ACLU preparing to challenge the militarization of police forces in the US

"ACLU preparing to challenge the militarization of police forces in the US"

Talk about a dog and pony show.

They will push this until Obama tells them to stop and then they will say "we didnt find any evidence supporting that the police are being militarized."

Move along folks, everything is just fine in the good ol' US of A.

There's something about a group of cops getting together which results in some horrific behavior.

If you read about the Stanford prison experiment, there's a psychological process that happens when a group of men get together.

I would like to see a regulation which required the entire police action be filmed and recorded.

reply to post by FortAnthem


wow, I think that picture sums it up quite well. we have cowards like this running around armed to the teeth. if it makes them feel any better, I am afraid of pussy too, but I try not to run around pointing my gun at it.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

Rarely Truthful (RT) is not the best source to use.. They have a tendencey to over exaggerate while ignoring evidence that doesnt support their agenda.

Yes, indeed. How about the fact that this is a true story?

Confused after throwing a deafening and blinding “flashbang” into a home, police mistakenly shot and killed a sleeping nine-year-old.
Read more »


Police in North Dakota borrowed a $154 million Predator drone from Homeland Security to arrest a family who refused to return six cows that wandered onto their farm.
Read more »



A county sheriff’s department in South Carolina has an armored personnel carrier dubbed "The Peacemaker," which can shoot weapons that the U.S. military specifically refrains from using on people.
Read more »


Police in Arkansas announced plans to patrol streets wearing full SWAT gear and carrying AR-15 assault rifles.
Read more »



New Hampshire police received federal funds for a counter-attack vehicle, asking “what red-blooded American cop isn’t going to be excited about getting a toy like this?”
Read more »


Drone manufacturers may offer police remote controlled drones with weapons like rubber bullets, Tasers, and tear gas.
Read more »



Two SWAT Teams shut down a neighborhood in Colorado for four hours to search for a man suspected of stealing a bicycle and merchandise from Wal-Mart.
Read more »


An Arizona SWAT team defended shooting an Iraq War veteran 60 times during a drug raid, but had to retract its claim that the veteran shot first.
Read more »



A company in Arizona submitted a patent for shock cuffs, which can be used by cops to remotely administer a Taser-like shock to detainees.
Read more »


The New York City Police Department disclosed that it deployed “counter-terror” measures against Occupy Movement protesters.
Read more »


ACLU

CJ

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Unbeknownst to most folks, a large percentage of police officers tried to join the military, they were either not smart enough, not physically fit enough or couldnt pass the psych evals necessay to join.

Probably becuase it isn't true - where do you get this stuff - sources please.

So they become police, so they can "play soldier" instead of being one.

Imho, if they arent good enough to be soldiers they shouldnt be good enough to be cops either, I mean what does this say about the standard of our police officers anyways?

Just plain nonsense - Police have to meet a whole lot more entrance requirements then military recruits.

In fact former military account for a good percentage of our police force and could be contributing to the militarization of the police.

See: www.policeone.com...

and the like

Texas considers bill to fast-track police jobs for former military
The 'Chris Kyle Bill' would allow military veterans who prove their skills to skip out on certain parts of the police academy

Originally posted by Daughter2
There's something about a group of cops getting together which results in some horrific behavior.

If you read about the Stanford prison experiment, there's a psychological process that happens when a group of men get together.

I would like to see a regulation which required the entire police action be filmed and recorded.

Now that is the best idea I've heard in a long time. Required video/audio recording of all police activity to ensure ethical behavior. We the People are being monitored in every area of our lives to ensure compliance and so should government in all it's forms. It ain't transparency unless it goes both ways....

Brava

reply to post by Xcathdra


Don't know about 'Rarely Truthful' but here it is from the ACLU itself:

Militarization of Police
American neighborhoods are increasingly being policed by cops armed with the weapons and tactics of war.
Click here more information about the ACLU’s project on the Militarization of Policing in America.

www.aclu.org...

I am a past member and hope to be able to afford membership again in the near future (my life's picking up a bit) and upon first glance often don't like the cases they take on. However, after I look into the subject, I do understand the PRINCIPLE of the case and the importance to us of upholding that PRINCIPLE.

I truly wish more organizations could be as principled.

Thanks for the post.

reply to post by Daughter2


Yes, you refer to the Lucifer Effect, as described by Philip Zimbardo who conducted the Stanford Prison Experiment. Human behavior certainly has its darker sides.

I'm glad the ACLU is bringing suit. Makes me feel good about the donations I have given them over the years.

