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Clouds can persist for hours - so why can't contrails do so too??

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posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by Infi8nity


So ridicule me instead of asking me questions on why i KNOW ehh?


But what do you know? You observe and watch the skies and aircraft and form an opinion, but do you really grasp the basics? Do you still standby your post from 2012?

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Last summer we had 100 degree + weather for 100+ days. So they cant be contrails because they stayed up all day in 100+ degree weather. ........ How can contrails witch are made out of FROZEN WATER vapor form in front of 100 degree+ sun?


I suppose WW2 bomber aircrew wore cold weather gear during the summer just for the fun of it? Aircrew during WW2 ran the risk of frostbite even during the height of the summer.

See page 646

Note the temperatures even during the height of the Summer?

'Incidence of High-Altitude Cold Injury, Eighth Air Force'

www.afhso.af.mil...




posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
 




Explain to me why chemtrails cannot exist.

That's not exactly the topic but I never said they could not exist. I also haven't got any reason to believe they do.
I also don't have any reason to believe they would resemble persistent contrails if they did exist.


Just because their is no evidence witch would hold up in court dose not mean they do not exist.


The best part was when you started off complaining that no one replied to your first post...

I bet you get that a lot, huh?



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:07 AM
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Clear air contains water vapor, inside the cloud the air is saturated with water vapor and it has condensed out to produce the cloud.

A contrail is an artificial cloud produced by water vapor from the engines of the aircraft and can last from seconds to hours depending on temperature and humidity.

There's no conspiracy just logic if you search for it.

But if you can't be bothered searching for it...... then yes, they are chemical rails arranged by a race of gay aliens with elongated heads in cahoots with the Chinese government secretly based in Alabama to wipe out idiots before they invade. Trouble is it's not working.
edit on 7-3-2013 by pacifier2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by tinhattribunal
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 



And they exist because of the atmospheric conditions that exist in that volume of the atmosphere - they can be affected as fast as conditions change throughout that volume.

yah, contrails that linger for extended periods of time are obviously not being affected by changing conditions, it must be because there is something in addition to water vapor in the exaust.


Seems more likely to me that the contrails are changing slowly because conditions are changing slowly - just like conditions change slowly for natural clouds some times.




The initial nucleation is provided by the particles of soot whatever else is in the exhaust - and then the newly formed ice crystals themselves provide for nucleation themselves.

so if there were an overabundence of chemicals added to the exhaust, beyond what is normally found, it would have the potential to produce a large trail that would last a long time and be able to spread out and join with other trails that are being sprayed, forming artificial clouds that would block out the sun and, at some point, dispence their chemical content on unsuspecting civilians below.

wow! that's horrible!


It is also wrong.

Adding something to the exhaust would probably make no difference - if conditions are right for persistent contrails to form then here is already enough nucleation material without adding anything else - adding more will not make the contrail any bigger because once nucleation starts its size depends upon the amount of water in the atmosphere, not the amount of nuclei present.

If conditions are not right for persistent contrails to form then it doesn't matter what or how much nucleation material you have - the contrails will not form.



something should be done to stop this!


Yes indeed - learning about contrails would stop the ignorance.
edit on 7-3-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: get the quotes right



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Actually yes it was. Google project plowshare.

The Russians even went a step further and used nuclear warheads on a massive scale for engineering and scientific purposes.

I'm quoting the CTBTO here:


. Of the nearly 2,050 nuclear explosions detonated in the world between 1945 and 1996, over 150 or approximately 7 % were for peaceful purposes


That's roughly 145 nuclear explosions for exactly the purpose you said they never used it for.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by tinhattribunal
as opposed to clouds that suddenly disappear before your eyes?



You need to sky watch some more. Not just looking at contrails, either.
You can on occasion see areas of clear (no clouds) in an large area of cirrus clouds and contrails.
This is a visual sign that the clear area is a region with different conditions than the atmosphere around it. This happens quite a lot, but if you don't look with a bit of knowledge, you don't notice.
When a plane leaving contrails flies into this area, the contrail does not persist. The air is not saturated, therefore the contrail sublimes. When the plane exits the area, the contrail will once again persist.
When a cirrus cloud drifts into this area, it will sublime too. They disappear, fairly quickly.
While you are observing this, notice how the plane in the clear section seems often to also disappear. They are not fake planes, holograms, or ufo's, they are silver, blue or white on the bottom, so they blend in. They also look very small because they are miles away.
You only have to really watch, not just "look up."



