Meteor or Comet Sighting - March 6 Canada - US Border

reply to post by rickymouse


I recall reading something similar about increases. I have noticed more shooting stars or small white streaks coming down and there was a very strange one I saw in the summer around august, but never mentioned on ATS. It looked like a lightbulb in the sky just dropping slowly. Some people may call that an "orb". My daughter saw it and said look up. It just looked like a very bright light falling. I was preoccupied at the time and didn't make much of it until I thought afterwards I should have kept looking. This was looking north-east. It was much bigger than a star.

Originally posted by violet
I did listen for a few minutes after it and didn't hear anything. I heard maybe a small boom, not very distinct, could have been something else unrelated.

Well it sounds like the meteor was not bright enough to penetrate deeply into the atmosphere so that booms could be heard. As a general rule, if the brightness is approaching that of 1/4 Moon (about -8 mag) it's worth listening in case there are booms.

Originally posted by violet
I forgot to say it was moving fast, not stationary in the sky as a comet passing may look like, but I'm not really sure how to tell the difference.

That is basically how you can tell the difference - movement. Although in some rare cases a meteor can appear not to move/move much (a trick of perspective if it's heading directly towards you), most meteors will appear to move across the sky noticeably, and at a high rate of knots in the majority of cases. On the other hand, since a comet is usually a long way a way (compared to a meteor), it will appear to be stationary in the sky. You can also be fairly confident that if there is a naked-eye comet visible in the sky, it will be big news and you will know about it.

Originally posted by violet
I'm sorry my explanation isn't using proper terms.

No need for an apology. I thought your description was quite good compared to some I've read. It can be quite hard to describe some aspects of meteors if you are not familiar with the sky/astronomy. Apparent brightness especially can be tricky to describe, even when you have some experience.

Originally posted by violet
I've seen a bright fireball before that had white flames. This had no flames.

By "flames" do you mean a "tail"? Or perhaps "sparks"? Some meteors will appear to throw off sparks as they fragment.

A small percentage of meteors don't appear to have tails, usually dimmer or slow moving meteors.

Originally posted by violet
It was as wide as the moon would be when the moon is high and smaller looking. It sort of looked like if you smudged the moon and dragged the smudge, like in photoshop with the smudge tool if anybody knows what I mean by that. So it wasn't a tail or a think streak line, or cone shaped, but a wide smudge or haze and then it faded.

It lasted only two seconds. Like I said it was arced as it started to go down, then more or less straight down until it disappeared.

Your description here sounds very much like what is known as a "nebulous" meteor:

Probably the most common type of AMP, nebulous meteors do not have the sharply defined contours of most meteors. Instead, they appear fuzzy, often containing several bright central nuclei.

Nebulous meteors may well be highly friable objects that undergo several stages of disintegration. Fragmentation is not unusual in meteor astronomy - about half of all fireballs show signs of fragmenting due to thermal shock and high pressures - but the various components usually spread out. In nebulous meteors they tend to keep fairly close together. However, nebulous meteors last for only a couple of seconds, at most, unlike fireballs that may take some time to cross the sky. It could be that the individual fragments of a nebulous meteor would be seen to diverge if they were to remain luminous for long enough.

Source: Anomalous Meteor Phenomena

In my experience, nebulous meteors never have tails and are usually very dim. They are also fairly rare and a bit surreal to see, so well done for having caught one Out of perhaps 11,000 meteors/fireballs I've seen, I've only seen 3 or 4 nebulous meteors.

Originally posted by violet
reply to post by rickymouse

 

I recall reading something similar about increases. I have noticed more shooting stars or small white streaks coming down and there was a very strange one I saw in the summer around august, but never mentioned on ATS. It looked like a lightbulb in the sky just dropping slowly. Some people may call that an "orb". My daughter saw it and said look up. It just looked like a very bright light falling. I was preoccupied at the time and didn't make much of it until I thought afterwards I should have kept looking. This was looking north-east. It was much bigger than a star.

If a meteor is coming towards you at a little angle, it will appear to look like it is moving slow and going sideways. If it appears like a growing spot, it may land somewhere in your locality. Most of them burn up before reaching the ground though. The chances of a remnant of a meteor hitting you dead on extremely are slim though, I wouldn't worry about it. I think millions of tiny pieces of meteors hit the ground each year and we hardly ever hear of someone getting hit. Chances are that there may be some people get hit but are doing something and get hurt thinking they got hurt somehow doing what they were doing. The whole on the roof may not have been caused by a branch nearby either, the piece of meteor may have been so small it just stopped in the insulation after going through the roof of your home. I wouldn't worry about what we cannot control. I am not afraid of walking outside.

