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Vatican silences US cardinals, could cause boomerang effect with next pope American

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posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:19 AM
Curia silences U.S. cardinals: “You talk too much”

The Vatican is still annoyed at the leaks of confidential proceedings to the media by U.S. cardinals. All cardinal electors are now in Rome: the Conclave nears

There is still no decision on the date but the Curia has imposed a media blackout so cardinals are not allowed to give information tot he press. Tensions have been rising in the past few days, leading to yesterday morning's clash between “Romans” and “foreigners”.

The Dean of the College of Cardinals, Angelo Sodano and the Camerlengo, Bertone (who have formed an alliance against cardinals outside the Curia after eight years of mutual hostility) did everything in their power to contain the solid group of U.S. cardinals. In the name of transparency, U.S. cardinals had held a series of parallel news briefings with the press on the issues relating to the Conclave. The briefings were held at the Pontifical North American College where the cardinals are currently staying. For this reason on Monday Rigali, the U.S. cardinal who is closest to the Curia, was given the task, through Re, of letting his group know that these news briefings were inappropriate. On Tuesday, Sodano supporter Cardinal Giovanni Lajolo also had a go at urging them to stop: “Americans talk tot he press more because it's their style, they are expansive.” A glasnost which violates a century-old tradition of discretion and stealthy caution. The American cardinals finally gave in to growing pressure from the Vatican, cancelling their umpteenth press briefing. The Vatican's irritation came like a slap in the face in the midst of the Synod Hall. "Concern was expressed in the general congregation about leaks of confidential proceedings,” the U.S. cardinals' spokesman Mary Ann Walsh later explained. Dolan's 14:30 press conference was cancelled an hour before it was due to start.

The press embargo which the “Roman faction” has imposed on the Americans could cause a dramatic boomerang effect. A starts and stripes pope is considered a plausible possibility even by Ruini supporter Dino Boffo. “ “I would not be surprised if a candidate from the New World was chosen.” The director of the bishops' TV pointed to the model that helped the Church in the fight against the sex abuse scandal: “Just look at the Boston diocese which was among the worst hit; now the Seminary is full and faithful have started making offerings again.”

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:49 AM

Originally posted by 2012newstart
The press embargo which the “Roman faction” has imposed on the Americans could cause a dramatic boomerang effect. A starts and stripes pope is considered a plausible possibility

While it is entirely possible that the next Pope might come from Canada or Latin/South America, there is pretty much a zero percent chance of an American being chosen. The United States is too powerful and polarizing to allow for a non-polarizing Pope, and the church has no interest in that.

That said, the smart money is still likely on a European Pope -- half of the voting Cardinals are from there, it's been a long time since there was a non-European, and there's no real compelling reason to sway from it.

Imposing a press embargo is the only effective means that the church has to cut down on the politicking and grandstanding, so one can hardly fault them for it.

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:55 AM
perhaps most people don't know that almost everything important in the catholic church is leaded by the Curia or the Vatican government. While the top members are changed/should be changed with every new pontiff elected, the lower hierarchy is much more difficult to change. The apparatus that makes career with the years, the pyramidal structure. May be you don't know how much depends on those people whom no one sees on the TV screen. For example, they select who will be your next bishop. The real power in the catholic church is not in the local bishop - it is in the Curia. Of course leaded by the pope himself. But the pope cannot do alone all those tasks. We saw how that works in practice in the last years of John Paul II, blessed indeed but incapable of controlling anything. The sex scandals surfaced around that time.

Now we see leading cardinals in US and also Germany (cardinal Kasper), want more transparency how the catholic church is managed by the Curia. What exactly happens behind the walls of the Vatican. Because that concerns not only the members of the Vatican whose names are rarely mentioned. it concerns all bishops, all faithful 1 billion. Is there any right for the members of the Catholic church except to obey orders from above in matters that are neither dogmatic nor canonical, nor found in the scripture? How about the married priests that are allowed in the Eastern churches united to the pope, as well as to the Anglican priests who choose to join the Catholic church? Why not then Catholic married priests? We remember how fast cardinal O'Brien was exposed with quite an old sex scandal the moment he opened his mouth about the married priests. What a shame! Instead the cardinals to talk openly of that possibility, that to be one of the main tasks for the new pope, to eliminate the CAUSE of the sex offenses - the celibate priesthood that is mandatory in the Roman rite.

That move to transparency makes the US cardinals standing on the opposite side of the Curia cardinals who would naturally want to keep their power. To that added the recent consistory of Benedict 16 that elevated to cardinals a dozen or more Curia members. Now they total 38.

I cannot help but think that John Paul II,cardinal Karol Wojtyla was elected in a situation when the Vatican was marred in another type of crisis, connected to secret societies and ecclesiastical masonry, the revelations of the secret Italian masonic lodge P2, and the catholic Banco Ambrosiano scandals. He was elected from Socialist-then Poland, to change both the Catholic church and Europe.

Today there are new challenges added to the old problems. Today there isn't Socialist block to be destroyed. Will the US cardinals be that new force, to unite the rest for the election of a non-Curia member pope, not one appointed by the Curia? I don't know. I hope the papacy of Petrus Romanus (under any chosen name) will be quite different from the papacy of Benedict 16.

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:05 AM
One direct question that goes to the pope and his aides, surpassingthe authority of the local bishops:
why that opposition to gays in the society (even before the gay marriages), if now is evident the gays are quite many within the ranks of the catholic church itself? How could a priest or bishop who have secret gay partner be allowed to consecrate the Holy Host, while gay partners in society are denied communion?

