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posted on Mar, 11 2013 @ 08:25 PM
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REPLY TO AKUSHLA99

vethumanbeing
"So following the logic; Faith has absconded, or relegates itself to being the chocolate cake won during the cakewalk, or as an identifying name written on the seat of one of the musical chairs-All apply: "Doubt" "Faith" "Bumpkin" "Stooge" "Redemption" 'Pluralism" "Moral Turpitude" "Coniver" "Self Deceit" "Intent Pure". That as you call the AXE describes it, accidental/unintended forward motion into an abyss one designed for itself because that is the nature of Soul Growth it HAS TO INCLUDE THE UNEXPECTED trip ups."



akushla99
Yep...precisement...anything else would be 'coersive' (faith, essentially, being a one-man show)...dynamically self-correcting like a missile to its target, zig-zagging with shisho...utilising the negative to describe the positive by deduction (a shallow illustration, but y'all get the point)...doubtful of, faithful of, stooged by, redeemed by, plural in relation to, morals vis-a-vis another, conniving to, SELF deceptive, intent pure towards...'playbook'-fashion, they rely on at least one subject...but another can be made up
...'trip-ups' when your faith wanders (paradoxically, the unexpected becomes part of the film)...

Faith, not so much absconded...but tested on the arena of subjective experience - all mind made up by unitary souls, to ultimately advance the group, the planet, the sector, etc...(tug of war, rowing crew...dependant on the input of all in unison - of faith)


The coersive would be the corrosive factor, Faith; whatever that entails for each and every human individualized Soul is a shout out to you YES a 'one man show'. No one else around to take the heat if the show fails to get good reviews (how do organized religions get away with this; their abysmal FAILURES). Not one of them in unified faith (prayerbegging or wishful knee scraping, toe stubbing) has succeeded in resurrecting Siddhartha, Jesus, Mohammed, and no one can tell me they havent tried or is/was not on the agenda of miracle workings. We work in soul groups, those of our family and friends that have been hanging with each other for centuries; working to undermine current paradyms to change the predicament mankind finds itself in. The ultimate teeder todder tug of war has the world sitting at one end, and just us few on the other, got to be a way to make leverage work in our favor and I have no problem CHEATING.
edit on 11-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 11 2013 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe

Faith, as a term, is the belief in a thing without evidence for it's reality. So to say that faith is faith-based is the exact same thing. I think you just don't like acknowledging that it has no solid basis in reality. Which is a personal fault of your own (or the OPs). But you cannot escape that the things you truly have faith in, you have faith in because you do not have evidence that they are real. If you did, you wouldn't need faith, because you could point them out and say: "See, there it is. It exists. And now you can accept it too." But you can't point it out. I can't hold it in my hand. I can't speak to it, or rest my back against it. It requires faith because it does not exist in reality.


Faith has no basis in non-reality; I have a problem with 'this' percieved reality first and foremost. I dont trust it, I dont like its premise (its participants being lied to) this has been the cornerstone to human existance; all based in untruths or that which is hidden from the truely ignorant innocent. Personal faults? I have none; I do not know what others personal truths entail or what the mechanism was by obtaining them but sometimes once discovered are enough to question ones sanity (got over those reveal-ations--took 4 months). I need no faith other than what I am entrusted to regarding myself AS are my very clear and certain truths, my ultimate vision and my purpose; unshakeable; in other words I NEED NO FAITH BASED PERSEPTION of my reality.


wandering scribe
As for dreams, they are real. In a way. Our subconscious thoughts, desires, and fears, populate our dreams in symbolic representations. If you attach meaning to a person you know, while awake, and dedicate yourself to believing they mean that thing, then your dreams will reflect this. As you work out problems related to that particular meaning, you'll find council in your dreams comes from the particular person you associated it with. Dreams are an amazingly complex system of symbolic associations which can be worked with in innumerable ways. Assuming one has the patience and wherewithal to train themselves.
You work out problems in your dreams. I do not stop there. I think one is out of body. I taste, eat food, feel pain when hitting the ground, for me no different than when conscious; the circumstances x20 more bizarre, (naked walking down a street and wondering why everyone is staring at me); symbolic YES but also interactive realtime more poinant than a month of regular slugging it out with the day to day conundrums. Out of Body NOT dreams are fast tract learning exercises.

edit on 11-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


Now that's not really true wandering scribe. Faith is or believing because of having experienced what can be or believing it without having seen it. Believing it without having seen it is a simple thing. It's also the most profound of faith.