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
One of the commom memes of the chemtrail hoax is that contrails can only persist for a few seconds or minutes, so anything that lasts longer than some similar time cannot be a contrail and therefore must be a chemtrail.

You see clouds persisting for hours - clouds are water droplets, or if they are cirrus clouds they are ice crystals.

So how is it these clouds can persist for hours but contrails supposedly can not, even though they are made up of the same thing - water??

And yes I know that "clouds" are "natural" and contrails are "artificial" - but nonetheless they are still both only water, so why do you insist they behave differently?


This is like saying Airplanes are Cloud Machines.

The thing is contrails linger. They are thick, White and do not move like clouds do.

Another thing is. If the Airplanes are creating contrail "Clouds" why are there pictures of Chemtrails on a clear day that linger? Wouldn't there be other clouds in the air if the weather was perfect enough for an airplane to create a cloud?



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by H1ght3chHippie
 

Yeah. I was talking about the US.
No harbors were dredged. Just because they talked about it doesn't mean they did it. Which was the point.
edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by JrDavis
Another thing is. If the Airplanes are creating contrail "Clouds" why are there pictures of Chemtrails on a clear day that linger? Wouldn't there be other clouds in the air if the weather was perfect enough for an airplane to create a cloud?


the aircraft that flew through that "perfect air" produced an exhaust that was super heated and took in air with humidity, and exhausted air with humidity which then bonded with the frozen particles to produce a visible "cloud". Without one part of the process, (the plane in this case) the sky would remain as it was.

When warmer air mixes with colder air, clouds can form.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by tommyjo
 


Just my 2p worth. I'm not providing links etc for the following as it is from my brain rather than google. Some of the following points answer certain questions I have just read over the last few pages;

- Cirrus clouds exist in cold humid air at high altitudes. In the daytime, the sun will always be shining on cirrus clouds as long as it is above the 'cloud horizon'.

- Contrails are cirrus clouds formed artificially by the heat from a jet exhaust. A byproduct, not a plan.

- Cirrus clouds don't evaporate despite the sun shining on them because a high percentage is reflected, another high percentage passes through them. Only a small fraction is absorbed and this has a minimal effect in extreme cold temperatures and lower pressures at high altitude.

- Contrails can evaporate quickly at lower altitudes or in drier air. If the relative humidity is below a certain %, the air will absorb the water. This is also in conditions where 'fair weather' cumulus clouds form and disappear regularly due to evaporation - warm moist air meets cold dry air - moisture eventually absorbs into the air when it meets an area at the right temperature.

- Basically, all contrails can bhave differently and depend completely on the weather conditions. I have observed contrails being more frequent, persistant and likely do spread over a large area in cold weather on the leading edge of a warm front carrying moist air. In the summer when the temperature is higher, you tend to get the straight line contrails which fade out gradually from the back

- Contrails are more common now because of the increase in air traffic

- Some planes create contrails at any one time while others don't due to varying factors such as different temps at different altitudes, variations in atmospheric pressure, different exhaust temperatures, aircraft velocity.. to name but a few.

I have said this before, if chemtrails exist, then they do in very small experimental numbers in a few locations around the world. If it was widespread, every airline operating today must be taking part. Passenger planes would have to be fitted with huge tanks to store the chemicals and commercial pilots would knowingly be spraying chemicals onto their families and friends on a daily basis. Highly unlikely.

Yes, planes can have an adverse effect on weather, blocking sun but this is a byproduct, a result of increasing demand for air travel. We can only blame ourselves for it in the same way that it is us that are chopping down forests and filling the sea with plastic. Point that finger away from the 'chemtrail spreaders' and direct it at a mirror.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by JrDavis
Another thing is. If the Airplanes are creating contrail "Clouds" why are there pictures of Chemtrails on a clear day that linger? Wouldn't there be other clouds in the air if the weather was perfect enough for an airplane to create a cloud?


the aircraft that flew through that "perfect air" produced an exhaust that was super heated and took in air with humidity, and exhausted air with humidity which then bonded with the frozen particles to produce a visible "cloud". Without one part of the process, (the plane in this case) the sky would remain as it was.

