Facility Nurse Watches Patient Slowly Die, Refuses CPR

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posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


Thank you to the several posters here who have shed the light on this situation. You, especially, have shared so much wisdom and truth.

In the late 1980's, my grandmother (about Mrs. Bayless's age) was resuscitated, suffering and hallucinating for over a week, attached to every tube and monitor possible in order to "save her life". My mother was distraught and didn't know what to do, until she pointblank asked the doctor what he would do if that were his mother. He said he would immediately stop all the treatment. She did.

The problem was, all these "life saving" treatments meant my grandmother had to linger bedridden for a year, praying everyday to die. My mother later said that her mother really died the year before she did.

After that, every death in the family has been on the terms that person would want, and not left to someone else to decide to "save a life" or, really, prolong dying.




posted on Mar, 6 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by desert
 


Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate them, as I am sure the others fighting for understanding do, as well.

I am sorry for what your family went through, but by having these experiences and sharing them, you and others may bring enlightenment to those reading these posts.

In the end, it comes down to having the individual right and freedom to make the choice to die with dignity.

Some people fear death while others embrace it and are ready to go when their time comes. Ift those people have reached that inner peace and have the strength to face it, who is anyone to interfere?

Thank you again.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 

Okay, I'm discussing the OP and story this is based on....not rumor of what this was about or how the family is coming to terms of dealing with it, after the fact.

The fact is, as of 13 hours ago (the date showing for when this article came up), authorities still confirm no DNR was in place and so couldn't have been followed by the management employee (as it turns out she misidentified herself and failed to summon medical people). The facility itself has suspended the woman and is investigating itself.


Brookdale Senior Living, which owns Glendale Gardens, initially said the employee was following company policy by waiting for first responders instead of administering medical care herself. But on Tuesday, the company released a statement saying that the employee had not understood the company's guidelines and was on voluntary leave pending an investigation.

"The incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with regards to emergency medical care for our residents," the Tennessee-based company said.



According to fire officials, Bayless did not have a "do not resuscitate" order, but that was not confirmed by the family or Glendale Gardens.

The incident not only made national headlines but also triggered several investigations. The Kern County Aging and Adult Services was looking into possible elder abuse.
Source

We seem to be debating two different incidents for the positions you're taking.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Yes, that is correct. After the original statement from the facility, which is posted early in the thread, they have backpeddaled on their position.

From the article I read, she is on voluntary leave until the facility completes their own investigation.

The police have conducted an investigation, and primarily have found no wrongdoing, but state the investigation is ongoing.

The situation is evolving, as they usually do. More information is coming out, but until it all does, there is still not enough to judge her.

I will say again, and try to make this as understandable as possible.

She had no REASON to have a DNR on file. It was not needed. She had no necessity to file a DNR with an apartment complex, no more than you, or me, or Billy Bob down the road. This is not a medical facility, and if you tried to hand them a DNR order from your doctor, they may look at you like a two headed dragon.

Instead, by choosing to LIVE there, by signing the contract, she made herself, so to speak, an understood DNR, because she knew no medical staff would be there. That the most they would do is call 911. She was fine with this.

When you move into an apartment, do you expect the manager or some other staff to come rescue you if you call the front office? They may come unlock your door to let 911 in, but I seriously doubt you expect anyone to rescue you.

And again, no one, not the media, not the family, not the facility, have spoken about an Advance Directive, otherwise known as a living will. They may have made it known, or may not. It isn't required, any more than a DNR, but it would be more understandable if she did inform them of, and provide them a copy of, her Advance Directive.

Seeing as this person was the services director, one would presume she was very active with residents, and in contact with them daily. One would also presume she had personal friendships with many. Until we know the full story, it is wholly unfair to judge the person.

I DO have questions about the 911 call, but not in the way anyone may think. I made a thread about some anomalies about the whole thing, if you care to see it.

I think a fair portion of the beginning of the call has been edited out. I think the part that was edited contains information that would change the entire light of this story. Until that information is revealed, I will continue to advocate for Ms. Bayless based on the information we have, based on her decision to live there.

I reserve any judgement on the 911 caller, specifically because some portion of that call is missing. You are welcome to read the thread, if you are interested.

In case you haven't noticed, I haven't called her a hero, or a killer. I just have no judgement. All I have done is relay facts, and advocate for Ms. Bayless.