Its also close to the definition of delusion. A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


"The coersive would be the corrosive factor, Faith; whatever that entails for each and every human individualized Soul is a shout out to you YES a 'one man show'. No one else around to take the heat if the show fails to get good reviews (how do organized religions get away with this; their abysmal FAILURES). Not one of them in unified faith (prayerbegging or wishful knee scraping, toe stubbing) has succeeded in resurrecting Siddhartha, Jesus, Mohammed, and no one can tell me they havent tried or is/was not on the agenda of miracle workings. We work in soul groups, those of our family and friends that have been hanging with each other for centuries; working to undermine current paradyms to change the predicament mankind finds itself in. The ultimate teeder todder tug of war has the world sitting at one end, and just us few on the other, got to be a way to make leverage work in our favor and I have no problem CHEATING."

...'cheating'...nothing wrong with short-circuiting/short-cuts...someone's been sweeping the muck under the rug for too long - short term gain, long term loss...too many need a crash course in 'time&motion' studies, and the 'knoe when to fold 'em' strategy'...embrace your own chaos school of life, instead of holding onto the losing hand ('oh, but I love these cards')...better the devil you knoe?!...especially when it's your (thier) own...been there, doing it yesterday!...you too...that's why it looks like magic to others...unfortunately/fortunately, it ain't no parlour game, can-can entertainment taken too seriously for it's own good...lack of faith would have seen us sliming around fetid bogs...progress is slow in linear time...but we're all grown up now...aren't we?

...and the roller-coaster chinese whispers have morphed to such a degree, that, they have virtually solidified...into monstrous obsessive-compulsive fantasy worlds - with thier own special Little Golden Books and franchised disneyworlds, complete with roaming dress-up characters...the 'wicked witches' of all points, and thier gormless familiars, have always (and still are) using the machinery in newer (old dressed up) 'creative' ways...chris angel - ma'g'ician...george orwell - seer...one obfuscatory, the other revelatory...one 'the hand is faster than the eye', the other...'imagine'...

What's the expression?...'...greater than the sum of its parts'...power resides in the places where it cannot be held/owned/claimed...that is where it becomes most potent...and hologramatica being what it is...those places (leverage units) are everywhere...that's where faith, and the UN-doubt comes in...

A99



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe

Faith, as a term, is the belief in a thing without evidence for it's reality. So to say that faith is faith-based is the exact same thing. I think you just don't like acknowledging that it has no solid basis in reality. Which is a personal fault of your own (or the OPs). But you cannot escape that the things you truly have faith in, you have faith in because you do not have evidence that they are real. If you did, you wouldn't need faith, because you could point them out and say: "See, there it is. It exists. And now you can accept it too." But you can't point it out. I can't hold it in my hand. I can't speak to it, or rest my back against it. It requires faith because it does not exist in reality.


I have an example: Faith because of feelings/intuition.

example: I feel like that car coming from down the street will hit that tree, and then it happens. There was for another no real evidence of the thing to happen, but the example here knew.

You have no proof of me thinking you're an idiot of some sort, but still this can be true. Just for example. Still, you could somehow sense it. There is no scientific evidence, for it cannot be measured of this sense. Yet it exists and can be true.

Same with God. It can be you have not felt the reality of said existence of God. (for there is only one) But for someone else this can be the case. What I am trying to do is molding thoughts to spark the sensation for on to be able to believe what he feels. For one to access perception...

Although (I don't mean your an idiot Wandering Scribe), kinda lame example it could've been, but you get what I mean though, right?

Yet existence of God can be proven. I believe God is the cause of all things. (said Creator). So the earth, the solarsystem, even you is just plain evidence of this being. I don't know if you hear, but I did what I can.

Peace W.S., if that is still possible for us to experience. (This too, is an example) Peace. God, is the cause of all things. It is a very good subject to meditate on and to let the mind think of. Cause of all things. Peace is a creation of God. All emotions, all physical and material objects.. whatevers.........



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Angle
 


All the faith in the world couldn't make a single individual defy gravity for a minute, without the aid of science. And, planes go down because of human error, or because someone hijacks them, and crashes them. The science does not fail. The people do.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


It just had to be said... ha ha.

~ Scribe



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


What if a wire to the motor burns and the motor fails? What are you denying?



