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"I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you"

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posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 04:49 AM
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... or How Christian Zionism has hijacked the promises made to Abraham.

1. The myth of Jewish chosenness.
Some of the myths perpetrated by the Christian Zionist movement is that the Jews/Israel alone are the rightful inheritors of not only the holy land, but also the blessings God gave to Abraham. These myths all revolve around the concept of Jewish chosenness and so, naturally fit in with the pro-Jewish interpretation of Bible prophecy as held by Christian Zionists.

Such pro-Jewish views are rationalized through misinterpretations of key Bible verses, such as Genesis 12:3 and 15:18. Unfortunately for many, this has created the illusion that the Bible itself endorses Christian Zionist ideas regarding Israel and the Jews. In this thread, we are going to take a closer look at those verses and determine if Christian Zionist claims are in line with whats actually in the Bible.


2. A closer look at the verses.

Example 1
"I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
-Genesis 12:3


This is by far one of the most misinterpreted verses in the Bible, so much so its pretty much the unofficial tag line for the Christian zionist movement. The Christian Zionist interpretation of it is that "all who blesses Israel are blessed and all who curse Israel are cursed."

However, when we read the surrounding verses we see that this special treatment applied to Abraham alone, NOT the Jews/Israel, who weren't even in existence when that was said to Abraham and wouldn't arrive on the scene until much later. That verse is basically saying those who bless Abraham would be blessed and those who curse him would be cursed and that in him shall all the families of the earth be blessed so there is absolutely no reference to there Jews.


Example 2
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates
-Genesis 15:18


Christian Zionists seem to be interpreting "descendants" to mean exclusively the Jews/Israel, thereby justifying the claim that the land is an exclusively Jewish inheritance.
However, Abrahams "descendants" would naturally include all his descendants through his three wives, Sarah, Hagar and Keturah... and not just the Jews/Israel. None of those descendants were even present when this promise was made to Abraham. Once again the Christian Zionists have hijacked this verse to refer only to a select group of people, the Jews/Israel despite the fact that it refers to Abraham's descendants.

The first lesson to be learnt here is that references to Abraham are not automatically references to Jews/Israel. The second lesson is that references to Abraham's descendants are not confined only to Jews/Israel. Abraham had other descendants as well, and so became a great nation through all his descendants, not just one particular son or grandson. This great nation is not just the Jews/Israel as Christian Zionists believe... and in doing so, they are discounting the promise that God made to Abraham.


3. God, the Jews and the land.
One verse can perfectly sums it up the whole deal between God and the Jews with regard to the land.

the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers.
- Leviticus 25:23


Yes. God owns that land, just as he owns the entire universe.
The Jews/Israel were only allowed to reside there as foreigners and strangers. Furthermore, their residence was purely conditional and depended solely on their obedience to God. Jews and Christian Zionists who make over confident assertions regarding Jewish inheritance of the land need to remember that God who let them have the land, could also take it back. There is plenty of scripture to support this.

You rely on your sword, you do detestable things.... Should you then possess the land?’ - Ezekiel 33:26
A modern interpretation of that could be "You live by your hi-tech military and weapons, you are nearly 30% secular atheist, you hold gay pride parades, prostitution is rampant in you, you have rejected the messiah... should you then possess the land?"

Christian Zionists don't seem to realize that modern Israels godlessness has disqualified them from possessing the land. Even to this day they have failed to show obedience to God. Should they then possess the land? In fact, the whole of Leviticus 26 outlines how their possession of the land and their blessings solely depended on their obedience to God. Going by modern Israels godlessness, perhaps they have been regathered on that land for one more round of punishment.

God knows best.

edit on 6-3-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



So depending on the specific bloodlines, favoritism may be afforded to those deemed worthy, wherein revenge will be bestowed on their behalf. During those special circumstances, the whole 'Forgiveness' thing is completely disregarded.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:34 AM
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I guess the Christian Zionists forget Matt. 23:35 "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.". Not to mention that Jesus also called them the synagogue of Satan and that they were of their father the devil.

