Does ATS need a fallout shelter? IP after DNS.

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posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 02:45 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 



The question is “Does that work outweigh any foreseeable benefits?”


Well, I can't answer that question for ATS, but, I suspect it would be a "no"

There haven't been any significant site updates since 2010. Not a criticism on the site... I love it.. just an answer to your questions.




posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by nothingwrong
 


A good portion of web hosting has moved to shared servers running multiple sites from one IP. There are servers out there that are serving over a hundred websites from one IP. You have 100 root directories, one for each site. When a request comes in, the server software looks at the host header. It will bind that request to any one of those directories depending on the hostname lookup rules.

If it doesn’t fall in any one of the predefined directories, then it will bind it to a default directory.

The default directory is usually the default splash page that was created when the server software was installed. Or the admin log in page.

That is why if you do an IP address lookup, and enter the raw IP address into the browser, you will sometimes get the default apache splash page, or admin login page. And there will be no way you can get from that default page to the page you want that is hosted on that server.

It will not serve you the desired page unless the host header on your browser’s request matches the desired page. That will only happen if you have a functioning DNS, or lookup list.

There is a lot of times you will run into a security hole that way because the server admin did not take down the default splash page and it will give you the necessary information to gain entry into that server.

Go ahead and try it. It’s funny what you will find sometimes.
edit on 7-3-2013 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 



A good portion of web hosting has moved to shared servers running multiple sites from one IP


I think you're talking about load balancers. That won't help at all with your OP idea.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:03 AM
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Not talking about load balancers.
That is the exact oposit.
When you have mutiple computers, and IPs serving the same page.

Quick example.

Lets bother the Chinese for a bit.
Plastictoy.cn
www.plastictoy.cn...
Hosted on one server along with 22 other domains.

fengfa.com
jbstoys.com
jiayangtoy.com
jundihuatoys.com
kingyear.com
ltpromotoys.com
mingjuncrafts.com
nh35.com
sdtoys.net
www.abintoy.com
www.bestresourcestoys.com
www.fuyitoys.com
www.infiniti-toys.com
www.jiayangtoys.com
www.jinyuandatoys.com
www.mttoys.com
www.plastictoy.cn
www.quite9s.com
www.rolanatoy.com
www.shengdongtoys.com
www.shunfa.cn
www.stmeiyue.com
www.toys888.com


All on one IP. That being this one.
58.64.155.77...

Click on the plastictoy link, then the IP link.
They are coming off the same server.
In the Ip link, you get the admin log in page becase it’s the default page you are sent to if your requested host name does not match any on this list.
edit on 7-3-2013 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Ahh, gotchya.

Still, if the actual ATS servers were down, it's all moot and a DNS failure/attack would be a more wide spread situation that just ATS.

In the event that there was a DNS outage globally then the ability to resolve the IP to a name for any server would be more of an issue as you wouldn't be able to access any server that relied on DNS.

And most people would be lost without google as soon as they load their browser.

They could implement an IP to dedicated 'fallout shelter' server, but not many people would be aware to try the IP address to access it, should some global event occur taking down every DNS server at once.

Hmm, that makes the idea of a hosts file fairly useless in this sort of event, for servers that enforce named resolution.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Ah, yes, that rings a bell.

I tried it on a friends site. Got a "Default web site page"

Odd though, when I tried to do a reverse nslookup it only returned the one site I started with.

Thanks for the reminder. I do vaguely remember something about this now, but I was never that heavily involved with it - as IT manager I had people to do the nitty gritty techie bits for me. I left that job 4 years ago. It is amazing how quickly you forget stuff when you stop using it.

So what you are saying is that the Default page I landed on could be used to host a stripped down forum if/when internet wide DNS fails. Got ya.

Thanks



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


I'm sorry, you lost me with a server hosting multiple domains.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:14 AM
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No offence, but after a global meltdown that leaves communication channels and the world wide web disrupted you will have more important tasks to attend to than setting up your own DNS root servers. Trust me.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


I'm sorry, you lost me with a server hosting multiple domains.


Google shared servers. 1 server can host many web sites, all of which have different names.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by nothingwrong
 



Google shared servers. 1 server can host many web sites, all of which have different names.


Not what I'm talking about



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Tranny

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Mr Tranny
But the ATS website seems ill prepared for a DNS shutdown/attack.

We did very well.

How many other sites can stay up during sustained inbound requests over 700 megabits per second?

That's a traffic level more than 100 times our typical. And we had less than 20 minutes of total inaccessibility while the mitigation solution identified the source and blocked it.


We are not talking about the same thing. This was a denial of service attack. I am talking about the Domain name server system being corrupted, or taken down. Apples to oranges here.

AKA the government hits the DNS kill switch.

Your site may be able to take 1TB per second of DDOS attacks, but if the DNS does not point to the server IP, then NO one can get anything.

Someone types in the IP, and your server will will direct them to the corrupt or missing DNS.
edit on 7-3-2013 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)


To be fair, the OP came across a little ambiguous, in that it appeared you meant either a DDOS attack on the servers or a DNS failure.

Having tested the failure of connecting to ATS without DNS via IP, I see what you're saying now!



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by nothingwrong
So what you are saying is that the Default page I landed on could be used to host a stripped down forum if/when internet wide DNS fails. Got ya.


Yes, you can rip out the default splash page and put in a striped down forum. If you type in the IP, you will get the striped down forum. If you type in the normal hostname, you will get the normal page. It would be a good idea to have a link to the normal page hosted on that server located prominently in the striped down forum for people that want to go to the normal page.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:30 AM
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OK I "kind of" see what you are going after here. But, I think that the odds of a sustained attack are minimal and there is really no need to prep for such an occasion... If there is, we have more dire needs than accessing ATS.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:58 AM
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reply to post by Zarniwoop
 


In the battlefield, lines of communication are worth their weight in gold, no mater how thin and fragile they are.
Situational awareness is paramount.
Access to information is always top priority, any way you can find it.

Without it, a solder or civilian is def, dumb, and blind.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


All them China domains are basically parked on one IP. Imagine all those sub domains actually getting lots of traffic. If the server couldn't handle it and the bandwidth wasn't there your website is toast. Running a real box at home or VPS in the cloud they all have their advantages. If something went south maybe a IRC channel would be good.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 05:18 AM
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Great idea

Cause when its broke,

will be tooo late to fix it.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by H1ght3chHippie
 


LOL yeah I think a HAM/CB radio and a low band am radio would be wise to have in the basement.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Actually all of that is not necessary.

Most servers use a single IP address and then use a host header to figure out which website to serve back to a browser.

However if you specify a port as well as a header then that port can be used to access the website.

So www.website.com becomes 96.84.128.53:9001

If website owners did that and had people bookmark that address DNS outages wouldn't be an issue.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 


Simple solution: put the ip in your hosts file. Add a line that says

67.228.0.162 www.abovetopsecret.com

On Linux or Mac the file is in /etc/hosts

Google says for eg. Windows 7 it is:

c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts

If it ever changes you will curse for a while that someone hacked ATS and then remember about it, comment it out, get the new IP address and update your hosts file for future safety



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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You can pop an entry into your hosts file, sure. But ATS servers and their upstream network infrastructure are likely dependent on external DNS to operate for any length of time. It's no good getting to the servers if they are busy making calls to nowhere.

Additionally, the third party advertising won't work. That's mainly what we all come here for, after all.





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