When warmer air mixes with colder air, clouds can form.


You do realize you're saying the airplane is creating clouds right?

Well that makes sense... I guess.

United States Patent and Trademark Office,

1957075 – May 1, 1934 – Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 – November 2, 1937 – Electric Stream Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2409201 – October 15, 1946 – Smoke Producing Mixture
2476171 – July 18, 1945 – Smoke Screen Generator
2480967 – September 6, 1949 – Aerial Discharge Device
2550324 – April 24, 1951 – Process For Controlling Weather
2510867 – October 9, 1951 – Method of Crystal Formation and Precipitation
2582678 – June 15, 1952 – Material Disseminating Apparatus For Airplanes
2591988 – April 8, 1952 – Production of TiO2 Pigments – Referenced in 3899144
2614083 – October 14, 1952 – Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture
2633455 – March 31, 1953 – Smoke Generator
2688069 – August 31, 1954 – Steam Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2721495 – October 25, 1955 – Method And Apparatus For Detecting Minute Crystal Forming Particles Suspended in a Gaseous Atmosphere
2730402 – January 10, 1956 – Controllable Dispersal Device
2801322 – July 30, 1957 – Decomposition Chamber for Monopropellant Fuel – Referenced in 3990987
2881335 – April 7, 1959 – Generation of Electrical Fields

3899144 – August 12, 1975 – Powder contrail generation
3940059 – February 24, 1976 – Method For Fog Dispersion
3940060 – February 24, 1976 – Vortex Ring Generator
3990987 – November 9, 1976 – Smoke generator
3992628 – November 16, 1976 – Countermeasure system for laser radiation
3994437 – November 30, 1976 – Broadcast dissemination of trace quantities of biologically active chemicals
4042196 – August 16, 1977 – Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes

4415265 – November 15, 1983 – Method and apparatus for aerosol particle absorption spectroscopy
4470544 – September 11, 1984 – Method of and Means for weather modification
4475927 – October 9, 1984 – Bipolar Fog Abatement System
4600147 – July 15, 1986 – Liquid propane generator for cloud seeding apparatus
4633714 – January 6, 1987 – Aerosol particle charge and size analyzer
4643355 – February 17, 1987 – Method and apparatus for modification of climatic conditions
4653690 – March 31, 1987 – Method of producing cumulus clouds
4684063 – August 4, 1987 – Particulates generation and removal
4686605 – August 11, 1987 – Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth’s atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere
4704942 – November 10, 1987 – Charged Aerosol
4712155 – December 8, 1987 – Method and apparatus for creating an artificial electron cyclotron heating region of plasma
4744919 – May 17, 1988 – Method of dispersing particulate aerosol tracer
4766725 – August 30, 1988 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
4829838 – May 16, 1989 – Method and apparatus for the measurement of the size of particles entrained in a gas
4836086 – June 6, 1989 – Apparatus and method for the mixing and diffusion of warm and cold air for dissolving fog
4873928 – October 17, 1989 – Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation

5984239 – November 16, 1999 – Weather modification by artificial satellite
6025402 – February 15, 2000 – Chemical composition for effectuating a reduction of visibility obscuration, and a detoxifixation of fumes and chemical fogs in spaces of fire origin
6030506 – February 29, 2000 – Preparation of independently generated highly reactive chemical species
6034073 – March 7, 2000 – Solvent detergent emulsions having antiviral activity
6045089 – April 4, 2000 – Solar-powered airplane
6056203 – May 2, 2000 – Method and apparatus for modifying supercooled clouds
6110590 – August 29, 2000 – Synthetically spun silk nanofibers and a process for making the same
6263744 – July 24, 2001 – Automated mobility-classified-aerosol detector
6281972 – August 28, 2001 – Method and apparatus for measuring particle-size distribution
6315213 – November 13, 2001 – Method of modifying weather
6382526 – May 7, 2002 – Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers
6408704 – June 25, 2002 – Aerodynamic particle size analysis method and apparatus
6412416 – July 2, 2002 – Propellant-based aerosol generation devices and method
and the list goes on...
edit on 7-3-2013 by JrDavis because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by JrDavis
 


A patent doesn't mean that the technology is in daily use across the planet. It means the capability is there. I think most of us know that weather can be altered and it is sometimes done but this does not mean that contrails are infact chemtrails.