How about the fact that Islam calls the USA the great Satan which supports Israel the synagogue of Satan. Is it any wonder why they are not happy with the USA with all the innocent blood shed in the Middle East. The Christian Zionists and Washington are happy to murder the innocent all at Israels bidding just because they believe the Jews are God's chosen people. They were so chosen that God used Titus in AD 70 to destroy the temple and the nation. Then the USA signed the paper creating the state of Israel again in 1948 and now the Christian Zionists and the Jews want to build the temple again!

Yep OP they take the verse completely out of context and make it read what they want it to say. Should they posses the land, NO, since they still fail to meet the criteria too do so.

Just IMHO.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 08:23 AM
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The lesson to be learned here is how one, well educated man from Sumeria authored a God, and a belief system that so permeates our world today, it is like a plague that will never allow peace in the world. If ever there was such a thing as an un-holy trinity, it has to be the three religions that came out of one man. No offense intended Skorp. Just my present thoughts on the matter.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 09:38 AM
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I'd we willing to support an Israeli/Jewish state with or without religion/blessings/curses if it meant keeping the Muslim extremists in check.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
I'd we willing to support an Israeli/Jewish state with or without religion/blessings/curses if it meant keeping the Muslim extremists in check.

even if the muslim 'extremists' are fighting injustices done by the said israeli state?
You would support anyone against islam even if that means supporting unjust rules/acts?
Or you would support justice no matter in whose favour or against whom it goes?



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Next you're going to tell me that the situation in Syria started over Israeli injustice.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7
 


Next you're going to tell me that the situation in Syria started over Israeli injustice.

israel is a scared little rat, a passive agressive bully who can't accept any hostile country around it and so manipulates to bring favourable rulers, Asad dint bend down and is too close to Iran, so the situation in Syria is devoloped to bring Sunni rulers, incidently that woúld mean someone like Muslim Brotherhood just like in Egypt which is no help to Israel anyway, the only result is thousands of deaths, its sick.
The arrogance that comes with thinking themselves as chosen people and which is now even fueled by zionist christians who almost look up to israel with dreamy adoring eyes is the cause of injustice.
The chosen status came with a covenant. Break the covenant forget the status.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
I'd we willing to support an Israeli/Jewish state with or without religion/blessings/curses if it meant keeping the Muslim extremists in check.

you are in a wrong way my friend. the corrupted leaders of Israel are and were always radical and extremists.
look at middle east. the Radical Zionist Christians and radical jews and radical muslims. they are all allies of each other and Syria is a good example of their alliance and their common goal.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 03:28 PM
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Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful. Koran 62:6



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



naturally fit in with the pro-Jewish interpretation of Bible prophecy as held by Christian Zionists.


So I suppose we should just rip Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 out of the Bible? Maybe pass off Gabriel's promise to Mary that Jesus would sit on David's throne one day and His rule would never end as maybe a Jewish conspiracy and later addition to the NT?

Go to the restroom and tidy up a bit. You spilled some anti-Semite chowder on your tie.



posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 07:59 PM
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Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free..
NT KJV



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



I'd we willing to support an Israeli/Jewish state with or without religion/blessings/curses if it meant keeping the Muslim extremists in check.


In other words, you are willing to support an anti-Christian state that rejects Jesus and calls his mother a w****.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Go to the restroom and tidy up a bit. You spilled some anti-Semite chowder on your tie.

By that logic, God and Jesus are the BIGGEST anti-semites to have ever existed.

God calls Israel a prostitute and a whore.
Jesus accuses Israel of killing their own prophets.



edit on 7-3-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 



The arrogance that comes with thinking themselves as chosen people and which is now even fueled by zionist christians who almost look up to israel with dreamy adoring eyes is the cause of injustice. The chosen status came with a covenant. Break the covenant forget the status.


Absolutely.
Israel has been guilty of breaking the covenant over and over again. The Bible itself accuses the Jews/Israel of killing their own prophets. Israel has been warned of doom and destruction, more than any other nation.... and yet, Christian Zionists believe Israel is to prevail?? Absurd.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Go to the restroom and tidy up a bit. You spilled some anti-Semite chowder on your tie.