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Faith has no basis in non-reality


You can't just say the opposite and expect it to be correct. Faith is having belief in something without evidence that it exists, or can happen. Faith is entirely based in non-reality.


I have a problem with 'this' percieved reality first and foremost


I expect no less, you're on a conspiracy forum after all.


I dont trust it, I dont like its premise (its participants being lied to) this has been the cornerstone to human existance


Actually, the cornerstone to human existence has been survival. Our biological imperative has been to continue the species, through our particular family line. It wasn't until about 3500 BCE, when the Sumerians began farming, that we got more time and began developing religion and other institutions. With that free time, came time to think. Those thoughts lead to the "lies" which you believe have always existed. They haven't though. You think of time as only the modern era, with it's modern problems. You fail to equate for the tens of thousands of years before the modern era though.


all based in untruths or that which is hidden from the truely ignorant innocent


Hey look! A conspiracy theory! Too bad it's the same old one people have been spouting since the 1400s. Have you ever consider that maybe you can't handle the truth? That you need these distractions and "untruths" because you're so convinced there must be a TRUTH, that in not finding it, you invent an evil cabal of liars who hide it from you?

I bet it never even crossed your mind that there is no truth.


Personal faults? I have none


Arrogance.
Ignorance of history.
Occasionally spelling and grammar mistakes.
You're not an engineer, or a biologist, or an astronaut.
Oh, and ego.
You have a rabidly over-embellished ego.

You've got plenty of personal faults.


in other words I NEED NO FAITH BASED PERSEPTION of my reality


You believe in an evil conspiracy to keep the Truth hidden from unsuspecting human beings. That takes faith, because if you could prove it, you wouldn't need to believe it, or try to wake others up to it. If something is real, it does not need to be defended, only pointed to, and then it becomes clear to all who see it, just be observing.


You work out problems in your dreams. I do not stop there.


You have really vibrant dreams. So do I. That's cool. I keep an online journal of all of my really vibrant dreams. A week ago a good friend (an even more vibrant dreamer than I) sent me a message about his most recent dream. He got shot six times in it, and died. He became a ghost for part of his dream, staring down at his bleeding body. When he woke up, there was intense pain where each of the bullets had hit him during the dream. It actually took about an hour for the after effects to dissipate.

He's still alive and well though, and not a ghost.

A really detailed, vibrant, memorable dream is still just a dream. You can believe all you want that you're astrally traveling, having an out-of-body-experience, or visiting another dimension. You're just dreaming though. If, in your dreams, you're always trying to escape this world/reality, it makes sense though. Since the hub about which your belief system orbits is based on this world being false and wrong. Just as I said, you focus enough on something, and it develops an internal dream-symbol.

What with you being a Gnostic though, I assume you already knew that.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Angle
 


If a wire fails, and the motor disables, it is the fault of the engineer who put the wire in, or the maintenance man who was supposed to inspect the wire before take off. Consider it. If the science were wrong, then no plane, ever, in the history of human invention, would have ever flown. The plane flies because the science works. The plane crashes because people, human beings, are fallible, and fail to keep the plane in working order.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


I won't consider that. A perfect wire can burn.



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Angle
 


Yes, it certainly can. But you're ignoring the laws of cause-and-effect. A perfect wire, perfectly engineered, and perfectly placed into it's designated space on a plane, which is perfectly maintained, will absolutely not crash from a structural cause.

If the plane crashed because of the wire, then somewhere along the way an engineer, or processing plant, or maintenance worker failed to make sure that perfect wire was still perfectly capable of performing it's task, and perfectly placed in it's proper location.

Just because you will not consider it, doesn't mean it is not so. If your perception and reality disagree, it is your perception, and not reality, which is flawed.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Faith has no basis in non-reality


You can't just say the opposite and expect it to be correct. Faith is having belief in something without evidence that it exists, or can happen. Faith is entirely based in non-reality.


I have a problem with 'this' percieved reality first and foremost


I expect no less, you're on a conspiracy forum after all.


I dont trust it, I dont like its premise (its participants being lied to) this has been the cornerstone to human existance


Actually, the cornerstone to human existence has been survival. Our biological imperative has been to continue the species, through our particular family line. It wasn't until about 3500 BCE, when the Sumerians began farming, that we got more time and began developing religion and other institutions. With that free time, came time to think. Those thoughts lead to the "lies" which you believe have always existed. They haven't though. You think of time as only the modern era, with it's modern problems. You fail to equate for the tens of thousands of years before the modern era though.


all based in untruths or that which is hidden from the truely ignorant innocent


Hey look! A conspiracy theory! Too bad it's the same old one people have been spouting since the 1400s. Have you ever consider that maybe you can't handle the truth? That you need these distractions and "untruths" because you're so convinced there must be a TRUTH, that in not finding it, you invent an evil cabal of liars who hide it from you?