How come all the guys in high school who were "outsiders/weird" wound up being police? It seems to never fail the most unbalanced guys became cops. Give one a badge and a gun and they think they are God and can now get even. I think the whole thing is out of wack and now we have a police state where the police are more like solders and not cops that are supposed to "serve and protect". If you notice they took that saying off their cars years ago.... Just look at Youtube and see all the things cops are doing to us and getting away with it. It's about time someone did something. I'm starting to believe between Rand Paul and others we may survive this takeover...

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Your point?

All incidents from different police departments all in differ3ent states, which have their own laws concerning what law enforcement can and cannot use.

Feel free to follow up on your articles to see what happened to the officers / departments involved. While your at it feel free to check up on the various state laws involved and understand those laws differ from state to state, depending on not only laws, but state court rulings.

The actions of 1 department, or 100, do NOT represent the entire law enforcement community. Just as you do not represent the total community on why people have issues with the police.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Contrary to popular belief the ACLU has an agenda, and its not to protect rights at all.

I can take traffic accident stats from my city and pull only thoe accidents where the cause was DWI. I can then take that stat and spin it to turn it into something its not, just as the ACLU does.

Lets take racial profiling for my state and how the statistics are put together.

I stop 10 cars where the drivers are all white and write 9 tickets and give 1 warning.
I stop 1 cars where the driver is black and write a citation.

When those stats are turned in and processed, its not viewed in the manner of occurence.

In the stats above it will show that my agency wrote white people tickets 90 percent of the time. It would then show my agency writes tickets to black people 100 percent of the time.

It does not give any further breakdown and does not account for ethnic makeup, whether or not the person even lives in the area / region etc etc etc..


The ACLU likes to use those statistics in a manner that is not consistent with whats actually occuring... Just as RT does and just as local media does.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Your point?

All incidents from different police departments all in differ3ent states, which have their own laws concerning what law enforcement can and cannot use.

Feel free to follow up on your articles to see what happened to the officers / departments involved. While your at it feel free to check up on the various state laws involved and understand those laws differ from state to state, depending on not only laws, but state court rulings.

The actions of 1 department, or 100, do NOT represent the entire law enforcement community. Just as you do not represent the total community on why people have issues with the police.

edit on 10-3-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Ah, my point is you attacked the source when there are dozen out there reporting the same thing. How can you argue an investigation of the militarization of the US police forces when it is fact that they are indeed investigating it?

As to what happened to the officers in each case, you of all people should know officers are held to a much different standard than us regulars. Fact of the matter is police break the law every day and get away with it - if you disagree you are being disingenuous.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Because its not the militarization of the US Police force and regardless of how many times the ACLU or otther groups running an agenda repeat it doesnt make it so.

Secondly, you ignored my comment about the outcome of the articles. The standard officers are held to are actually a lot higher than that of civilians because of training. The issue you and others seem to have is not with law enforcement, but with the judicial system itself, which law enforcement is NOT part of.

Police break the law every day just as citizens break the law everyday. Trying to create an image where law enforcement is perfect only sets you and others up for failure when its realized its just not true.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Well, first you attacked the source, which indeed was correct. They are "investigating" militarization of US police. You say that can't be because the police are not being militarized. I guess the semantics of "militarization" is what you disagree with. Do armored personell carriers count?

Regarding the incidents I listed, yes indeed police do break the law every day. Do they hold themselves to a higher standard? Obviously not. Is the system broken when it comes to holding the police accountable? Yes, obviously so.

CJ

reply to post by Xcathdra


So then, are you claiming that police forces HAVE NOT been militarized?

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Again, go back and read up on the incidents you used as an example and see how they turned out.

Secondly, read up on the laws that govern each of those agencies, as they vary from state to state.

The source can be called into question since they pick and choose the information they want that supports the agenda they are pushing. They have done this in the past, and its no different than MSNBC editing things to turn a situation into something more than it really is, just like RT is doing here.

Originally posted by Salander
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

So then, are you claiming that police forces HAVE NOT been militarized?

To the extent its being discribed as absolutely not.

There are public schools that are requiring students to wear uniforms - are they being militarized?

We take the experience the military gains and apply some of it to our job here at home. To use the term militarize in the context rarely truthful, along with others in this thread, are using it in is irresponsible, to say the least.

the way the article is written, and the mentality of some in this thread, is along the lines of me saying because I stopped a drunk driver last night, ALL drivers must be drunk 24/7.