The Lorraine Bayless Death - The Real questions you should ask

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 7-3-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-3-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 

If pissing me off is your goal, the condescension is a fine way to achieve it. I haven't talked down to you or made this personal. I disagree and have a respect issue for your POSITION, not you personally. I'm real careful to keep that distinction in these things.....asking the return isn't much.


I will say again, and try to make this as understandable as possible.

She had no REASON to have a DNR on file. It was not needed. She had no necessity to file a DNR with an apartment complex, no more than you, or me, or Billy Bob down the road. This is not a medical facility, and if you tried to hand them a DNR order from your doctor, they may look at you like a two headed dragon.

Instead, by choosing to LIVE there, by signing the contract, she made herself, so to speak, an understood DNR, because she knew no medical staff would be there. That the most they would do is call 911. She was fine with this.


Now, in the world of LAW, where is the only world we all live in and which matters, there exists no such thing as an "implied" DNR or an "understood" DNR. That flat out doesn't exist as a concept or a theory and with damn good reason. There is a fine line between allowing someone to die by their choosing ...and allowing them to die for far less noble reasons or personal inaction by inability.

You're basing everything on an "implied" DNR, which, again, is a mental invention. The law seems to agree that something isn't right here. California criminal code couldn't touch her, but the state is still investigating...as it well SHOULD be.

By the way, if you have something.. anything...other than your own personal opinions or assumptions for what this dead woman HAD wanted before the staffer watched her die, then I'd love to read it. What I linked is indicitive of what I am reading all over on this case ...and frankly.... Your're alone in what I am seeing for claiming this "implied" agreement existed in any meaningful way.


When you see a human being in distress, what is your reaction? Watch in fascination as they die? Mumble excuses to the police for why it isn't your job and your duty to help? That is what happened here. Again. NO ONE EVEN HINTED at DNR or the idea there was anything of the sort...WHILE she was dying. Only after, when it was understood that OOPS......letting her die like that wasn't cool...did all this start coming up for what the woman who did this "may" have thought or "may" have intended.

In the end, we have a patient who died. We have a staffer who let it happen and refused, to direct orders by authorities, to even summon proper medical aid, let alone render BASIC human aid as a fellow human being.

All the issues of what might have, could have or should have been.......well outside Legal framework to be binding or matter. is secondary to ONE thing.

What was THAT WOMAN thinking as she watched the patient die. What was HER motivation in letting the patient die and did THAT WOMAN know about implied DNR's? If so, why wasn't that communicated first and clearly to the Police dispatch? There is nothing that can be done to ask the victim in this case...and THAT is why DNR is *NEVER* 'implied'. It's written, clearly and without question ...or it doesn't exist. Period.

(I've PERSONALLY been down this road with family in the hospital here. I know DNR procedure and the basics of law after needing to handle it directly for my own parent, thanks though..I'll endeavor to understand)
edit on 7-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


The fartest thing from my intent was to piss you off. I am very sorry you feel that way, truky I am.

I also did not intend to come across as condescending. Once again, I am sorry you took it that way.

Seeing as that is how you are seeing my responses, when I had zero intent of anything of the like, I will bow out now. I choose to not fight with you. I thought we were having a discussion.

I sincerely apologize for offending you in any way you deem I did.

Take care.



posted on Mar, 7 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 

Oh.. now you make me feel bad for even saying anything..... It was getting a bit heated, and perhaps I mistook your comments for being harder than you meant. Let me say it's my place to apologize then, given your reply. Obviously, that is not the reply of someone in the mindset I understood it to be. My bad, my misunderstanding......

(humbly offers paw to slap)

I will be grateful at this point to agree with disagreeing though.
I'd say we both have pretty strong feelings and positions on this ....and downright emotional too. Both of us. I won't say you're wrong.....just mistaken. The former being a judgement and the latter, just my opinion. Fair enough?
edit on 7-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


I can't believe you are still going on this way. You must be one of those crusaders for death and suicide. I see you do work in a medical field and I find it terribly sad that so many in the medical field have chosen the death cult in place of the true healing arts. The woman seems to have passed herself off as a nurse when she was not, and refused to cooperate with 911 emergency personnel. I hope I never have you to deal with if I fall ill like this. I think you are way off base on this issue. There was no DNR available and no just because you live in an apartment where staff act like zombie drone robots does not make you an automatic DNR.