Look atflightradar and find out what aircraft is making what trail in the sky and then ask yourself... why would a commercial flight be spreading chemicals onto your head. Also. When you see trails in the distance, they can be in excess of 50 miles away which in many cases would extend beyond city limits. Do they also need to spread these chemicals onto the sheep to keep them in order?



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by JrDavis
 

You should have provided the source of that silly list.
www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

Now go through it and find something that relates to "chemtrails". And I suggest to actually read the patents so you don't end up looking as silly as whoever compiled the list.

I see cloud seeding.
I see crop dusting.
I see...electric fields?
I see...Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation ?
I see...solar-powered airplane?


edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by fiftyfifty
reply to post by JrDavis
 


A patent doesn't mean that the technology is in daily use across the planet. It means the capability is there. I think most of us know that weather can be altered and it is sometimes done but this does not mean that contrails are infact chemtrails.

Look atflightradar and find out what aircraft is making what trail in the sky and then ask yourself... why would a commercial flight be spreading chemicals onto your head. Also. When you see trails in the distance, they can be in excess of 50 miles away which in many cases would extend beyond city limits. Do they also need to spread these chemicals onto the sheep to keep them in order?


Woah who said it was a commerical Airliner?



"That is not rain, That is not snow, Believe it or not that is Military Aircraft flying through the region that are dropping Chaff"

The video covers many meteorologists who say the same thing. They are dropping Aluminum, "Sometimes it's made of plastic". Used as an Anti Radar.

Now why a military jet would need to avoid radar in the states is beyond me.

The fact is they are dropping SOMETHING. Now aluminum toxicity is bad. The only metals the body can digest is gold and silver. Aluminum contributes to heavy metal toxicity.

Still not convinced? Fine.

How about Carnicom who has studying the Morgellons disease.

In the year 2000 he took an air sample from a mountain top high in New Mexico. Where he found aluminum, mercury, Morgellons fibers, etc. This was recently chemtrailed.

You can read all about it here.

www.carnicominstitute.org...

Aerosol Operation Crimes and Cover ups.

www.carnicominstitute.org...




"The Carnicom Institute remains strongly focused on the geo-engineering issues and their correlation with the biological research and bioengineering topics that are under intensive study throughout the past several years. The reader is encouraged to investigate the connections between these two broad areas of research that are extensively examined on this site."



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by JrDavis
 


Now why a military jet would need to avoid radar in the states is beyond me.
Because they are training in techniques to avoid getting hit by missiles? Seems like a good idea to me. But it isn't a very good way to avoid radar. Chaff makes a big splash on the radar scope.


Aluminum contributes to heavy metal toxicity.
Evidence of toxicity please?
But just how are you going to get these fibers of aluminum coated fiberglass into your body?



How about Carnicom who has studying the Morgellons disease.
Carnicom is a fraud. And chaff has nothing to do with "chemtrails".
edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by JrDavis
 

You should have provided the source of that silly list.
www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

Now go through it and find something that relates to "chemtrails". And I suggest to actually read the patents so you don't end up looking as silly as whoever compiled the list.

I see cloud seeding.
I see crop dusting.
I see...electric fields?
I see...Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation ?
I see...solar-powered airplane?


edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)


Are you serious right now? I know you understand how the chemtrails work.

And you're going to joke around like none of these patents show chemtrail activity?




A mixture of seeding, pollutant inhibiting, and co-alescing chemicals are vaporized and dispersed in a jetting action into the atmosphere to provide an aggregate of nuclei on the order of subcolloidal approximately submicromolecular sizes upon which nucleations of water vapor in the atmosphere take place free from adjacent nucleations to form water droplets and ice crystals with accompanying releases of latent heat, the water droplets, ice crystals further serving as nuclei in a breeding action for a chain reaction of latent heat releases with the vaporized coalescing chemicals aiding in the coalescence of water droplets and the released latent heat diffuses upwardly in an outward expansion to produce an updraft whereby to puncture atmospheric inversions and inhibit the formation of secondary pollutants.