Originally posted by rickymouse
If a meteor is coming towards you at a little angle, it will appear to look like it is moving slow and going sideways.

Or upwards/downward... a meteor can appear to move in any direction.

Originally posted by rickymouse
If it appears like a growing spot

Or a "star" that suddenly appears, brightens, then disappears.

Originally posted by rickymouse
it may land somewhere in your locality.

Only if it was observed close to the zenith (directly over your head). Remember, after the meteor phase is over, and any surviving pieces are no longer producing light, those pieces will take a ballistic trajectory - they won't carry on going straight towards you once they have been slowed down enough. High altitude winds will also tend to blow the would-be meteorite off course.

There would be a better chance if you saw a fireball traveling "upwards" towards the zenith, and the fireball "burnt out" before reaching the zenith.

Originally posted by rickymouse
The chances of a remnant of a meteor hitting you dead on extremely are slim though, I wouldn't worry about it. I think millions of tiny pieces of meteors hit the ground each year and we hardly ever hear of someone getting hit. Chances are that there may be some people get hit but are doing something and get hurt thinking they got hurt somehow doing what they were doing. The whole on the roof may not have been caused by a branch nearby either, the piece of meteor may have been so small it just stopped in the insulation after going through the roof of your home. I wouldn't worry about what we cannot control. I am not afraid of walking outside.

I agree

reply to post by FireballStorm


You are right about the third part, gravity and wind can have an effect and it may not come close at all. Unless it looks real big and bright and it is coming straight at you. Then it is possible that you may need to change your underwear.

Originally posted by rickymouse

Originally posted by violet
reply to post by rickymouse

 

I recall reading something similar about increases. I have noticed more shooting stars or small white streaks coming down and there was a very strange one I saw in the summer around august, but never mentioned on ATS. It looked like a lightbulb in the sky just dropping slowly. Some people may call that an "orb". My daughter saw it and said look up. It just looked like a very bright light falling. I was preoccupied at the time and didn't make much of it until I thought afterwards I should have kept looking. This was looking north-east. It was much bigger than a star.

If a meteor is coming towards you at a little angle, it will appear to look like it is moving slow and going sideways. If it appears like a growing spot, it may land somewhere in your locality. Most of them burn up before reaching the ground though. The chances of a remnant of a meteor hitting you dead on extremely are slim though, I wouldn't worry about it. I think millions of tiny pieces of meteors hit the ground each year and we hardly ever hear of someone getting hit. Chances are that there may be some people get hit but are doing something and get hurt thinking they got hurt somehow doing what they were doing. The whole on the roof may not have been caused by a branch nearby either, the piece of meteor may have been so small it just stopped in the insulation after going through the roof of your home. I wouldn't worry about what we cannot control. I am not afraid of walking outside.

I'm not really worried about being hit by one. I would if they were coming down like an air raid.
The description I gave of the dropping light was not August but maybe October, so this one might have been part of an annual meteor shower. Or something else. Just wanted to correct that

reply to post by FireballStorm


The nebulous meteor seems to fit the description of how it appeared. Fuzzy might be a better word than hazy.

Re the flames on the other I saw, I did mean flames like it was on fire and white. I did a thread on that one, it was a few years ago. Its not fresh in my mind now. I also posted a thread about one I saw maybe last year that was green. It too was a fuzzy smudge, but seemed stationary. Maybe that was a nebulous meteor?

Thanks for your replies it helps to know what I might have seen.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Unless it looks real big and bright and it is coming straight at you. Then it is possible that you may need to change your underwear.

Ha! That is true... but if that was the case, you wouldn't have to change your underwear as the meteor would do that for you (changed into carbonized underwear)!

reply to post by violet


You're welcome.

I think I (vaguely) remember your thread from a few years back. The white (and bright) meteor you saw may have been an Alpha Capricornid - this shower is known for slow-bright meteors/fireballs during August, but it would be impossible to say for sure, even with more details. It's difficult to positively identify meteors later. Much better to learn how to identify them when you see them - it's not hard but you'd need to learn the constellations or at least a few of them. I can give you some pointers on how to do this if you'd like...