Furthermore who gave that faux nurse the right to determine the fate of that poor woman? I think you have some misguided idea that people have the right to arbitrarily decide who gets to live based on their age and you are calling this personal liberty?
Why would they call 911 if the emergencey personnel are going to be ignored? Your argument is completely bogus. There was no DNR or the family would produce it by now. They just acquiesced but no one has produced an actual DNR, and last I checked living in an apartment is not interchangeable with a DNR order unless it is HOSPICE. Was the woman terminal before the incident? Don't think so.



I think a fair portion of the beginning of the call has been edited out. I think the part that was edited contains information that would change the entire light of this story.


So you are going to base a medical opinion on something you think may have been omitted from the recording but you don't know what that is? Are you asserting that the 911 operator was trying to save a woman known to want to die? Because I don't know what else it could be that would support the faux nurse's actions.
And do you really know that the woman died peacefully while not being able to breath fully?
edit on 8-3-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
And do you really know that the woman died peacefully while not being able to breath fully?


My grandfather, husband of the grandmother in my prior post, proceeded her in death by keeling over into his bowl of soup, dying instantly, after coming into the house for lunch after a few hours spent working outside on his property, something he enjoyed doing.

Both my parents, and a sister, were allowed to die naturally, as was their wish. I had to return home the day before my father died, but I was present with my mother when she passed on. There is a "dying process", which many of us in this day and age are unfamiliar with. Dying, like being born, is not always pretty or what one might call "peaceful". The dying person can be kept comfortable with drugs and adjusting body positions.

Was it difficult to watch my family members go through the dying stages? Yes. Were they prepared to die? Yes. But we were prepared for this event. And to be honest, I felt like I had witnessed not a "death" but a process of passing on. Even for one who might not believe in an "afterlife", my family members' deaths were a personal and dignified end of Life.

I think the best way to live is to provide comfort to everyone, living or dying.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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being a frail 87 year old, if CPR was performed, her rib cage most likely would have cracked in multiple locations and could cause lung damage. If she had survived from the CPR, she would have died from severe rib pain and trauma to the lungs.

excellent Q&A: questions about CPR
edit on 8-3-2013 by Alchemst7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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California has a good Samaritan law.

I'm pretty sure law trumps company policy..

This nurse should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

------------------

I do have a feeling though that this facility is not going to last very much longer considering the children of the people living there are probably not too keen on their parents being left to die in an emergency.
edit on 8-3-2013 by DaMod because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 08:00 AM
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Wow. Just wow. I am a nurse. I went to school eons ago because I always wanted to be a nurse. I truly enjoy my job and am an advocate for my patients, their families, etc. I would have done EVERYTHING in my power and used EVERY tool in my arsenal to attempt to save this nice lady, regardless of the fukcing "policy". This b***** nurse needs to slowly die while bystanders do NOTHING to help HER!

I am SO SICK of these "nurses" that put policies (dreamed up and written by individuals who have never worked as a nurse, or have, but haven't been a "bedside" nurse for years) in place. It is making it VERY difficult for nurses like myself to provide the best possible care. I went into pediatrics because I was SO tired of the way seniors and adults were being treated, especially in the long term care industry, but I have found these "policy warriors" are everywhere. Just like roaches.

What type of "facility" that "cares" for seniors has a freaking policy in place that they "perform no medical services for their residents" BUT THEY EMPLOY A NURSE? Something really isn't right here. ANYONE can do CPR. The EMS can talk you through it, it is THAT simple. I really hope this woman's family sues and ends up owning this "facility". I pray the other "residents" realize what types of policies are in place and move. Quickly.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Catalyst317
 


unbelievable
my grandad was suffering from alzheimers and was mistreated by the home he was living in, he died and i found out he was being mistreated in there but my family wouldn't tell me where it was, i guess they knew i would of been doing life if i had found the owner.



posted on Mar, 11 2013 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by lovebeck
 


Maybe you should take some time and read the follow up articles before passing judgement on this nurse.



posted on Mar, 11 2013 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by lovebeck
 


I am a nurse also and I must say that if you are a nurse then based on that response you are not a nurse who is regularly involved in making decisions about CPR and DNRs. if you were then you would know that unless you yourself are in that situation and have all the facts of the situation you don’t Judge the actions of another nurse. Furthermore I think you might want to go and read up on some of the facts pertaining to this case as it is not as simple as you have made out.

I would also suggest that you go and read over the T&C’s again because your post is breaking them.





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