Submicromolecular? Chemicals are vaporized and disperse in a jetting action into the atmosphere to provide an aggregate of nuclei on the order of subcolloidal?

Basically in english they are saying they are putting submicro particles into the atmosphere.

3613992 – October 19, 1971 – Weather Modification Method

Self explanatory.

RE29,142 – February 22, 1977 – Reissue of: 03630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols,



A combustible composition for generating aerosols for the control and modification of weather conditions consisting of a readily oxidizable substance selected from the group consisting of aluminum, magnesium, alkali-metals and alkaline earth metals; an oxidizing agent selected from the groups consisting of:


So you have a patent that says you can vaporize and put submicro particles into the air. Their excuse? To control the weather.

Then you have another saying they are going to use substances such as Aluminum, Mag and Alkaline metals.

Hmmmm

Wonder what that would look like in operation.




posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by JrDavis
 


Basically in english they are saying they are putting submicro particles into the atmosphere.
Yes. It's called cloud seeding and it has nothing to do with "chemtrails".


Their excuse? To control the weather.
No. To modify existing weather. To try to get rain out of existing clouds. Nothing to do with "chemtrails".


Wonder what that would look like in operation.
Wonder no more.

edit on 3/7/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


No point in proving heavy metal toxicity. Ask your Dr. to do a hair analysis. Or urine, Since that seems to be more accurate.

If there wasn't such a thing as heavy metal toxicity we wouldn't use things like Chlorella to remove mercury from the body.

That is if you even believe in Mercury toxicity
.

Please site the source showing Carnicom is a fraud.

And btw, The fibers present in morgellons are not Aluminum fibers. They aren't even Micron size fibers.

You can read all about the false report here.

www.carnicominstitute.org...




1. A laboratory in the southwestern United States was privately contracted in the fall of 1999 to identify an airborne environmental filament sample. The nature of this environmental filament has been discussed and researched extensively on this site over the subsequent years. A portion of this same sample was sent to the EPA for identification as noted above. The reason for contracting with the private company was because of the failure of the EPA to identify the material.





2. The laboratory report was issued in December of 1999 with joint responsibility of findings between three separate companies. The report claims to use the results of infra-red spectroscopic analysis and Polarized Light Microscope Analysis on the sample.





4. At the same time that the laboratory was conducting their tests, I also was conducting my own tests on this same sample material. The results of that testing process are extensively reported on within this web site. Certain primary conclusions were being reached on my side about the nature of the material such as size, chemical reactivity, microscopy results, conditions of collection and the like. Prior to the results being officially released, we were given the subjective information above relaying that the material "could be" a "spider's web". It was quite clear to me from my own analysis that the testing results were inadequate and inaccurate, as it was already evident that the material was not a "spider web". The final report claiming to use spectral analysis was then issued, and it was clear to me at this point that a contest of conclusions was in order. It was equally obvious through any reasoned analysis that the material was likewise not a wool fiber or any other obvious fabric or textile. Readers familiar with "counter arguments" of the period will also know that a commonly circulated theme by a relatively small group of vocal advocates was that the material was simply a "spider's web that had fallen from the sky."... There were also questions that had emerged from the spectral reports themselves.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


You're missing the whole point...

You think Aluminum should be used in the air? You think any type of "Earth Metal" should be allowed to become vaporized and shot into the air.

Keep in mind how many "Earth Metals" there are.

Also, It seems you agree they are "Seeding" and using some of this technology now.

So who is the one that is watching over this?

They just use the technology whenever they want? And since in the patent it says it's for good then we just accept?

Why are you on a conspiracy website if you can't see that technology can be used for bad. Just because there is a patent that says we are going to do X with this technology. Does not always mean they are going to follow the rules and actually do that.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by JrDavis
 


And btw, The fibers present in morgellons are not Aluminum fibers. They aren't even Micron size fibers.
I didn't say they were. I was showing you what chaff looks like.

Carnicom's "red wine test".
www.aromadictionary.com...


"Morgellons"
www.mayoclinic.com...





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