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Sort of. You left out the part about how the condensed water in a contrail freezes because of the extremely cold temperatures.
This exhaust is hot as it exits the jet engine and condenses as it strikes the cold atmospheric air forming the contrail, much as your breath on a cold day. This exhaust cools quickly to the ambient temperature and dissipates as the heat source ,jet engine, moves away.
Originally posted by Iwinder
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
And yes I know that "clouds" are "natural" and contrails are "artificial" - but nonetheless they are still both only water, so why do you insist they behave differently?
Perhaps because they are two different things composed of two different makeups?
Surely Jet exhaust contains things that natural clouds do not contain.
They aren't exactly the same. Early in the life of a contrail there are noticeable difference in things like the size and numbers of the ice crystals. The longer the contrail persists, the less pronounced these differences are.
If you wish to clarify and say they are the "exact same" that would be a big help.
Sky photographs taken from 1986 to 1996 over Salt Lake City, Utah, reveal a seasonal cycle in contrail frequency, with a maximum in fall and winter and a minimum in July (Sassen, 1997).
When you compare a small batch of ice to a larger batch of ice the smaller one will melt faster.
Originally posted by Infi8nity
Clouds are much more dense, they can wight tons.
greenearthfacts.com...
Assuming a blue whale is close to 160 (160,000 kg) tones in weight, a cumulus cloud weighs as much as 6,268.75 blue whales!
When you compare a small batch of ice to a larger batch of ice the smaller one will melt faster.
Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
I missed it. Bottom of the page. Sorry.
When you compare a small batch of ice to a larger batch of ice the smaller one will melt faster.
I'm not sure of your point but the ice crystals in a cirrus cloud (or contrail) don't melt, they sublimate.
They also aren't in a clump. Take hand full pieces of ice about the same size and spread them out. They'll all melt (or sublimate) at the same rate.
edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Water is closer to what? The density of a cloud? I don't understand.
Depends on how far they are apart. A cloud is dense, water is closer.
The two what? I don't understand?
You cant really compare the 2, they are formed completely different.
Not so much. The main factor is the relative humidity with respect to ice.
I am positive that density effects the temperature of the of the whole. Sure they may sublimate but temperature is a factor.
Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
Water is closer to what? The density of a cloud? I don't understand.
Depends on how far they are apart. A cloud is dense, water is closer.
The two what? I don't understand?
You cant really compare the 2, they are formed completely different.
And again, I don't understand the point you are trying to make about melting ice.
Not so much. The main factor is the relative humidity with respect to ice.
I am positive that density effects the temperature of the of the whole. Sure they may sublimate but temperature is a factor.
Think about water. Does it evaporate faster on a day with low humidity or a day with high humidity?edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Come on we are disscussing 2 things clouds and contrails how could you not know what I was comparing.
Your not going to tell me temperature has no effect on ice dissipating. I am sure some of it melts, some of it turns into gas.
Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
The cloud is denser than what?
Water particles are closer to each other. The cloud is denser.
Your not going to tell me temperature has no effect on ice dissipating. I am sure some of it melts, some of it turns into gas.
At the altitudes at which clouds form the temperature never gets above freezing. Ice cannot melt at that altitude, it can only sublimate and it does that because of the low atmospheric pressure.edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
Sublimation is an endothermic phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures.
Contrails are clouds.
Clouds are denser then contrails
Sublimation is an endothermic phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures
below a substance's triple point in its phase diagram.
Originally posted by Infi8nity
When you compare a small batch of ice to a larger batch of ice the smaller one will melt faster.edit on 6-3-2013 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Infi8nity
Seriously come on man. Clouds are denser then contrails......
Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Infi8nity
I edited my post before I saw yours.
Contrails are clouds.
Clouds are denser then contrails
Sublimation is an endothermic phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures
You forgot this part of the statement and added a period that didn't belong there.
below a substance's triple point in its phase diagram.
en.wikipedia.org...
The triple point is freezing point for most purposes. The ice in contrails doesn't melt. It sublimates.
edit on 3/6/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)
No. I'm trying to answer your questions.
Your trying to annoy me right?
Explain to me how a contrail expands into a massive line witch reflects sun light. The sun directly pounding on it, you can see a orange glow from it. Their is no way it would remain frozen.