By that logic, God and Jesus are the BIGGEST anti-semites to have ever existed.

God calls Israel a prostitute and a whore.
Jesus accuses Israel of killing their own prophets.





Hold on now. I'm not claiming Israel hasn't made mistakes. I'm pointing out that despite those mistakes the Bible speaks of her future redemption.

What about the other points put on the table?

edit on 7-3-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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People continue to trip over the same mistakes when reading the bible.
When the bible speaks of Israel, it is NOT referring to the modern day country the world calls Israel. This country did not exist until 1948. In biblical times and until 1948 this country was called Palestine.

The Israel of the bible is a people. God promised Abraham his desendants would became a 'great nation' and a 'family of nations', and these desendants were the twelve tribes of Israel, desended from Jacobs twelve sons.
(God changed Jacobs name to Israel).

Most of these twelve tribes were scattered or 'lost' throughout the worlds peoples, but eventually reached England from where they did indeed become a family of nations, (British Commonwealth countries) and a great nation (USA)

So you can see that when the bible refers to Israel, it means 'us'. All the anglo saxon/predominantly white/Christian countries all around the world.

God kept his promise to give Israel blessing by making us the richest most powerful nations on the face of the earth.
God will also keep his promise to remove his blessings from us if we reject his laws about how to live and conduct our lives.

Anyone with a pinch of common sense can see that Britian is no longer the world power it once was, and that the USA is quickly waning and loosing its once mighty influence on world affairs.

We are Israel. We have had the blessings. We are setting ourselves for the punishments, which have already started, and most of us havn't got a bloody clue.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by triune
 



The Israel of the bible is a people. God promised Abraham his desendants would became a 'great nation' and a 'family of nations', and these desendants were the twelve tribes of Israel, desended from Jacobs twelve sons.


Again, you are making the mistake of thinking that Abrahams descendants are limited to the 12 sons of Jacob.
The truth is, his descendants include Abrahams other children as well.


So you can see that when the bible refers to Israel, it means 'us'. All the anglo saxon/predominantly white/Christian countries all around the world.

White/Christian countries are of Japhethic stock. Abrahams descendants are purely semitic.
The idea of white christians are "Israel" is derived from British Israelism, i.e - Junk theology.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by triune
 


Next your going to tell me Jesus was white? ... Lol sure he was.

One of the biggest misconceptions ever is to think the races from Biblical times are Anglo Saxon white caucasions. Absolutely not that is absurd. White folks were freezing there butts off in caves way up north during these times and worshipping pagan deities... Cmon son smh



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Go to the restroom and tidy up a bit. You spilled some anti-Semite chowder on your tie
This is the "new antisemitism", calling people who are anti-zionist, antisemites, since there isn't too much real antisemitism around to criticize.
The anti-zionism, antisemitism equation is a very recent development and supports the idea that all Jews are zionists, when the most anti-zionist people out there are in fact the religious Jews, who don't see the modern so-called Israel as the work of God, but ambitious, unreligious people who decided not to wait for the Messiah, but to proclaim themselves, collectively, as the Messiah, and to go it alone, with or without God's help.
In my opinion, you are exhibiting an unchristian attitude and are playing the role of devil to accuse God's true Chosen People, those who follow Jesus, by name-calling in a way that is designed to smear those with legitimate complaints against an abhorrent system that uses religion as a cover to commit crimes deemed to be against humanity in the wake of the atrocities committed by the NAZI's in WW II.

So I suppose we should just rip Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 out of the Bible? Maybe pass off Gabriel's promise to Mary that Jesus would sit on David's throne one day and His rule would never end as maybe a Jewish conspiracy and later addition to the NT?
You mean, your particular quasi-christian cult's interpretation of those scriptures, right?
Jesus does reign, now, in fulfillment of the promise to David, according to normal (not off-shoot cults) Christian ideology.





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