Clouds can persist for hours - so why can't contrails do so too??

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posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Infi8nity

Explain to me how a contrail expands into a massive line witch reflects sun light.


Phage has done the reflection bit.

the expansion bit is because the ice crystals themselves are cloud condensation nuclei - the requirement for contrails persistence is supersaturation of the atmosphere with respect to ice - it is a pretty complex situation that I am not sure I fully understand myself that is explained a bit in this wiki page on the Bergeron process - although as I understand it that applies toi mixed-phase clouds where there is both liquid and ice particles.

But essentially contrails (and also cirrus cloud) spread because the atmosphere is supersaturated with ice - ie it has over 100% of its carrying capacity - and as soon as there is something for that ice to nucleate on it comes out of solution with the air and forms crystals.

The initial nucleation is provided by the particles of soot whatever else is in the exhaust - and then the newly formed ice crystals themselves provide for nucleation themselves.


The sun directly pounding on it, you can see a orange glow from it. Their is no way it would remain frozen.


Even in direct sunlight it is -40 degrees C up there - nothing is going to melt or sublimate just because of the sunlight.


I dont even know why im arguing with you guys.


Probably because you want to get a better understanding of this phenomena so you don't have to worry about it any more - there is enough real shirt to worry about in the world without this hoax!




posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Infi8nity




I dont even know why im arguing with you guys.


Probably because you want to get a better understanding of this phenomena so you don't have to worry about it any more - there is enough real shirt to worry about in the world without this hoax!



No one is ever going to convince me otherwise. The # I know and seen is just too much. I do not even bother researching the topic because I know without a doubt. Its far to big a of a operation, gotta keep mouths shut.
Any ways you wont see me on your "hoax" threads any more. I am convinced the majority of the people on this site can see whats going on. If you get one a day is it even worth it. I guess it must be efficient or it would not be.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by Infi8nity
 




No one is ever going to convince me otherwise.

That's the third self-proclamation of having a closed mind I've seen this week.
When did that become something to be proud of? Especially on ATS?
edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by Infi8nity

No one is ever going to convince me otherwise. The # I know and seen is just too much. I do not even bother researching the topic because I know without a doubt.


Ah - sorry - I didn't realise you were one of those who is so deeply brainwashed by the cult that you are not interested in any facts at all.

My sympathies - I hope you can get out of it some time.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
 




No one is ever going to convince me otherwise.

That's the third self-proclamation of having a closed mind I've seen this week.
When did that become something to be proud of? Especially on ATS?
edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)


So ridicule me instead of asking me questions on why i KNOW ehh?



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



Contrails are clouds of ice crystals, pretty much the same as cirrus clouds.

so, if they are the same thing in the same enviornment, why do contrails disappear so soon after they form?





posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by tinhattribunal
 

If cirrus clouds are present at the same altitude contrails do not disappear soon after they form.
That's why it isn't uncommon to see a mixture of cirrus clouds and persistent contrails.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by Infi8nity
 




So ridicule me instead of asking me questions on why i KNOW ehh?

I just repeated what you said. It kind of surprised me.
You can tell what you know if you like. Why can't contrails persist for hours?
edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
 




So ridicule me instead of asking me questions on why i KNOW ehh?

I just repeated what you said. It kind of surprised me.
You can tell what you know if you like. Why can't contrails persist for hours?
edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)


I never said they could not....

Explain to me why chemtrails cannot exist.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by Infi8nity
 




Explain to me why chemtrails cannot exist.

That's not exactly the topic but I never said they could not exist. I also haven't got any reason to believe they do.
I also don't have any reason to believe they would resemble persistent contrails if they did exist.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
 




Explain to me why chemtrails cannot exist.

That's not exactly the topic but I never said they could not exist. I also haven't got any reason to believe they do.
I also don't have any reason to believe they would resemble persistent contrails if they did exist.


Just because their is no evidence witch would hold up in court dose not mean they do not exist.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 





Clouds can persist for hours - so why can't contrails do so too??

hmm...
that is a good question.
in fact, i have been noticing that the contrails from the planes i have been seeing disappear very quickly.
yet, at times, they will last much longer.
there must be a difference in some situations, what could it be? i wonder.



Yes jet exhaust does contain "other stuff" - CO2, CO, SOx, NOx, etc.

oh!
i suppose your right, there must be something else in the plane's exhuast that would effect how long it would remain visible.



And they exist because of the atmospheric conditions that exist in that volume of the atmosphere - they can be affected as fast as conditions change throughout that volume.

yah, contrails that linger for extended periods of time are obviously not being affected by changing conditions, it must be because there is something in addition to water vapor in the exaust.



The initial nucleation is provided by the particles of soot whatever else is in the exhaust - and then the newly formed ice crystals themselves provide for nucleation themselves.

so if there were an overabundence of chemicals added to the exhaust, beyond what is normally found, it would have the potential to produce a large trail that would last a long time and be able to spread out and join with other trails that are being sprayed, forming artificial clouds that would block out the sun and, at some point, dispence their chemical content on unsuspecting civilians below.

wow! that's horrible!
something should be done to stop this!



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Infi8nity
 

When are you going to tell me what you KNOW?
Does it have anything to do with the topic? Why can't contrails persist?



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by tinhattribunal
 




yet, at times, they will last much longer.

You mean like clouds do when the conditions are right?



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Infi8nity
Explain to me how a contrail expands into a massive line witch reflects sun light. The sun directly pounding on it, you can see a orange glow from it. Their is no way it would remain frozen.


So are you saying cirrus clouds CAN'T persist when the sun shines on them? I've seen thin cirrus clouds persist -- even when the sun is shining.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
 

When are you going to tell me what you KNOW?
Does it have anything to do with the topic? Why can't contrails persist?


I all ready told you I dont think that contrails cant persist....

Any ways like I said im done.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by Infi8nity
 


I all ready told you I dont think that contrails cant persist....


But haven't told us why you KNOW it yet.

So ridicule me instead of asking me questions on why i KNOW ehh?



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by tinhattribunal
 




yet, at times, they will last much longer.

You mean like clouds do when the conditions are right?

as opposed to clouds that suddenly disappear before your eyes?




posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by tinhattribunal
 

Sure. You haven't seen clouds disappear?
I watch the clouds a lot.

This seems to be real time, or very close to it. The shadows on the background peaks don't move.

edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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No one is ever going to convince me otherwise. The # I know and seen is just too much. I do not even bother researching the topic because I know without a doubt. Its far to big a of a operation, gotta keep mouths shut.
Any ways you wont see me on your "hoax" threads any more. I am convinced the majority of the people on this site can see whats going on. If you get one a day is it even worth it. I guess it must be efficient or it would not be.


reads to me as:

I don't like your science, I've seen a funny cloud with my own eyes, so I know better. You won't baffle me with your science talk I'm smrt then you!!! I seen it with my own eyes, I did. So stop lying. Also, you're all trolls. So there.

edit on 6-3-2013 by winofiend because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-3-2013 by winofiend because: man you really killed the quotes in this post...





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