Just because an agency goes stupid and its officers do something stupid does not mean all agencies act in a similar manner. There are a lot of departments who have military vehicles adapted for civilian use. Just because one agency (like the ATF in WACO) uses a military origonated item in a manner that runs contrary to common sense does not mean all agencies who have them act in the same manner.

One of the biggest issues we have in law enforcement is the constant us vs them mentality between the people we serve and the police department itself. There are people so distrustful of the government that they automatically assume all governments are the same. they dont understand the difference betwen federal state and local... they dont understand the difference between military and law enforcement.

If we are going to use the one sided argument people are presenting in this thread then one can say the American people are being militarized being they have the same access law enforcement does to these weapons.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Again, go back and read up on the incidents you used as an example and see how they turned out.

Secondly, read up on the laws that govern each of those agencies, as they vary from state to state.

The source can be called into question since they pick and choose the information they want that supports the agenda they are pushing. They have done this in the past, and its no different than MSNBC editing things to turn a situation into something more than it really is, just like RT is doing here.

I agree the source can be sketchy but in this instance they are reporting what is fact. Regarding the incidents, you keep going to what the outcome was, not the actions. You really think we need armored personell carriers for local police? Swat forces for podunk towns? Helicopters to stop and land and ask what innocent people are doing walking around?

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
I agree the source can be sketchy but in this instance they are reporting what is fact...

Hypothetical -
A Police Officer shoots and kills an unarmed attacker. The fact is an officer shot and killed a person. What other facts go along with that encounter? Why did the officer have contact in the first place? What was the unarmed person doing when he was shot and killed?

RT like's to use "facts" without bothering to place then into context. Broad generalities cause problems, especially in this area. Each incident with law enforcement is looked at as a single incident, from start to finish. Something RT is leaving out.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Regarding the incidents, you keep going to what the outcome was, not the actions.

Because in the US an officers actions are not based on 20/20 hindsight, but totality of circumstances coupled with what the officer perceived as a threat the moment force was used.

While I understand your position on the actions, in this area, law enforcement, its the outcome that is critical. It is like this specifically because of how the Supreme Court has ruled on use of force (hindsight / totality comment above). The end result is where we get criminal prosecution / civil law suits / 42 USC violations / etc etc etc.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
You really think we need armored personell carriers for local police? Swat forces for podunk towns?

Yes -

Geneva County Alabama Stats
Population of the county - 27k
Number of deputies - 12
Number of local agencies who sent officers numbered at 10.


Ala. sheriff says he asked Rucker MPs for help

Ten people were killed in the March 10 rampage in southeastern Alabama by a man police identified as Michael McClendon, 28, of Kinston, Ala., where the first killing took place around 3:30 p.m. The shooter took his own life after an exchange of gunfire with police.

.......

With seven separate crime scenes spanning a 20-mile area, Ward’s force of 12 deputies and about 10 more police from neighboring towns, were becoming overwhelmed, he said.

Also - This is part 4 of 4 of the North Hollywood shootout. Not only would a rifle / automatic weapon been useful in this case, so would armored vehicles. As you can see they had to use an armored car from a bank delivery.

North Hollywood Shootout stats

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Helicopters to stop and land and ask what innocent people are doing walking around?

CJ

As for the last part, that is what im referring to. I am familiar with the incident where the helicopter landed and harassed people for an idiotic reason. However that incident is not indicative of how all agencies with helicopters operate.

Helicopter's have taken a key role in high speed vehicle pursuits. It allows the person to be tracked by air in an effort to reduce risk to the public as a whole.

Yes - there are legitimate issues with law enforcement. However RT is not bringing all the facts to the table. It is picking and choosing which facts best serve their agenda. I make this accusation based on the manner they presented their info. Hence the reason we need to look at the conclusion.

Finally, and I mean this with all due respect.

Your comment about Podunk towns and their needs is alarming. The mentality that it "can never happen here" is dangerous. Killing sprees / serial killers / gang fights / etc etc etc... They are not just restricted to large cities.

As a side note thank you for engaging in this debate with civility and logic. I learned a few things today.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Wearing uniforms is not what makes police departments 'militarized'. They've been wearing uniforms for a long time.

Special Weapons And Tactics, SWAT, makes them militarized, with the emphasis on tactics.

In the old days police officers were frequently called Peace Officers. That is no longer the case. Armored Personnel Carriers make them militarized. Even my small town authorities have one of them. Yes, they have used one to enter a home for some drug charade.

It's the tactics and mentality engendered that constitutes the militarization.