It is possible that the green meteor you saw was a "nebulous-point" meteor, which would be a very unusual and rare beast to have observed. Perhaps though, there is a better explanation than meteor for that one, although I can't think of anything off hand right now.

reply to post by FireballStorm


I did report the white flaming fireball and checked out how to describe brightness before I submitted it. I think that one was around June or July.

Not being an astronomer its hard to tell the difference between meteors, meteorites or meteoroids. Asteroids or comets. I'm not good at constellations except I know the Orion star belt. I always see what I think is Sirius rising below that. Its very bright as it comes into view when its low

Originally posted by violet
I did report the white flaming fireball and checked out how to describe brightness before I submitted it. I think that one was around June or July.

O right - I must have misread.

Originally posted by violet
Not being an astronomer its hard to tell the difference between meteors, meteorites or meteoroids. Asteroids or comets.

You don't need to be an astronomer - it's fairly simple really.

Meteor - the light or streak we see when an object (it could be a meteoroid, asteroid, or even comet, although the last one is unlikely) enters our atmosphere.

Meteoroid - a rock in space (or within our atmosphere, but before it reaches the ground) that is smaller than 10 meters.

Asteroid - same as above, except 10 meters or larger.

Comet - Also a rock in space, but containing large amounts of frozen water/gas, so that when it approaches the Sun the gas is released, taking with it dust and small pieces of comet (micro-meteoroids/meteoroids) that make up the coma and tail/s, and give us meteor showers when Earth passes through this debris.

Meteorite - any rock from space that makes it to the ground.

Originally posted by violet
I'm not good at constellations except I know the Orion star belt.

Nor am I to be honest, but it's not so hard if you take it one at a time. For example - every meteor shower is connected with a constellation. The Perseid meteor shower in August is so named because of it's connection with the constellation Perseus, from which Perseid meteors appear to radiate away from.


Source: meteorshowersonline.com

Every meteor shower has it's own radiant - in the case of the Perseids the radiant is in Perseus.

You could start with the Orionids since you already have a good idea where Orion is, but it's a relatively weak shower compared to other major annual showers like the Perseids, which is why I'd recommend the Perseids to start off with - that and this year's Perseids (peaking on the night of the 11th/12th for you by the looks of it) is looking like it could be a stronger than average shower, not to mention you won't have to wait so long.

So pick a major shower, observe it, and you'll soon build up a basic knowledge of the constellations, one at a time. It will help to have planetarium software on your computer and/or a map of the constellations to take out with you (at least at first). Sellarium is very good software (and free), but it can be a little fiddly to set up. Sky Map was a bit less fiddly for me, but I have only used a very old version, so it might be different now, and it's not free.

You will have to put in some time observing (I personally like to spend the whole night, and recommend it if you can) and there are bound to be small frustrations at first (especially the weather clouding out your peak night!), but the reward is observing hundreds of meteors in a single night (if you catch a good year), and knowing where many of them came from.

It's also a good idea to travel to an observing site that's as free of light pollution as possible, and also offers good all round views with no major obstructions on the horizon to block your view of the sky, if you don't already live somewhere like that. Proper observing technique is essential too - use a sun-bed or camp-bed to lay flat on, plus one or two sleeping bags (depending on season/conditions) as well as layers of warm cloths (better to remove items of clothing as required than to get cold - it's easy to underestimate how cold it can get even during summer) and just look more or less straight up. If you do that, you will see much more, and your time spent will generally be more enjoyable.

All of that may seem a bit overwhelming at first, but give it a try and you'll find it's not as hard as it sounds. The weather is usually the biggest obstacle as I mentioned before. There's no easy way around the weather, so you should expect a bit of frustration unless you are lucky. The only thing you can do is plan to try again next year or next shower, although with showers like the Perseids, the nights either side of the peak night can also be quite good, so it's a good idea to plan to observe two or three nights in a row.

Originally posted by violet
I always see what I think is Sirius rising below that. Its very bright as it comes into view when its low

It sounds like you are half way there already. Get some planetarium software installed and you'll be able to see for yourself if you are right.

reply to post by FireballStorm


Where I'm living right now my view of the sky is obstructed. I'm going to be moving to a better location to do this, weather permitting to skywatch. It's where I saw the falling light thing.

