Japan tsunami survivors turn to exorcists for help- Many claim they are seeing ghosts of victims

reply to post by gunshooter

I'm surprised someone as intelligent as you won't even accept that this could be a possible theory.

Thank you for the compliment.

Do you think it impossible that PTSD is a cause?

Did I say that ghosts are not a possibility? Personally, I don't believe it to be the case but my beliefs aren't any more relevant than any one else's, are they?

reply to post by Phage


Hey Phage , I have no problem with skeptics, but please stick to what you know and debunking ufos is one but def not the paranormal. I know you are more of a science guy, and don't believe in anything and everything has a rational explanation in your eyes. right? im betting you are an atheist also? but i don't know that as fact. well I do not care what scientist say about this subject,when it comes to this they let themselves be blinded by something they cant explain so just say people are hallucinating and problem solved... PTSD is just another excuse because they can not find a rational explanation ....seeing is believing..and everyone is not hallucinating or nuts...and it all isnt fake....please some believers would like to see a thread about things unknown without people acing like they can explain everything under the sun these skeptics. just live to derail and debunk threads...imho
If they cant explain it people must be crazy is getting real old!!

What a great thread -- were it not for the incessant naysayers... the link below is a recent interview with researcher Ralph Steiner (interviewed by W. Streiber), who describes technological methods of communication with the dead, and with entities beyond the dead.

I realize that many will not deem this evidence to be "proof", but perhaps it will give them the opportunity to jump off their unstoppable band wagon of believing in only that which meets the eye.

Ralph Steiner is a consummate expert, and tells us about the history of these systems, starting with Thomas Edison's early voice captures to modern devices such as the astonishing and rare Luminator, which Ralph has studied and had personal experience with. To see some of the Luminator photographs, go to Mark Macy's website, MacyAfterlife.com.

Dreamland

edit on 7-3-2013 by antoinemarionette because: BIG PROBLEMS - THREAD HAUNTED!!!

edit on 7-3-2013 by antoinemarionette because: (no reason given)

reply to post by paradiselost333

If they cant explain it people must be crazy is getting real old!!

I guess some people consider PTSD to be "crazy".

Aside from the fact that I am not the topic, why does offering "mundane" explanations bother you so much? What's wrong with me offering my opinion? Have I ridiculed anyone? Called them names? Clearly I'm in the minority here. Do you see me as a threat?

reply to post by Phage


no ....just saying things we do not understand need to be discussed without pre conceived "answers "
you just happen to be the skeptic on this one...
not meant to be an attack....at all
sorry about the rant ...not trying to derail this thread ....
great subject ....S$F

Originally posted by Phage

Do you think it impossible that PTSD is a cause?

Did I say that ghosts are not a possibility? Personally, I don't believe it to be the case but my beliefs aren't any more relevant than any one else's, are they?

It is not impossible, in the example of the article linked, however...

My question to you is, what happens when ones "beliefs" are unwelcomingly confronted with experience?
St. Stephans Parish in Framingham Ma. has a record of sending a priest to my grandmothers home to explore what was happening ( grandmoms wasnt religious at the time, just didnt know where else to turn).

Framingham Union Hospital (now the metrowest medical center) and the Framingham P.D. also have records of the injuries this priest suffered.

Needless to say at that point my family relocated.

Interestingly enough, i met a girl a few years later (in high school), she invited to her house and when she told me to pull into "that" driveway i kept driving....
Her, her sister and her father all would attest to the activity in that house.

Where does life go when people "die"?

How did life get here?

Where is it from?

Theres no data for that either, but we readily accept that life exists. People who have never seen a ghost first hand will tell you they don't exist. No amount of "data" will convince them either. According to them people that have seen ghosts fall into one of three categories.

They are traumatized,
They are ill,
They are mistaken.

There is no fourth possibility for them, even if they see one personally, they will attribute it to a bit of mold on bread before they will allow themselves to explore any other possibility. They are materialists pure and simple. If they can't see hear for touch it then it doesn't exist. Which actually is kind of narrow minded.

If I was a ghost and I met one of these people, I would pass them on by, whats the use. Anything they try will be met with disbelief or denial, so why bother?

Sometimes sightings happen where some see something and some don't. I believe this is why that happens. Some are open and some aren't. Some are passed by. They have no yearning, no searching on a spiritual level.

So why bother with them.

reply to post by RadicalRebel

My question to you is, what happens when ones "beliefs" are unwelcomingly confronted with experience?