Another questioN: why the opposition to the condoms, if the condoms do not lead to abortion of any kind? Why not to allow what is possibe to be allowed, and what is not forbidden in the Bible? "unnatural". And what is natural, to die from hunger and AIDS in Africa, partially as a result of overpopulation, or not to have sex offered as a remedy? Pardon me? Again the boomerang goes to those who forbid it - some of them have quite a lot of sex, much more shocking than the use of condoms by couples.

I am just shocked that in 21st century those questions are still on the table that would be more appropriate for the Victorian era.

What to say about the divorce that Jesus himself gives the exception when the divorce is allowed "for fornication" and that is brutally changed in the modern catholic translations into "except for unlawful marriage". Shame!

Only the pope can change things, say many, including bishops and cardinals. Then choose the pope that will change things according to the common sense and do not contradict the Bible in anyway! And not to offer One world authority = NWO!
edit on 7-3-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:28 AM
reply to post by 2012newstart
I don't even want to think and reason here what new moral problems will cause any NEW DOCUMENT OF THE GOSPEL that will show new side of the life of early Christian communities or Jesus himself.

Will that be decided by the old men with old minds, or by someone new in the position of the new pope? It is terrible to think what hurt to worldwide Christianity an outdated pope will bring if elected. Not only to the Catholic church, because more or less the Catholic church is still leading to some degree.

Are there hidden tablets or manuscripts in the secret Vatican archives that show quite different Gospel picture? Why not a commission to examine that, a commission not secret as the one of the sex scandals, but public? What are the real words of Jesus, and why should they be changed in the "new translations"?

I would not comment what kind of issues may arise of such new discovery of old gospel tablets. May be it is not here the place to do so. But it is the same big question: who wil lead the biggest church in the 3rd millennium and how? It concerns me and everyone.

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:00 AM
Instead of silencing US cardinals, there should be more talks of the real problems, and also a move towards Vatican - 3!
It should be done with the successors of the Apostles - the Eastern and Orthodox patriarchs!
Vatican-2 failed in many things. New council is needed immediately! The bishops must be heard loudly! The cardinalate does not date back to the Apostles. The descendants of the Apostles are all apostolic churches' heads - the patriarchs and others, mostly in the East! That should be made crystal clear. The cardinalate is available for lay people as well. And there were lay people cardinals in history. The papacy is available to all male catholics, not only to the cardinals. Why no one talks of that in 21st century? Why the next arranged scene to be played out before the entire world, and not enough that but in secrecy? Do those people believe they will be believed for anything after that kind of conclave?

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:07 AM
Only the bishops gathered together have the fullness and the infallibility, teach the old rules of the one holy undivided church before 1054. The bishops are those appointed in the Apostles' times. The bishops have to take responsibility for the big issues mentioned above, as well as others.
I am tired to continue writing in that style. I already said the things. It was a natural outburst from what we see happening in Rome. Cardinals silenced by cardinals, in the absence of a pope who resigned not to take part in that! What we observe is a theater, and done behind scene!

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:26 AM
Because I took too much space here, I will end my posts with this one, leaving the thread to those who want to comment the news.

The Eastern and Orthodox churches accept only the First seven Ecumenical Councils and some of them only the first 4. In anyway, a new united council will be named according to them as 8th ecumenical council. (or universal - of all the universe). From their point of view, no later decisions made on councils of the Roman church have any validity, neither the new dogmas. While the question with the dogmas is pretty much resolved, with the exception of the papal infallibility. In conclusion, the worldwide Christianity needs a new universal council. Perhaps the protestants and their descendants will find their place too, although they are not considered to have apostolic succession, as the Orthodox churches do. Anything short of a new 8th universal council will leave the big questions of our time unanswered, or answered separately. We will see new schisms as we see they happen occasionally. Some will quickly say the 8th universal council will promote the antichrist. And they will be totally wrong. The 7 councils didn't promote any antichrist but made the dogmas the foundation of our faith.
The new 8th council could accept as canonical newy discovered texts of the Gospel, such as the still unpublished Dead Sea scrolls. It could accept new dogmas. To be valid for all Christians they have to be accepted by all Christians. Not by one man alone. I can list a dozen of big questions that should be resolved, of moral and other character. Why not to define what is an angel and the many occasions of physical presence of angels in the Bible - isn't it exactly what today is called extraterrestrial. Why not to define whether the extraterrestrials need baptism, and whether the church on earth (all of them) will need to become missionary to other planets. That all exists, and is before your eyes online! I believe before the eyes and minds of bishops from all churches.
The world is too small to support anything short of it. If the Roman cardinals cannot agree between themselves, how they want to agree and then follow one man elected by them in secret? Something is very wrong. Let they be the first ones to open up for the idea of Vatican-3 or the 8th universal/ecumenica/catholic council! (the words are equivalent). Let they elect the pope with the clear mandate to start that council! Otherwise, if they fail in their discussins now and start leaving the conclave, it is yet another big schism inside the Western church, the biggest since the Reformation. the choice is theirs of those 115 wise men. Let pray for them
edit on 7-3-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:51 AM
I don't think that the Cardinals will elect an American pope. I really don't.
The non-American Cardinals telling the American ones to be quiet ...
well ... I think it's a 'nothing' .... really ....

posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:50 PM
reply to post by 2012newstart

Any kind of barrier or act that prevents the sperm from reaching the egg is prohibited. The only method that the church allowed was the rhythm method where you counted the days of the womans cycle to determine when she would ovulate and then dont have sex on that day. More a form of abstinence than birth control. The God of Abraham was really big on babies.

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