There is no horizon vantage points where I live. Its all mountains. I have a better chance watching mount baker erupt, should it do that! The mountains are pretty but get in the way. I tried the sunbed viewing one hot clear summer night. I ran in when bats flew past. Its too cold outside in the winter in Canada. I'd be scared to fall asleep due to wildlife and I live near a river and mosquitoes are bad. I know that's wimpy, obviously I'm not a camping person. However you have very good tips and I'm encouraged to overcome my wimpyness in order to have a sighting.

Thank you for your replies and information.
I appreciate the time it took you to post all this

I didn't know the meteors related to constellations.

reply to post by violet


Mountains can be very good for observing if you can get up to a peak. It will be significantly colder (you may need to triple up on sleeping bags), but during the Summer you'll be able to escape the mosquitoes, and because you're at altitude most of the air pollution will be below you so you should have crystal clear skies that are ideal for observing. If they are high enough, you might even be able to get above the cloud, which will have the added benefit of stopping any light pollution from below.

Winter might be a bit too cold to observe at altitude, but your skies should be pretty good lower down anyway.

If you're worried about the wildlife, take a radio (make sure it has new batteries and/or carry a spare set) and turn up the volume - most wildlife will avoid you. I know other meteor observers that observe where there are bob-cats or cougars, and they never have any problems.

A few other tips - take at least two torches with spare batteries. It's a good idea if you have one that has a red bulb/filter/LED so that you can check your map or whatever without destroying your dark-adapted night vision. It does take your eyes a while to adapt to low light levels, so when you first start observing you won't see as much as later on when your eyes are dark-adapted. Take something to drink (definitely not alcohol and try to avoid coffee if you can - cold is best), and something to eat.

Good luck!

PS - Regarding the relationship between meteor showers and constellations - to be clear, they are not physically related, but since meteors belonging to the same shower seem to radiate away from a certain constellation (an illusion of perspective), the constellation acts as a reference point in the sky making it possible to identify shower members.

A relative got a few pictures yesterday, she is in Grand Prairie Alberta.

As I said the other day that there would be an increase in these types of events, it seems that I may be right. Yet another report of an asteroid hurtling towards earth. It should be passing I think next week or so. It won't be as close as the last was, but still it could be unnerving to some. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the media and their reporting. They may not even mention it again. But that's highly unlikely since they love a good story.

reply to post by Keron


Nice picture thank
This is most likely Comet-PanSTARRS
www.skyandtelescope.com...
apod.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by sc1981
Yet another report of an asteroid hurtling towards earth. It should be passing I think next week or so. It won't be as close as the last was, but still it could be unnerving to some.

This happens all the time, and has been doing so for a very very long time. It's only recently that we have advanced our technology enough to be able to spot small asteroids, so it's only now that we are seeing a significant part of what has been whizzing by us for eons. Sometimes they hit, but there is lots of space for them to sneak by us out there, so the vast majority don't.

If you find it unnerving, consider that if big/dangerous ones had been hitting Earth previously during the past 4000 years with any frequency, we would not be here - but we are here, and these potentially dangerous asteroids keep missing us as they have been doing. Whilst one could hit at any time, the chances are none of us will see it in our lifetimes. Most of the rocks out there are too small to do any significant damage. Just like the one that entered the atmosphere over Russia, they usually break up at high altitude.

Whilst the one over Russia was small in comparison to some of the asteroids out there, it's unlikely we will see another that big in our lifetimes, although there is a chance.

There's no point loosing any sleep over it. There is much more chance of you coming to grief from the wide range of terrestrial dangers we have here - like slipping on a wet bathroom floor or getting flattened by an 18 wheeler, etc, etc, etc...

Originally posted by sc1981
We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the media and their reporting. They may not even mention it again. But that's highly unlikely since they love a good story.

Chances are it won't get mentioned, although if it's a very slow news day it might. And if they don't, you're going to say they're covering it up, right? The truth of the matter is actually pretty boring, but it's much more exciting to speculate about potential doom coming our way, which I can understand.

For the record, I would actually love there to be an increase in the frequency of fireball class events. If there was even a hint that something like this was going on, I'd have my cameras set up before you could say "sonic-boom"! It's been 12 years since I've photographed anything brighter than a borderline fireball...

Here one nobody saw coming again
March 7, 2013 @ Valasske Mezirici, Czech Republic
spaceweather.com...

reply to post by Trillium


Your very welcome! I can not take credit for the pictures it was a cousin that took them. She did a great job of photographing!