Having never experienced any paranormal activity I am in no position to offer an opinion. However, I have friends who have. I do not doubt they experienced something.

However I do know that the human mind is an incredibly complex thing. I know that it can create sensory illusions. I know that it is subject to suggestion.

I also know that the paranormal field is rife with fraud. Fraud which preys upon the hopes and yearnings (and guilt) of people who have suffered loss.

Earlier someone questioned my reference to Houdini.
www.thegreatharryhoudini.com...

If a ghost is a representation of an individual then body parts ok. But if a ghost is the spiritual part of a person, then they are not seeing ghosts. Spirit doesn't lose limbs!

Great point.....ghosts theortically have perfect bodies do they not?
Or is that spirits have the perfect bodies and ghosts are simply a negative imprint of the deceased on times fabric...sort of like an akashic recording of them...Who is to say exactly how many realms or layers exist?
Even in ones own mind, one cannot source the origin of ones own thoughts ....
Why and for what purpose do these thoughts come into our minds unbidden.....
this goes on constantly while awake, unless very skilled and concerted efforts to still this mental blabbermouth are taken...
This implies a sort of loss of free will on our part...as if somebody else was driving....
The point has been made that we could be spiritual beings having a human experience....ala the matrix and other scenarios...
After death there apears to be nothing much to fear...at least as far as some recently dead have reported....but many of them agreed in rough princip[al as to what happened...
Children have reported previous lives and they seem to be able to prove some of these claims....
Like the Swami says.................................." All is illusion"
.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by gunshooter

 

Do you think it impossible that PTSD is a cause?

Did I say that ghosts are not a possibility? Personally, I don't believe it to be the case but my beliefs aren't any more relevant than any one else's, are they?

edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

When a bunch of people claim to have witnessed ghosts, and you reply "It is PTSD."

You may as well be saying "No, it is not ghosts."

So yes, you did in so many words

Just nitpicking, but it would be 'nice' if instead of using "is" all the time, we used "maybe".
Being on the fence = can see both sides very clearly, albeit an uncomfortable seat.

Personal disclosure: Paranormal has merit to it, many people of many cultures and walks of life/professions have had *many* experiences - many of which (across continents, cultures) relate very strongly with each other.

The idea that media/legends influence our perception of these strange events might be very on point; however regardless of how the person perceives the event, the events continue to take place.

The Phase - though a funky documentary - gave an interesting take on this phenomena.... Lemme try to find it:

"It's an astounding coincidence: in the absolute majority of accounts of the supernatural, be they biblical miracles, UFOs or paranormal phenomena, the protagonist had been falling asleep or waking up at the crucial moment.

As a result, there is something out there that has forever altered human history and culture -- something we know nothing about.
What are they keeping from us? Who stunted human development and who has something to gain from that? What's hidden inside each and every one of us -- and what does it hold for the future?"

reply to post by ThinkingCap

Just nitpicking, but it would be 'nice' if instead of using "is" all the time, we used "maybe".

Maybe. But like saying "imo" it's sort of redundant as far as I'm concerned.

Paranormal has merit to it, many people of many cultures and walks of life/professions have had *many* experiences - many of which (across continents, cultures) relate very strongly with each other.

Yes. In spite of our cultural differences we all have human minds which work in a human manner. But there are cultural differences in paranormal experiences, aren't there?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by gunshooter

 

I'm surprised someone as intelligent as you won't even accept that this could be a possible theory.

Thank you for the compliment.

Do you think it impossible that PTSD is a cause?

Did I say that ghosts are not a possibility? Personally, I don't believe it to be the case but my beliefs aren't any more relevant than any one else's, are they?

edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

No, I dont think its impossible for ptsd to be a cause. All I'm saying is that you said "four words, ptsd" like you were totally adamant that this is all it could be, and nothing more, not offering any other theory, or leaving it open to debate. All I am saying is that this world is a strange place, and it could be exactly what they are really seeing. I just choose to believe that this could be a viable theory. I guess it was the inflection you used in your post, not that i can tell your tone or pitch from what you typed. But seeming that you were not open to other non mainstream theories. No disrespect meant.

reply to post by RadicalRebel

Of interest - '48 Warren' totals to Master 33 (Chaldean numerology) and is the number of Sacrifice...literally.

So the energy on and around this property would hold a heavy aura of exactly that - sacrifice. Of limb, arm, sanity...and life in the name of the greater good.

Definitely a spot where ghosts and memory impressions could be viewed or felt.

Namaste.
GI

reply to post by gunshooter

No, I dont think its impossible for ptsd to be a cause.