I bet it never even crossed your mind that there is no truth.


Personal faults? I have none


Arrogance.
Ignorance of history.
Occasionally spelling and grammar mistakes.
You're not an engineer, or a biologist, or an astronaut.
Oh, and ego.
You have a rabidly over-embellished ego.

You've got plenty of personal faults.


in other words I NEED NO FAITH BASED PERSEPTION of my reality


You believe in an evil conspiracy to keep the Truth hidden from unsuspecting human beings. That takes faith, because if you could prove it, you wouldn't need to believe it, or try to wake others up to it. If something is real, it does not need to be defended, only pointed to, and then it becomes clear to all who see it, just be observing.

What with you being a Gnostic though, I assume you already knew that.

~ Wandering Scribe


How in the WORLD did my GOD fearing Jesus lover Babtist neighbors find me; I knew they hated me, but this is over the top, required some kind of detective work; God suspects them of trying to undermine IT.
No, I am on an 'off topic' page behind THE Real conspiracy forum; so are you (still trying to figure out the off topic biz conom.)
This time thingy, I can go back as far as 400,000yrs 'bce' and the shennanigans happening then; extreme modern thought of course, 3500 'bce' is positively FUTERISTIC comparatively.
Evil conspiracies dont require a faith of believing. They are simply there, some percieve them some dont, like Cyclops had one eye, then blinded and still couldnt 'see' the sheep from Ulysees wool smell. Senses had no time to develop I guess.
Truth exists as a REAL word DEFINITION in Websters, and The New World Dictionary so what to do now? Book burning party!! I am bringing the beer.
Gnosis, a state of being so you are correct; or at least the last time I conferenced with the dog and horse pets.
I am not an engineer, not a biologist, not an astronaut that is an absolute certainty; as to Egocentric, YES in trying to expose the TOOTH or TEETH or is it TRUTH, spelling gets away from me someterms.
edit on 12-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 10:51 PM
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akushla99
...'cheating'...nothing wrong with short-circuiting/short-cuts...someone's been sweeping the muck under the rug for too long - short term gain, long term loss...too many need a crash course in 'time&motion' studies, and the 'know when to fold 'em' strategy'...embrace your own chaos school of life, instead of holding onto the losing hand ('oh, but I love these cards')...better the devil you know?!...especially when it's your (their) own...been there, doing it yesterday!...you too...that's why it looks like magic to others...unfortunately/fortunately, it ain't no parlour game, can-can entertainment taken too seriously for it's own good...lack of faith would have seen us slumming around fetid bogs...progress is slow in linear time...but we're all grown up now...aren't we?


Love the short cuts especially when totally unanticipated by the one I am short circuiting. I embace the crash course (not many can think on their feet or tenticals) chaos school. I love the game, there is no thing more challenging than the slip and slide time/motion where are my feet reality. It does look like magick and I cannot get a simple answer as to why in a mirror everything reflected back is 2 dimensional. This is no parlour game it is a deadly outsmarting of a thoughtform system gone well beyond its usefulness.


akushla99
...and the roller-coaster chinese whispers have morphed to such a degree, that, they have virtually solidified...into monstrous obsessive-compulsive fantasy worlds - with thier own special Little Golden Books and franchised disneyworlds, complete with roaming dress-up characters...the 'wicked witches' of all points, and their formless familiars, have always (and still are) using the machinery in newer (old dressed up) 'creative' ways...chris angel - ma'g'ician...george orwell - seer...one obfuscatory, the other revelatory...one 'the hand is faster than the eye', the other...'imagine'...

What's the expression?...'...greater than the sum of its parts'...power resides in the places where it cannot be held/owned/claimed...that is where it becomes most potent...and hologramatica being what it is...those places (leverage units) are everywhere...that's where faith, and the UN-doubt comes in...


