George Bush have a fair amount of knowledge about?



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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Bill Clinton’s Search for the Truth Out There



Vice Admiral Tom Wilson, who was J2, head of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff was one of those Clinton asked to investigate the truth about UFOs. He actually unearthed code numbers of secret projects that the government were funding but amazingly was told "‘Sir, you don't have a need to know".

Clinton’s first CIA Director James Woolsey was also another who attempted to get to the bottom of the UFO secrets that many have believed are being kept from the public domain. Despite his efforts he declared "They have all told me nothing. They told me, well we had Project Blue Book, but the Air Force closed it in 1969.”

Clinton went as far as ordering trying to get at the truth about Roswell after the original USAF report in 1995 "The Roswell Report - Fact vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert" left out many witness testimonies and did not address the topic of bodies found in the desert.

In his peace address in Belfast he even found time to go off topic and said :


"I got a letter from 13-year-old Ryan from Belfast. Now, Ryan, if you're out in the crowd tonight, here's the answer to your question. No, as far as I know, an alien spacecraft did not crash in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. And, Ryan, if the United States Air Force did recover alien bodies, they didn't tell me about it, either, and I want to know.

The Air Force responded with "The Roswell Report – Case Closed" just in time for the 50th anniversary of the event or indeed non-event they claimed happened. The bodies seen by eye witnesses were apparently nothing more than dummies. Dummies that were not actually put into use by the USAF until the early 1950s according to their very own records.

Clinton, despite his lofty position, found getting to the truth about UFOs as difficult as any other researcher into the topic. In an interview in 2005 he even said.


"Well I don't know if you all heard this, but, there was actually, when I was president in my second term, there was an anniversary observance of Roswell. Remember that? People came to Roswell, New Mexico from all over the world. And there was also a site in Nevada where people were convinced that the government had buried a UFO and perhaps an alien deep underground because we wouldn't allow anybody to go there. And uhm… I can say now, 'cause it's now been released into the public domain.... This place in Nevada was really serious, that there was an alien artifact there. So I actually sent somebody there to figure it out."
"I did attempt to find out if there were any secret government documents that revealed things. If there were, they were concealed from me too. And if there were, well I wouldn't be the first American president that underlings have lied to, or that career bureaucrats have waited out. But there may be some career person sitting around somewhere, hiding these dark secrets, even from elected presidents. But if so, they successfully eluded me…and I'm almost embarrassed to tell you I did (chuckling) try to find out."

However despite being one of the Presidents kept out of the loop, Clinton was perhaps the one closest to somekind of disclosure when on August 7, 1996 he announced the discovery of possible signs of life found in a rock from Mars.



“Today, rock 84001 speaks to us across all those billions of years and millions of miles. It speaks of the possibility of life. If this discovery is confirmed it will surely be one of the most stunning insights into our universe that science has ever uncovered….”


But did others before him already know the truth?



Source: presidentialufo.com...



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 08:22 AM
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Excellent thread mirageman, you like karl12 and isaakkoi seem to be contributing with useful information, I would love to read when I have more time,

The case of Eisenhower meeting with ET or at least, the part with finding and keepind bodies and a ship - I don't see what they would cover with so far fetched stories to be just stories... and I think there may be more than just stories. Good job with the info



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by mirageman
 


The President Eisenhower info is a little off.

Ike met with the Domain Expeditionary Force February 20 - 21, 1954.
The DEF has NO noninterference directive. That gives them the option to play
Lets Make a Deal and sign a treaty.

The treaty was signed.

It took us about a year to build the new underground bases.

Archuleta Mesa , Area 51 ...etc.

Then Ike met with the DEF again February 11, 1955 at Holloman AFB, New Mexico
for only 45 minutes. He gave them the map to new underground bases.
He also discussed with them a warning received from the Pleiadians.

edit on 9-3-2013 by TauCetixeta because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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No evidence is required. All you need is mathematics and some logic.

About extremophiles



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by mirageman
 



In 1939 it is alleged that Harry Truman’s Secretary of State, Cordell Hull, took his cousin Reverend Turner Hamilton Holt to a sub-basement in the U.S. Capitol building and revealed 4 strange creatures in glass tubes preserved in formaldehyde along with a wrecked craft.


In 1939, Truman was not even Vice President yet. Cordell Hull was Roosevelt's Secretary of State. I can only assume the rest of your information is as accurate.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by mirageman
 



In 1939 it is alleged that Harry Truman’s Secretary of State, Cordell Hull, took his cousin Reverend Turner Hamilton Holt to a sub-basement in the U.S. Capitol building and revealed 4 strange creatures in glass tubes preserved in formaldehyde along with a wrecked craft.


In 1939, Truman was not even Vice President yet. Cordell Hull was Roosevelt's Secretary of State. I can only assume the rest of your information is as accurate.


That's an old trick. They change the date to remove credibility.

The correct date is 1947.

2 spacecraft had a mid-air collision July 2, 1947 near Corona, New Mexico.

That gave us the famous debris field on Mac Brazels ranch.

There was a 2nd crash site near Datil, NM.
edit on 9-3-2013 by TauCetixeta because: (no reason given)





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