Good. I didn't say it's impossible it was ghosts.
But I don't think it was.

Originally posted by Phage
Four words.
PTSD.

The Japanese have a cultural predilection to obake.
Not at all surprising that PSTD would manifest in this form.

edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Explanation: Uhmmm?

Posttraumatic stress disorder [wiki]

Posttraumatic stress disorder[note 1] (PTSD) is a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any event that results in psychological trauma. This event may involve the threat of death to oneself or to someone else, or to one's own or someone else's physical, sexual, or psychological integrity, overwhelming the individual's ability to cope. As an effect of psychological trauma, PTSD is less frequent and more enduring than the more commonly seen post traumatic stress (also known as acute stress response). Diagnostic symptoms for PTSD include re-experiencing the original trauma(s) through flashbacks or nightmares, avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma, and increased arousal—such as difficulty falling or staying asleep, anger, and hypervigilance. Formal diagnostic criteria (both DSM-IV-TR and ICD-10) require that the symptoms last more than one month and cause significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Flashback (psychology) [wiki]

A flashback, or involuntary recurrent memory, is a psychological phenomenon in which an individual has a sudden, usually powerful, re-experiencing of a past experience or elements of a past experience. These experiences can be happy, sad, exciting, or any other emotion one can consider. The term is used particularly when the memory is recalled involuntarily, and/or when it is so intense that the person "relives" the experience, unable to fully recognize it as memory and not something that is happening in "real time".

I would question the details of the data to try work out if PTSD Flashbacks apply ... and I don't think the data proves Flashbacks to be the case [I am open to being convinced otherwise ok]!

Flashbacks, to me at least, implies a total split with reality as it is at that time and the data to hand isn't showing that to be the case.

Nor does the data seem to imply ... "that the symptoms last more than one month and cause significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."!

Personal Disclosure: This leaves the door open, IMO, to the possibility of ghosts!

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Explanation: S&F!

Personal Disclosure: SPOOKY!

P.S. May the victims of the Japanese Tsunami all R.I.P. and may the survivors get well asap!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The Japanese people were VERY OPEN to the afterlife and to spooks.

Yes. They are.
And traumatic stress could indeed manifest itself as hallucinations drawing on that deep cultural influence.

Hmm.... this is daytime talk-show cod psychology at its clumsiest. You shouldn't criticise the strength of other people's arguments when you are coming out with this kind of half-assed stuff.

Radiation affecting the brains of people?

Is that possible?

reply to post by Xaphan


We do have influx's of x rays coming in all the time, maybe a lingering spirit is seen because of that... I don't know but its worth looking into.

reply to post by Millions


Explanation: St*rred!

I agree and here is why ...

Note: quoted from the wiki link on Flashbacks that I supplied in my previous post.

Clinical investigationsTo date, the specific causes of flashbacks have not yet been confirmed. Several studies have proposed various potential factors. Gunasekaran et al., 2009, indicate there may be a link between food deprivation and stress on the occurrence of flashbacks. Neurologists suggest temporal lobe seizures may also have some relation.

On the reverse side, several ideas have been discounted in terms of their causing flashbacks. Tym et al., 2009, suggest this list includes medication or other substances, Charles Bonnet syndrome, delayed palinopsia, hallucinations, dissociative phenomena, and depersonalization syndrome.

A study of the persistence of traumatic memories in World War II prisoners of war investigates through the administration of surveys the extent and severity of flashbacks that occur in prisoners of war. This study concluded that the persistence of severely traumatic autobiographical memories can last upwards of 65 years. Until recently, the study of flashbacks has been limited to participants who already experience flashbacks, such as those suffering from posttraumatic stress disorder, restricting researchers to observational/exploratory rather than experimental studies.

Please note I have bolded and underline the relevant data for emphasis and clarity ok.

Hallucinations have been clinically discounted as PTSD or even causing PTSD!

Personal Disclosure: I hope this helps us analize this in the right frame of mind ok!

reply to post by OmegaLogos

Hallucinations have been clinically discounted as PTSD or even causing PTSD!

That isn't what it says. It says that hallucinations have been discounted as the cause of flashbacks, it doesn't say there were no hallucinations.. We aren't talking about flashbacks.

Positive symptoms are characterized by the presence of unusual feelings, thoughts, or behaviors. Positive symptoms include such experiences as hallucinations or delusions. A hallucination could be hearing voices that no one else can hear, or seeing things that are not really there.

ptsd.about.com...