People pay good money for the opportunity to witness 'slight of hand'. They do it everyday watching themselves act out being human on DVDs and reminiscing fondly "Im not sure I get this whole being a human thing, what are the filmmakers trying to describe, US?'" Got to love Walt. He was a genious in setting up the machine for profit motive and at the same time winking, "dont you get it humans". If not a louder voice could be heard screaming from the sidelines it would be him. Pixar, DreamWorks and the others are the 'died in the wool 'advantage goes to us we win characters', if I could only peek under their cloaks. Shakespeare, Orwell, Wells, Verne; within these Faith and undoubt abound and is set FREE--YES. Yes I will it.
edit on 12-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Angle
 


Yes, it certainly can. But you're ignoring the laws of cause-and-effect. A perfect wire, perfectly engineered, and perfectly placed into it's designated space on a plane, which is perfectly maintained, will absolutely not crash from a structural cause.

If the plane crashed because of the wire, then somewhere along the way an engineer, or processing plant, or maintenance worker failed to make sure that perfect wire was still perfectly capable of performing it's task, and perfectly placed in it's proper location.

Just because you will not consider it, doesn't mean it is not so. If your perception and reality disagree, it is your perception, and not reality, which is flawed.

~ Wandering Scribe


Nothing to do with a wire unless communication light housing is optical; its in the electrical force powered over heated 'LITHIUM BATTERIES' banana peel slip and slide "whammo"-up, a burn; a tear, break in the breach wall. Airoplane and all passengers on their way to meet Nirvana (Kute Kurt) and wind up going ZIP di-de-doo-yah, did I pack enough shampoo to last an eternity?
edit on 12-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by mrperplexed

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


Now that's not really true wandering scribe. Faith is or believing because of having experienced what can be or believing it without having seen it. Believing it without having seen it is a simple thing. It's also the most profound of faith.


Its also close to the definition of delusion. A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.


One must have to be very couragious to hold such a conviction; defend it and not have to die for it.



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Your replies aren't making sense. I'll ignore them for the time being, because you're not worth the time it takes to type a coherent response to your gibberish.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



One must have to be very couragious to hold such a conviction; defend it and not have to die for it.


Actually, those people are called cowards. If you have enough faith in your belief to ridicule another, but not enough to put your own on display, then that is cowardice, not courage. Reality is not afraid of being looked at. Truth is not afraid to hold it's head high. Only delusions and liars do what you're suggesting.

Also, star for you, for having a coherent post so soon after your head-space ramble-of-a-reply to me.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Mar, 14 2013 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



One must have to be very couragious to hold such a conviction; defend it and not have to die for it.


Actually, those people are called cowards. If you have enough faith in your belief to ridicule another, but not enough to put your own on display, then that is cowardice, not courage. Reality is not afraid of being looked at. Truth is not afraid to hold it's head high. Only delusions and liars do what you're suggesting.

Also, star for you, for having a coherent post so soon after your head-space ramble-of-a-reply to me.

~ Wandering Scribe


So it is the ones who couragiously DIE for such convicitions are the heros; not the ones who defend and not have to die; I can think of millions and millions of Christians that did just that, 'cowards' all of them; you maybe are one of them? People of faith do not ridicule, they have enough problems defending it. How does reality work its way in here, belief systems are based in the intangible, that being truths held by the individual ownership of. Why can you not be delusional and a truth sayer at the same time? Why can one not be firmly rooted in reality and spouting lies; great platform there unless high up and a microburst hits it.
edit on 14-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2013 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by Angle
 


I disagree.

What exactly on this planet is there that we should have faith in?
Mankind? Ha
Some invisible man in the sky?
Aliens to come save us from our self created absurdity?

Faith is a crutch, a coping mechanism. It will fail you when you need it most.

If anything have faith in yourself, just be sure not to let yourself down.


Wwhen you have faith the size of a musterdseed, you can obey (a tree) to become uprooted and planted in the see

Faith comes in sizes according to this excerpt out of the bible. You don't have faith IN something. One just retrieved faith and faith can be used for many purposes so it seems, the more miraculous the better. Like obeying a tree to become uprooted and become planted in the see. One could probably heal with faith. That would be nice isn't it. Noone probably knows how to have faith. Faith is a lost.. a lost.. a lost cause.

We've discussed what our modern mind is thought about something silly. But Faith is the ultimate thing for a person to have. Jesus was dissapointed, probably angry too somewhere in one of the gospels because of his students not having retrieved Faith yet.

Faith, a word common misused and whereof the meaning is unknown in todays society.
edit on 15-3-2013 by Angle because: (no reason given)






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